Meta talk:Babylon/Archives/2023

Request for permission to translate

Greetings, I'd like to translate this page: WikiLusofonia/Partnerships/Brazilian_Navy. Thank you. Luís Almeida "Tuga1143 00:02, 14 March 2023 (UTC)

Done --Ameisenigel (talk) 07:21, 14 March 2023 (UTC)

This section was archived on a request by: Ameisenigel (talk) 07:21, 14 March 2023 (UTC)

Oldest pages needing changes marked for translation (February 2023)

(excluding pages already listed above)

1. Wikimedian's Group of Mainland China, since January 6
2. Wikimedians of Tamazight User Group, since January 8
3. Wiki Loves Women/Focus Group/SheSaid Sudan, since January 11

Somewhat to my surprise, that seems to be it as far as old pages, and everything else is more recent enough that I wouldn't normally include it in one of these lists. * Pppery * _{it has begun} 16:06, 5 February 2023 (UTC)

Invitation to provide feedback about Translatable pages

The Wikimedia Foundation’s Language Team invites you to participate in a survey about Translatable pages.

I assume most of you are familiar with this feature, but we would like to hear from you whether you have used this feature or not. If you prepare wiki content for translation, coordinate translators, or provide translations, your feedback is important. The survey takes approximately 8-10 minutes to complete.

Anonymous survey link: https://wikimedia.qualtrics.com/jfe/form/SV_72K5DHW1oFa1R5Q

Please note this survey will be conducted via a third-party service, which may subject it to additional terms. For more information on privacy and data-handling, see the survey privacy statement. Nikerabbit (talk) 14:32, 21 February 2023 (UTC)

Old page version "leaking through" in the translation extension

I don't know if this is a known issue, but I found this quite weird. When a translation needs to be updated, the extension shows a text that says "This translation may need to be updated. Show differences?" You can then see a "diff" of what has changed in the text. On the left side is the old version of the original text and on the right side is the new one. But in some cases instead of the short original text on the left, I seem to see a very old version of the whole page's source code. This has happened in the Finnish and Italian versions of the ToU. I see the source code for the message box seen on this Jan 2012 English version of the page and below it the whole page's source code.

How to reproduce: Go to Terms of use/it. Open the translation extension and go to the second-to-last paragraph in section "8. DMCA Compliance" (where there are tt-tags, "If you are the owner of content..."). Open the translation and wait for the "diff" to appear. Click on the diff. kyykaarme (talk) 18:28, 23 February 2023 (UTC)

Confirmed, thanks for the bug-report.

For quick access: Here's a direct link to just that unit example, and here is the diff it should be showing. (IIUC)

From a quick search of Phabricator, I cannot see any obviously related tasks about this bug. Perhaps UOzurumba (WMF) knows of one, or can help file a task or bring it to the team's attention. Quiddity (WMF) (talk) 21:02, 23 February 2023 (UTC)

Thank you @Quiddity (WMF) for notifying me of this. I have created a bug report for this issue. @Kyykaarme; you can track progress from this phab ticket.

UOzurumba (WMF) (talk) 23:08, 23 February 2023 (UTC)

@Quiddity (WMF) & UOzurumba (WMF) Thanks! I kind of fell down the rabbit hole when I saw the old text that I then couldn't find anywhere else on Meta. kyykaarme (talk) 20:51, 24 February 2023 (UTC)

Template:AdminWelcome

Hello. Would it be possible (rather, would it be advantageous?) to convert Template:AdminWelcome to use the translate extension? There are a number of templates like that (e.g. Template:Welcome) which we may wish to convert if migrating them to the Translate extension won't break them. Thank you, —MarcoAurelio (talk) 10:46, 27 March 2023 (UTC)

@MarcoAurelio, if done, all of the existing translations would need to be verified/updated once the template is marked for translation. ─ The Aafī ^(talk) 14:00, 27 March 2023 (UTC)

Hello @TheAafi - thanks for your answer. I thought about that, but Special:PageMigration can be of help to restore them. Some are problably outdated nonetheless and could use some updating/synchronization. —MarcoAurelio (talk) 19:57, 27 March 2023 (UTC)

@MarcoAurelio, you are right. I just tried to issue markup to this template, in my sandbox area, to check with areas where I'd need help from my fellows. See User:TheAafi/sandbox. There are some links to pages which are not in Translation System and I personally feel difficult to mark them - because if they are written in a different language (while translation), the links on any translated page would not work, if they are not posted manually in a manner like [[Interwiki link to non-translatable meta-page|title in any language]] ─ The Aafī ^(talk) 23:41, 27 March 2023 (UTC)

Something like this. Do you feel this is okay? ─ The Aafī ^(talk) 23:50, 27 March 2023 (UTC)

Allow me to ping @Pols12 which knows more than me about translation syntax :-) —MarcoAurelio (talk) 11:08, 28 March 2023 (UTC)

I don’t see any major issue in Translate markup. I would only split the main text into two units, because it is pretty long.

Besides, we could improve the wikifying (use a flexbox instead of a table), but that does not concern internationalization. -- Pols12 (talk) 15:42, 29 March 2023 (UTC)

Thanks @Pols12, I have marked Template:AdminWelcome for translation (splitting it into 2 units) and imported and updated translation for Arabic sub page. @MarcoAurelio: I left the other subpages for now because a lot of extraneous stuff exists on them and it needs to be cleared off manually, even after the translations are imported successfully. ─ The Aafī ^(talk) 15:57, 29 March 2023 (UTC)

Thanks @TheAafi I'll try to restore old translations where possible (and mark them as !!FUZZY!! since some are really outdated (e.g. the 'es' one), so it's not a super high priority. Admin appointments on Meta are not everyday either :)

@Pols12: flex would be great. We could also tweak the wording of the template in the process. For example, #wikimedia-admin^connect was dead years ago, now I'm not even in the invite list. It may be better to use #wikimedia-meta^connect (which is also not that active, but it's public at least), among perhaps an update on the llinks for the important pages, etc. —MarcoAurelio (talk) 16:25, 29 March 2023 (UTC)

@MarcoAurelio, I am glad that I have been helpful. Even if we make changes to the main text now or change its format, nothing much would be lost. Tvar tagging in the markup is always helpful and even if we update the links, a single click on "confirm translation" updates link on the translated page because the tvar number remains the same. ─ The Aafī ^(talk) 16:40, 29 March 2023 (UTC)

This section was archived on a request by: ─ The Aafī ^(talk) 18:10, 17 April 2023 (UTC)

Requesting support with tricky translations

I have been crafting the pages for the Wiki Loves Living Heritage project. They contain transclusions, preloads, and a bit of scripting that may make translating more difficult. I would like to have some assistance in choosing the best practices for some tricky cases, including

• Translating a custom-made horizontal menu. How are templates translated? The page name is often used as a variable.
• How to serve rtl languages with any custom-made parts?

I might also need to be reminded of some more basic conventions in translating to make translating less error-prone (such as variables).

Thank you for your help!

Susanna Ånäs (Susannaanas) 🦜 10:15, 12 January 2023 (UTC)

• @Susannaanas: moved this from Meta:Requests for help from a sysop or bureaucrat, this is the translators forum. — xaosflux ^Talk 15:03, 12 January 2023 (UTC)

  Thank you, I just found this page myself as well. I will add specific questions here if anyone is willing to address a specific dilemma.

  • What is the best practice to link to headers on the page to maintain the links in the translation process?
  • Info: I was able to translate the transcluded menu and it worked well so far.
  • Where can I announce all the bits and pieces (such as the templates) that need translation? What is the right channel and amount of notifications per project?

  Susanna Ånäs (Susannaanas) 🦜 07:37, 13 January 2023 (UTC)

  How to serve rtl languages with any custom-made parts?

  If you use TemplateStyles, CSS should automatically be “flipped” (left and right switched) when used on RTL pages. It’s useful to double-check it on an actual RTL page, though.

  What is the best practice to link to headers on the page to maintain the links in the translation process?

  You can just use the English header names, the software automatically adds the English anchors on translated pages.

  Where can I announce all the bits and pieces (such as the templates) that need translation? What is the right channel and amount of notifications per project?

  You can create an aggregate group containing all the bits and pieces, and link it somewhere on the project page (you may use {{Help translate}}) – this is an appropriate channel and definitely not a too large amount of notifications. You may also use Special:NotifyTranslators; however, this is quite excessive as it sends notifications to all subscribed translators. In my experience, NotifyTranslators is usually used only when the translation has a deadline (e.g. a newsletter, which should be translated before distribution), not for project pages. —Tacsipacsi (talk) 10:07, 13 January 2023 (UTC)

  Thank you so much, it is really useful information!

  Now I ran into an emergency. I marked for translation two transcluded templates [1] and [2] which are sent to Listeria. This does not work (see the result: Wiki Loves Living Heritage/Inventories). I think solving the problem might require a lot of work from many people, and therefore some other workaround might be better. Can you help me switch off the translation, I have not done that. Susanna Ånäs (Susannaanas) 🦜 10:28, 13 January 2023 (UTC)

  The problem has gone away but I don't yet know why. So if nothing has been turned off yet, there is no longer need to do that. – Susanna Ånäs (Susannaanas) 🦜 11:14, 13 January 2023 (UTC)

I have an evaluation in the template Template:Wiki Loves Living Heritage/Main navigation to automatically add a submenu.

{{#ifexist: Template:{{PAGENAME}}/Sub | {{{{PAGENAME}}/Sub}} |}}

When I translate the page, I create Wiki_Loves_Living_Heritage/Elements/fi and that evaluation no longer reads "Elements". Is there a way to continue using this method with translation or do I need to hard-code the values?

– Susanna Ånäs (Susannaanas) 🦜 12:46, 13 January 2023 (UTC)

i.e. is there a way to reference the untranslated page in MediaWiki syntax

Wiki_Loves_Living_Heritage/Elements/fi --> Elements, not fi? Susanna Ånäs (Susannaanas) 🦜 13:55, 13 January 2023 (UTC)

OK, I found {{#titleparts: {{FULLPAGENAME}} | 2 }}/Sub so this is solved. Susanna Ånäs (Susannaanas) 🦜 04:57, 14 January 2023 (UTC)

Next up. I would like to create paginated files for long Listeria results. I would like there to be a master page that is translated and transcluded subsections that are automatically translated as they receive their translated values from Wikidata. I am planning to use numbered files for the list parts, arranged hierarchically under the master page, and use parser functions to create the menu. However, I cannot bend my mind around how to create the combination files and link to them. I wonder if Lua (which I don't master at least not yet) could solve it or if the problem is more fundamental. – Susanna Ånäs (Susannaanas) 🦜 05:09, 14 January 2023 (UTC)

1. You will find some advices at Meta:Internationalization guidelines.
2. Tvar names must be unique inside a same unit, but you may reuse the same name in different units in the same page. Having the name "1" as first tvar in the unit allows to make keyboard shortcut and tvar name consistent for translators.
3. When you edit a template, it may take a while for pages to be updated (“purged”). When you mark a template for translation this may take a more time again.

About your last issue, I don’t understand what you call “files”. Are they media on Commons? -- Pols12 (talk) 16:45, 14 January 2023 (UTC)

1. Thank you again for the very useful advice!
2. This is good to know. I wonder if I should now keep them once I have created them and not change. I assume it would confuse the existing translations.
3. Good to know, no need to panic immediately.
4. I meant to say "paginated pages" or "pagination" instead of "paginated files". Sorry for that. I already created them in https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wiki_Loves_Living_Heritage/Elements but it would be great if the subpages would not need to be translated. There's nothing more to translate than what has already been translated in the first/parent page. The subpages will automatically be translated if the page has been marked for translation.

Susanna Ånäs (Susannaanas) 🦜 14:40, 15 January 2023 (UTC)

If you change the tvar names, all translations must be updated. It is maybe not worthwhile, indeed.

Actually, Elements/2 is not transcluded in Elements, so I’m still not sure to understand what you want. Be that as it may, the best pattern is probably to make subpages translatable, and they will be transcluded in the right language in parent page, as templates are. We can reverse this process with some hack like {{Tunit}} (which can transclude a unit from another page), but it is a bit costly and it does not support tvar. -- Pols12 (talk) 15:18, 15 January 2023 (UTC)

Currently Elements/2 is not transcluded in Elements but separate page. Would it be ok to mark it for translation even if there's nothing to translate, only language-aware content? Or would the page need to be transcluded in order to be "told" to display in the chosen language? – Susanna Ånäs (Susannaanas) 🦜 06:17, 16 January 2023 (UTC)

We can mark the page with only the page title as a unit, but each translation page will still need to be manually created (translating the page title). For this purpose, just add an empty <translate></translate> tag pairs somewhere, then you’ll be able to mark the page for translation. -- Pols12 (talk) 22:45, 16 January 2023 (UTC)

Thank you, I have a feeling this already solves the challenge! – Susanna Ånäs (Susannaanas) 🦜 15:32, 17 January 2023 (UTC)

I must pause the translation of the main pages, changes are expected. How can I do that? How can I help rearrange existing translations after restart if text has been moved to another place? – Susanna Ånäs (Susannaanas) 🦜 10:38, 18 January 2023 (UTC)

1. You can discourage translation from Special:PageTranslation (do not remove from translation, only discourage).
2. When you move some text, keep the unit marker (<!--T:xx-->) along with the text.
   • Unit markers must be followed with a unique white space (space or new line); except for heading where the marker is after a space character at the end of the line.
   • A marker must follow an empty line (two new line characters) or an opening translate tag; except for heading where the empty new line is before the heading line (since the marker is at end of the line).
   • Remove the marker if the content has significantly changed: a new marker will be automatically re-added while marking the page.
   • Be careful a misplaced marker would switch unit contents.

--Pols12 (talk) 13:35, 18 January 2023 (UTC)

Big thanks! <3 – Susanna Ånäs (Susannaanas) 🦜 06:56, 20 January 2023 (UTC)

I need to move content to another page. Is there any way to keep the existing translations? They are not that many, but some exist, and asking to do the work again is not nice. – Susanna Ånäs (Susannaanas) 🦜 09:42, 5 February 2023 (UTC)

@Susannaanas, we can move all translations along a whole page. However, we cannot only move some units. The best way to proceed to move some units from A to B:

1. To copy A content to B.
2. To mark B for translation.
3. To imports translations using translation memory: since the content is identical, it will display a “100%” matching score.
4. Finally to remove content from A, and to mark it for translation.

To preserve translation memory, don’t remove content from A before translations have been imported to B. -- Pols12 (talk) 15:07, 5 February 2023 (UTC)

That still leaves a problem with already having content in B and consequently duplicate unit markers. I need to shuffle content between the three main pages, and the main navigation and the submenus. I have the impression that I will need to apologize to the people who have already translated them. – Susanna Ånäs (Susannaanas) 🦜 15:32, 5 February 2023 (UTC)

Indeed, while copying the text, you need to remove unit markers. They will be automatically re-added at step 2 (by translation admin). -- Pols12 (talk) 15:43, 5 February 2023 (UTC)

I get that. I could also manually add existing translations from the old page to the new one, if the translations cannot follow the text to the other page. – Susanna Ånäs (Susannaanas) 🦜 15:49, 5 February 2023 (UTC)

Yes, in all cases, this is a manual action. But translation memory (suggestions on the right side) is really helpful. -- Pols12 (talk) 15:59, 5 February 2023 (UTC)

I have a new concern. I have managed to have a permanent discouraged status for a few pages by doing things in the wrong place. These pages show up as discouraged, and I cannot change that:

• Wiki Loves Living Heritage
• Wiki Loves Living Heritage/About
• Wiki Loves Living Heritage/Join

Susanna Ånäs (Susannaanas) 🦜 09:59, 28 February 2023 (UTC)

@Susannaanas, if you want to restore translation for these few pages, just scroll through Special:PageTranslation and click "restore" button that you'd getting below a specific page. ─ The Aafī ^(talk) 13:38, 28 February 2023 (UTC)

The thing is that they do not appear in that list anymore. I have removed them in a wrong way, by removing them from the list in https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:AggregateGroups and adding there again. (Bug, I presume) – Susanna Ånäs (Susannaanas) 🦜 16:10, 14 March 2023 (UTC)

@Susannaanas, I was able to locate Wiki Loves Living Heritage and Wiki Loves Living Heritage/Join and I have restored translation for them. The other page has some pending changes. ─ The Aafī ^(talk) 16:25, 14 March 2023 (UTC)

@Susannaanas, done for the other one as well. It is hard to locate pages in a list of so many pages. Wiki Loves Living Heritage related pages are around from number 5060 on Special:PageTranslation's "Pages in translation" section. ─ The Aafī ^(talk) 16:29, 14 March 2023 (UTC)

Wonderful, big thanks!! Susanna Ånäs (Susannaanas) 🦜 19:10, 14 March 2023 (UTC)

Category subs for Wikimania 2023 (request)

I wish we can organize Wikimania related pages in one place, esp those related to the coming one in August 2023. Pages translated regardless of /lang-code suffix, including /ja, can be a sub to Category:Wikimania 2023. Is it feasible? Category:Wikimania 2023/ja baits as a redlink, not helpful at all. Omotecho (talk) 06:00, 18 March 2023 (UTC)

@Omotecho: Hi, normally when translations are going to be many, and a category similarly to be used on several pages that are in translation - the general practice is that we mark the categories for translation as well. This could be noticed by seeing {{#translation:}} right next to the category names on any such page. Once such a page is translated into any language, the category on the translated page appears in red because it does not exist but it does not mean the category cannot be created. ─ The Aafī ^(talk) 06:24, 18 March 2023 (UTC)

Thank you for swift reply, wow, you are so crisp!

Then creating /ja category under the larger category is up to who? No bot task? I love tree structure of infos and pages.

Or any threshold of page numbers when Category:Wikimania/lang-code be collected/syphoned as sub to main category?

Honestly, whenever I have to push menu tabs to move between Wikimania pages, I feel foolish. Categories saves not only time but gives extra cents to read related pages. Or promote new opportunities among peers in my case, and indicate the category, or bins of infos are organized.

Am I too wikipedia minded? — Omotecho (talk) 08:27, 18 March 2023 (UTC)

@Omotecho, I'd honestly say yes and it could be something added to the loads of @FuzzyBot. However, I'd want to hear from my mentor translation admins like @Ameisenigel - who happen to be associated with the Wikimania this year. ─ The Aafī ^(talk) 13:53, 18 March 2023 (UTC)

Category:Wikimania 2023 currently contains only one page (Wikimania 2023). If we do not expect more pages, I see little value in making the category translatable and it might be more helpful to categorize all translated versions in Category:Wikimania 2023 as well. On the other hand I am not using categories that much, so I do not have a strong opinion on it. --Ameisenigel (talk) 15:03, 18 March 2023 (UTC)

• The common pattern for categorization of translation pages is “keep translation pages in distinct categories, a category per language”. As The Aafi said, #translation: magic word has been designed for this purpose. So, we should mark Category:Wikimania 2023 for translation.
• However, the guidelines about category states: Try to keep the number of categories on Meta-Wiki as low as possible. So, we should not have a category for only one page (Wikimania 2023). Wikimania pages are expected to locate at Wikimania wiki. I am inclined to delete that category in favor of general Category:Wikimania. But I’m not aware of what pages will be created about Wikimania here at Meta-Wiki.

-- Pols12 (talk) 15:59, 18 March 2023 (UTC)

@Pols12, @TheAafi and @Ameisenigel, thank you coming to discuss, and yes,

I guess a reader at Meta for Wikimania 2923 will somehow find 2023:Wikimania/ja. Category grouping will happen over there I cross my fingers. Cheers, Omotecho (talk) 18:43, 18 March 2023 (UTC)

Move request

Please move Ombudsman commission/2019/CU Global Procedure on information disclosure with its translations and subpages to Ombuds commission/2019/CU Global Procedure on information disclosure. It was left behind when the OC was renamed in 2020. — JJMC89 (T·C) 01:17, 9 May 2023 (UTC)

@JJMC89, Commanded. It might take some time. ─ The Aafī ^(talk) 02:35, 9 May 2023 (UTC)

This section was archived on a request by: ─ The Aafī ^(talk) 02:44, 9 May 2023 (UTC)

Quick translation into ja, ru, zh, pt, fa, and id

Hello, all, I need translations for a very short phrase:

Choose your language.

That's all. The translation should be short and idiomatic. For example, in German, I settled on Sprache wählen ("to choose your language", which implies "Click here to choose your language").

@SGrabarczuk (WMF) and I are putting together a message to remind editors that the user interface language can be changed to their preferred language in Special:GlobalPreferences. We've got a handful of translations already, and I'm hoping to add Japanese, Russian, Chinese, Portuguese, Persian, and Indonesian to the list.

Thank you for helping us.

Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 22:35, 28 March 2023 (UTC)

@Whatamidoing (WMF): Do you need it for Spanish as well? I don't see it in translatewiki.net. —MarcoAurelio (talk) 23:15, 28 March 2023 (UTC)

I have "Elige tu idioma" for Spanish. (This is a one-time thing, and we only need the ~12 most common languages in the movement, so we're assembling the translations off line for now.) Whatamidoing (WMF) (talk) 17:56, 29 March 2023 (UTC)

Wikimedia CEE Spring 2023

Hi everybody! Could someone of translation admins update the page Template:Wikimedia CEE Spring 2023 Article Lists by Country/en from Template:Wikimedia CEE Spring 2023 Article Lists by Country? There is a couple of mistakes and the event is ongoing. Jarash (talk) 17:04, 17 April 2023 (UTC)

@Jarash, I have marked the page for translation. The changes in the base page should have reflected on all of the translated pages. ─ The Aafī ^(talk) 18:10, 17 April 2023 (UTC)

This section was archived on a request by: ─ The Aafī ^(talk) 10:25, 20 May 2023 (UTC)

Help:Special page

Help:Special page has been broken due to an update-edit by PK2. I would appreciate if someone fixes this. Thanks ─ The Aafī ^(talk) 06:29, 27 May 2023 (UTC)

Yes, I have seen. Actually, the local direction is to move all technical help page to MediaWiki.org, so I don’t want to take time to restore translatability, since another content will need to be translated on MediaWiki.org, and this local page will be removed. Pols12 (talk) 12:22, 28 May 2023 (UTC)

This section was archived on a request by: ─ The Aafī ^(talk) 11:47, 14 June 2023 (UTC)

Superfluous Tech News translations

Hei hei! I've noticed that each week, the same strings in the Tech News are marked for translation even though they're duplicates of previous installments. Wouldn't it make sense to put these under Common messages or something similar? I'm mainly referring to the section headers, credits, the new version notice, and the introductory description. What do y'all think? EdoAug (talk) 12:49, 2 July 2023 (UTC)

Unfortunately, we cannot use the template feature because the Tech News are delivered through MassMessage. That would require either global templates or MassMessage to be able to expand templates before copying the messages on target pages. -- Pols12 (talk) 16:09, 2 July 2023 (UTC)

Oh, bummer. I see the phab entry hasn't received a lot of updates, either. Oh well! EdoAug (talk) 16:20, 2 July 2023 (UTC)

Stop notifying translators who have been inactive for years

Greetings,

This is an update for administrators and translators who utilize the translation notification system to inform or stay informed about new pages available for translation.

To reduce unnecessary notifications, we are implementing a script that will unsubscribe translators who have been inactive or blocked for over a year. Inactive translators are those who haven't made any contributions to any of the Wikimedia sites. Unsubscribed translators will receive a notification informing them that they have been unsubscribed.

Here are the statistics as of June 27th, 2023:

1. MediaWiki:

• Total translators signed up for notifications: 325
• Inactive translators: 188
• Blocked translators: 8

2. Meta-Wiki:

• Total translators signed up for notifications: 3461
• Inactive translators: 2151
• Blocked translators: 18

We're planning to run the script on Monday, July, 3rd, 2023. For more detailed information or to leave any feedback that you might have, please refer to the related Phabricator task: [1]https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T323192

Thank you for your attention.

Regards,

Language Engineering Team

Wikimedia Foundation APatro (WMF) (talk) 08:06, 28 June 2023 (UTC)

@APatro (WMF), Fabulous! ─ The Aafī ^(talk) 09:16, 28 June 2023 (UTC)

The script was run on Meta-Wiki and MediaWiki. You can find the statistics here: https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T323192#8984427

We will be running this script quarterly.

Thanks for your input!

Regards,

Abijeet patro APatro (WMF) (talk) 09:34, 4 July 2023 (UTC)

Issues finding information about date formatting using {{#time:}}

Hei hei! I've tasked myself with translating the Tech News into Norwegian bokmål, but I seem to have issues finding documentation on how to correct the date formatting used in i.e. {{#time:$defaultformat|$date3|$format_language_code}}. Could anyone guide me to the right place? For transparency, it translates the months and such correctly, but a period is missing ("4. juli", not "4 juli"). EdoAug (talk) 10:52, 4 July 2023 (UTC)

Actually, I don’t think having the $defaultformat and $format_language_code parameters in this translation unit is a good idea, especially not the former one: that’s what specifies the format used for the language, and the format contained in the parameter is rarely a good choice in any language other than English. The documentation for the format is at mw:Help:Extension:ParserFunctions##time, I think you need {{#time:j. F|$date3|nb}} → 4. juli. (Using the $date3 parameter is useful and important, as that makes it possible to copy and paste the translation across weeks without modifications.) —Tacsipacsi (talk) 20:15, 4 July 2023 (UTC)

It works great, you're a star! I'm curious as to what $defaultformat and $format_language_code are variables for, and what they result in. 🤔 Is there any way to test or see that without publishing the translation? It's not the first time I've wanted to see the results of a variable that's undocumented (from what I can tell). EdoAug (talk) 21:13, 4 July 2023 (UTC)

I don’t think there’s any better way than looking at the English page’s source code and searching for <tvar name="variablename">variablecontent</tvar>. —Tacsipacsi (talk) 22:10, 4 July 2023 (UTC)

In most cases (not this one), tvars should not be overridden. Please ping the translation admin who marked the page (or leave a message here), when you meet such an issue, in order they can fix it, eventually removing the tvar or adding a qqq documentation which will help other translators too. 🙂 -- Pols12 (talk) 09:31, 5 July 2023 (UTC)

What is the correct way to translate some paragraphs?

There are many articles where stubs and complete articles exist in different languages. What is the corrcet way to translate just some missing paragraphs? IPPON01 (talk) 06:48, 31 July 2023 (UTC)

@IPPON01 this page is mostly about using the translate extension where one project has multiple languages, it sounds like you want to translate content from one project to another (e.g. a page on the French Wikipedia to the Dutch Wikipedia). In that case, the beta feature Content translation may be able to assist you. — xaosflux ^Talk 10:27, 31 July 2023 (UTC)

Late Tech/News translation

Hi! I noticed that the Tech/News weren't prepared for translation at the expected time, and while I assumed there were simply no edition this week, one was posted on the Norwegian (bokmål) Wikipedia in English. How would I go about switching this out with a freshly translated Norwegian edition, as I can't access the source on the translated version? EdoAug (talk) 00:26, 1 August 2023 (UTC)

@EdoAug Hi. You can copy the translated text from the "View source" page of the translation, which I usually access via going to the History page and changing the URL from action=history to action=edit. I.e. Here's the source for the bokmål translation.

Re: timing - Sorry about that. It can vary a lot within a ~12 hour span depending on who is looking after the edition each week, and when they get to that task during their workday (i.e. It's usually a lot earlier when my European colleagues are doing it! I'm on the Canadian west coast, so consistent-timing is complicated). Per Tech/News/For contributors#The deadlines we try to get the page "ready for translation" during our Thursdays and "frozen" on Fridays, and then send it during our Mondays. I've been doing it later in my day recently because more urgent things are often occurring in my mornings, but 15:00 UTC is the official sending-time. I hope that context helps! Quiddity (WMF) (talk) 01:16, 1 August 2023 (UTC)

@Quiddity (WMF): Thank you for a swift reply, I have swapped the languages now! Thanks for showing me how to access the source text, should I miss the translation window again. 😎 EdoAug (talk) 01:34, 1 August 2023 (UTC)

Translating the sidebar...?

Hei hei! I've been scratching my head around this for a while, but where would I go to edit or add translations for the Meta-Wiki sidebar/menu? EdoAug (talk) 14:25, 2 September 2023 (UTC)

Hi @EdoAug, I guess you are asking about the news and other parts that appear on the main page. The news section comes from {{Main Page/WM News}} and other parts include {{Main Page/Requests}}, {{Main Page/Community and communication}} and {{Main Page/Core issues and collaboration}}. You can take a look at these pages. Let me know if I missed anything. ─ The Aafī ^(talk) 14:56, 2 September 2023 (UTC)

Hey, @TheAafi! Thank you for these, but I'm talking about the menu that appears below the logo in the slightly older Vector skin (default skin?). EdoAug (talk) 18:09, 2 September 2023 (UTC)

Ahh I see @EdoAug. Do you refer to the blue links that appear below the logo? These begin with Main page, Wikimedia News, and have links to other sister projects at the end. I believe this is part of the interface and should be translatable through translatewiki. @Pols12 might have some better ideas on this. ─ The Aafī ^(talk) 08:03, 3 September 2023 (UTC)

The sidebar is defined in MediaWiki:sidebar; the strings after the pipes (and the strings in the top-level list items) are the names of the MediaWiki messages used for translation: MediaWiki:navigation, MediaWiki:mainpage-description, MediaWiki:wikimedianews-text etc. Some of these are translatable on Translatewiki, others are local and can be translated only by local admins and interface admins. (If you find a message on Translatewiki, translations done there are likely to be reflected here; if you don’t, then it needs to be translated locally.) —Tacsipacsi (talk) 10:50, 3 September 2023 (UTC)

I'm not having luck finding the messages on translatewiki, sadly! I will try to search further, but I suppose they'll be left half-translated until further notice. Thank you for the info, though! EdoAug (talk) 11:18, 3 September 2023 (UTC)

Your’re not the first one to ask the question, so I have created Meta:Sidebar to provide links to translations. I hope that helps… 🙂 -- Pols12 (talk) 16:37, 3 September 2023 (UTC)

This is great! Thank you for this! EdoAug (talk) 19:18, 3 September 2023 (UTC)

MinT, a new translation assitance: do you evaluate it high/low?

Talk:MinT page on Metawiki is collecting input from translators/users of MinT. What is your first reaction applying MinT for the language pair you usually work on?

MinT has been introduced, and I see it critically, like not applying wiki markup or grammatical errors so frequent for en-ja translation. When you work on translation via "translate" button on multilingual pages:

• MinT replaces bold markup ''' to plain " in my tasks, and I need to manually clear the mess....
• it seems to me translators are not rewarded with the translation database any more, or the fixed expressions in Meta jargons are no more available on the right window.

Am I missing something, like on Preference setting or something? Omotecho (talk) 07:53, 30 September 2023 (UTC)

I've noticed MinT suggestions when I've translated from English to Norwegian Bokmål usually containing grammatical issues, weird translations (such as the unfortunate "ethnic gangs" from "ethnic groups", and "foreigners" from "strangers"), and some strange typos and conjugations. I've also noticed some strange occurrences of Chinese letters when markup is included..? I generally just write from scratch instead of using the machine translation tools, as they're all (primarily Apertium and MinT) a bit wonky with text longer than a couple of words, and especially with more technical terms. EdoAug (talk) 14:43, 30 September 2023 (UTC)

May I call MinT, an improved version of Google Translate? Some times meaning of a word changes when used in a different scenario. I haven't used MinT but feel it is a "bit improved" but it doesn't solve the problem to any good extent. ─ The Aafī ^(talk) 17:58, 30 September 2023 (UTC)

For my language, Google Translate usually provides better suggestions, though it's a language that's closer to English than i.e. Japanese or Urdu, which might affect it? EdoAug (talk) 19:56, 30 September 2023 (UTC)

We are aware of the issue with wikitext handling that affects the quality of the translation suggestions. That's tracked in https://phabricator.wikimedia.org/T347018 Nikerabbit (talk) 08:31, 3 October 2023 (UTC)

Awkward, no?

I haven't noticed this previously but this is the second time I am seeing that when I mark pages for translation, edits are not autopatrolled even though my account has the flag. Previously it was here. Is this common or is it just me facing this? ─ Aafi @ DCW (^talk) 11:58, 14 November 2023 (UTC)

I have experienced this as well (in different wikis). --Ameisenigel (talk) 20:07, 14 November 2023 (UTC)

Searching Phabricator, I see a similar looking bug-report from 14 months ago at phab:T315708 (that was apparently resolved). I'll mention this thread there, in case the cause is the same. Quiddity (WMF) (talk) 22:37, 14 November 2023 (UTC)

Okay. I see @Pols12 has created a task for this at phab:T351273. ─ The Aafī ^(talk) 19:19, 16 November 2023 (UTC)

We backported a fix, but we weren't able to understand how patrolling works here (I see no indication what is or isn't patrolled anywhere) to verify that it works properly. Can anyone confirm? Nikerabbit (talk) 19:51, 16 November 2023 (UTC)

Hi @Nikerabbit: Edits like this are not "autopatrolled". Such edits come from translation administrators whose edits by default should be "autopatrolled". See Special:ListGroupRights ─ The Aafī on Mobile (^talk) 20:09, 16 November 2023 (UTC)

Looks it has worked. See this. ─ The Aafī ^(talk) 20:17, 16 November 2023 (UTC)

this was just two days ago. This appears to be sorted now. At least for me. As I can see. ─ The Aafī ^(talk) 20:18, 16 November 2023 (UTC)

This section was archived on a request by: Ameisenigel (talk) 07:18, 21 November 2023 (UTC)

Useless aggregate groups

Hi,

Aggregate groups are not categories: they are designed to provide an easy way to translate all related messages as a batch. Since I don’t think someone would want to translate a batch of all templates, or a batch of all user sandboxes, so I propose to remove the following aggregate groups: Templates, ¤ User requested, ¤ User sandboxes, Categories (translations of categories are often deleted as empty categories).

Ping Chrumps who populates them.

-- Pols12 (talk) 22:21, 4 October 2023 (UTC)

I just saw a benefit for those aggregate groups: included pages are grouped together in Special:LanguageStats. I don’t use that special page myself. I would like to get other translators or T-admins feedback before processing the removing… -- Pols12 (talk) 11:16, 15 October 2023 (UTC)

Small Translation Request

Hi Translation Team, please could I beg a favour from you to translate the small text/invite found on this page?
Thank you very much :) Screener Invite --Danny Benjafield (WMDE) (talk) 09:00, 3 November 2023 (UTC)

@Danny Benjafield (WMDE) You may also post to translators-l. Pols12 (talk) 13:32, 3 November 2023 (UTC)

-- Hi again! Since the last round of translations, I had to make a few small additions to the text. Could I beg for them to be marked for translation? The Link again: Screener Invite --Danny Benjafield (WMDE) (talk) 16:54, 14 November 2023 (UTC)

@Danny Benjafield (WMDE), Done. ─ The Aafī ^(talk) 17:25, 14 November 2023 (UTC)

Thank you! Danny Benjafield (WMDE) (talk) 19:19, 14 November 2023 (UTC)

This section was archived on a request by: ─ The Aafī ^(talk) 02:36, 6 December 2023 (UTC)

Simple language translations

Seeking the opinion of translators and translation administrators about the value in allowing "/simple" translations in the Translation: namespace. There has been a recent plethora of these happening and essentially they have been deleted. If it is determined that they are of little true value, then we can essentially shut these down from being edited, or we can put a high bar on who can edit them with the use of abuse filters. This should only really occur with some sort of consensus of the community. Thanks.  — billinghurst sDrewth 01:47, 19 November 2023 (UTC)

If we have simple Wikipedia, I believe we should allow simple translations as well but not at the cost of vandalism. ─ The Aafī ^(talk) 04:58, 19 November 2023 (UTC)

I second @Billinghurst opinion, yesterday I deleted something more than 200 "translations" that were in some case identical to the English source, and otherwise a mix of foreign words, mainly Spanish and Esperanto. Simple English has quite clear definitions, copying and modifying "on the fly" hundreds of pages results in offering a bastardized language that is neither useful nor adheres to any recognized standard. I agree in setting a filter or a semi-protection, at least until this way of producing translation is ceased. To better understand the problem, please see a sample of public logs at https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Log&page=Translations%3AWikimedia+Foundation%2F1%2Fsimple and https://meta.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Log&page=Translations%3AWikimedia+Foundation%2F26%2Fsimple . Please note that I have updated to current status the documentation about speedy deletion policy, in Meta:Deletion_policy, check and amend the newly added Translations section and then mark for translation the updated version. Thanks, --M/ (talk) 09:25, 19 November 2023 (UTC)

I'm not opposed to /simple translations in general, but recently there have been lots of instances of /simple „translations“ which were just like M7 described. @1234qwer1234qwer4 deleted hundreds of them, I deleted dozens of similar pages as well. I would support setting up an abuse filter to only permit fairly experienced users to do such translations (same applies for /es-419 in my opinion). Johannnes89 (talk) 11:19, 19 November 2023 (UTC)

Note that (as already mentioned in my deletion summaries too) Special:AbuseFilter/328, by @Minorax, already effectively disallows the edits to the translated pages that (usually automatically) result from translation unit edits/creations in this and similar "languages", for non-autopatrolled users. To me it makes little sense if editing the units is permitted when editing the translated pages is not. ~~~~
User:1234qwer1234qwer4 (talk) 12:41, 19 November 2023 (UTC)

Filter 328 is a tag-only filter for now. I have no objections if anyone else wants to change its settings. --Minorax^«¦talk¦» 13:37, 19 November 2023 (UTC)

Interesting; I wonder why the translations don't get "published" (on the main translated page) then (and was also wondering that when I deleted anther batch of such translations on Commons, where there did not appear to be such a filter, but the same could be observed). ~~~~
User:1234qwer1234qwer4 (talk) 22:38, 19 November 2023 (UTC)

Comment re AF/328, autopatrol is not a low bar here for casual translations, so probably valid and easy way to mention those language variations. I would think that we could generate a custom message, and I think that we can probably language implement it through Mediawiki error messages with /simple, etc. subpages.  — billinghurst sDrewth 21:52, 20 November 2023 (UTC)

Comment I have blocked User:2605:8D80:0:0:0:0:0:0/32 for 3 months from editing in the Translations: namespace They have been there in the /simple space again undertaking the same actions where other administrators have been undertaken deletion of those translations.  — billinghurst sDrewth 00:11, 25 November 2023 (UTC)

Thanks for the figuring out the range. ~~~~
User:1234qwer1234qwer4 (talk) 14:01, 26 November 2023 (UTC)

And thanks for the reminder, as I did wish to check more thoroughly, and I have managed to lessen the range to a /37.  — billinghurst sDrewth 21:00, 26 November 2023 (UTC)

Comment User is back at a different range. I have stepped up the existing filter to be a warning with a custom message => MediaWiki:Abusefilter-warning-unnecessary-translation talking about essential translations only.  — billinghurst sDrewth 00:48, 3 December 2023 (UTC)

I wasn't aware of this diskussion, thanks to TheAafi for notifying! Without owning CU or global rights I found 1 account and 27 IPs, yesterday listed here. I blocked two IPv6 ranges for 6 months on Commons' ns Translations and deleted all of the pages they did create. --Achim55 (talk) 09:17, 5 December 2023 (UTC)

Agreed that these are not needed here or at outreach:, where I have imported the MediaWiki message and copied and pasted the filter. —Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 10:33, 5 December 2023 (UTC)

given the crosswiki activities of these IPs, we should probably consider using Special:AbuseFilter/328 as a global filter? Johannnes89 (talk) 16:15, 5 December 2023 (UTC)

It is a pretty limited subset of wikis, so I would say YES, though conditional on us specifying which wikis we are including.  — billinghurst sDrewth 20:56, 5 December 2023 (UTC)

Good to go things on observing now. I agree with @Billinghurst ─ The Aafī ^(talk) 02:36, 6 December 2023 (UTC)

So to be specific, we are looking to implement AF/328 as a global filter, though add a condition that means that this filter only impacts

• metawiki
• mediawikiwiki
• outreachwiki
• commonswiki

Any others considered worthwhile?  — billinghurst sDrewth 20:55, 6 December 2023 (UTC)

I've seen some of these simple translations on foundationwiki as well if I remember correctly. Johannnes89 (talk) 10:55, 10 December 2023 (UTC)

I just deleted a bunch on wikimania and we have had previous issues on wikispecies if I recall correctly --DannyS712 (talk) 01:01, 17 December 2023 (UTC)

I've enabled Special:AbuseFilter/328 globally for those wikis mentioned. Johannnes89 (talk) 19:26, 17 December 2023 (UTC)

This section was archived on a request by: ─ The Aafī ^(talk) 08:07, 2 January 2024 (UTC)

Misplaced /krc translations

Recently user @Къарачайлы submitted a large amount of translations in the Karachay-Balkar language; however, the latest 40 or so edits have been saved under the /ru language tag; i.e. by replacing the Russian translations. I had to revert these, but I'm sure these are good-faith edits; so I wonder whether somebody could save copy these translations to the corresponding /krc units? ~~~~
User:1234qwer1234qwer4 (talk) 14:05, 26 November 2023 (UTC)

Thanks @Kaganer for handling this. ~~~~
User:1234qwer1234qwer4 (talk) 22:22, 28 November 2023 (UTC)

This section was archived on a request by: ─ The Aafī ^(talk) 08:06, 2 January 2024 (UTC)

Pending translations

Hi. I made some additions to the page I created, but there is no update button for the translation yet. Do I have to wait for someone to review it before I start translating? Kurmanbek ^💬 19:10, 6 December 2023 (UTC)

@Kurmanbek, can you please share the link? The changes need to be marked for translation, after which the changed version can be translated. ─ The Aafī on Mobile (^talk) 19:16, 6 December 2023 (UTC)

Hi @AafiOnMobile!

1. Istanbul Bilgi University Wikipedia Student Club
2. Istanbul Bilgi University Wikipedia Student Club/Activities
3. Istanbul Bilgi University Wikipedia Student Club/Members
4. Istanbul Bilgi University Wikipedia Student Club/News

Kurmanbek ^💬 19:24, 6 December 2023 (UTC)

@Kurmanbek, Done. ─ The Aafī ^(talk) 19:34, 6 December 2023 (UTC)

This section was archived on a request by: ─ The Aafī ^(talk) 08:04, 2 January 2024 (UTC)

Please help fix the following pages

I added translation and language tags to the following pages:

1. Wikimedia Community User Group Madagascar
2. Wiki Editoras Lx
3. Wikimedia Community User Group Sénégal

and then selected English as the priority language to be translated, as the pages are originally written in another language. However when I saved, the page was marked for translation, but the page then shows English as the default language of the page, which is incorrect. How do I fix this? - DNdubane (WMF) (talk) 08:53, 11 December 2023 (UTC)

Translatable page source language should be changed prior to marking the page for translation using Special:PageLanguage/. You may need to remove the page from translation to change the language now. At least there isn't any code to automatically move related pages to correct places. Nikerabbit (talk) 12:02, 11 December 2023 (UTC)

Doing... ─ The Aafī ^(talk) 17:22, 11 December 2023 (UTC)

@DNdubane (WMF): The pages are too big to be fixed in one go. I have taken some time to work on the first page. I have some observations:

• Please make sure you check with changing the page-source language from the "Page information" tab, for example, this.
• Please make sure that you do not bundle and wrap entire page in just one pair of translate tags like you did here, here, and here - I mean with all the three pages. We need to split the page into several translation units per convenience. The smaller the unit, the better the convenience. Categories should not be wrapped in this pair but they have a different magic word.

I will go ahead and remove the other two pages from translation, and fix their source-languages as well. If someone finds time, or if you take cognizance of my observations, feel free to prepare the pages for translation but before you go with marking the page for translation, do seek some assistance here. Best regards, ─ The Aafī ^(talk) 18:14, 11 December 2023 (UTC)

@Nikerabbit and @TheAafi, thank you for the help and pointers to the tutorials, I will absolutely go through properly and apply to the next page I may need to tag. -- DNdubane (WMF) (talk) 19:14, 11 December 2023 (UTC)

Doing... the second one. --Pols12 (talk) 13:07, 13 December 2023 (UTC)

Done. Pols12 (talk) 14:21, 13 December 2023 (UTC)

Doing... the third one. -- Pols12 (talk) 15:55, 17 December 2023 (UTC)

Done. -- Pols12 (talk) 16:34, 17 December 2023 (UTC)

This section was archived on a request by: ─ The Aafī ^(talk) 08:04, 2 January 2024 (UTC)

Tech/News/2023/48/41/en and MinT sabotage

Why Translation functionality not always show the permanent phrasing from the translation memory ? Tech News excessively apply a including a very old piece of sentence, which is why I continue working on the task each issue, aka weekly. What I see with en/ja translation pair is what I assume other language versions are going into the same routine to fix. Don't sabotage translation memory with MinT-original output, or that will waste translator circles contribution accomplished the translation memory. MinT output for en/ja translation at Tech/News/2023/48/41/en > /ja, you should show the permanent translation output. As more eager hands of newly starting editors on Meta are encouraged to assist in weekly translation tasks, a sample of possible pathway will be as follows:

1. with diff=25905062&oldid=25905057, I new translatow will push MinT-original output as translation, from right column into the left colum;
2. as that paragraph does not make any sense to native readers, somebody needs to fix it manually by;
3. need to open Tech/News/2023/47, copy and paste the parmanent phrasing into Tech/News/2023/48/41/ja;
4. then the readers will have no problem nor doubt about the quality of Tech/News.

It is total waste of time, as you see. Omotecho (talk) 11:03, 27 November 2023 (UTC)

Actually, I needed to go back to To solve the mulfunction, I needed to go back to issues #47 and #46 of Tech/News. No wonder nobody worked on it before the very last minute of delivery. -- Omotecho (talk) 11:10, 27 November 2023 (UTC)

Translation memory sometimes fails, especially with Tech News; it is a known issue.

The workaround I use is {{subst:SALT}}, designed by Alexis Jazz three years ago. The main issue with that workaround is you should be sure the last week translation was good. -- Pols12 (talk) 21:47, 27 November 2023 (UTC)

@Pols12, hello, and thank you always for your golden wisdom. (y)

I am afraid since MinT was made regitimate, it is more complicated to see if it's translation database or MinT barring translators to enjoy the ease of reusing the right window recommendations: It is very sad that those two longer paragraphs are much more fail-proof pre-MinT, based on my observation for two yrs or so, and 1+ past issues are needed to mend/reuse the correct fixed translation.

Yes, yes, that indicates, I second applying {{tl:subst:SALT}} on the condition we will proofread cautiously. What a relief, you made my week! (= Cheers, -- Omotecho (talk) 03:55, 28 November 2023 (UTC)

(in ja) 翻訳データベースから正しい固定訳が右カラムに表示されず、MinTが誤訳を表示する場合。従前の訳文を引いてくる {{tl:subst:SALT}} を代入する方法があります。直近の同じ英文に対する訳文を拾ってきて置換する機能のようです。

ご注意

• ただし、直近の訳文が正しいかどうか、くれぐれも確認願います。
• 翻訳対象を「保存」後、記事名前空間で正しい訳文かどうか確認を忘れないでください。

Omotecho (talk) 04:00, 28 November 2023 (UTC)