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Notifications from Langcom about proposed approvals
[edit]Rakhine Wikipedia
[edit]The Language Committee intends to approve Requests for new languages/Wikipedia Rakhine. If you have any objections to that based on the Language Proposal Policy, please tell us here on this page in the next 7 days. Meanwhile, the community is asked to check (and if necessary, complete) the wiki settings as indicated on the request page. --MF-W 19:46, 2 October 2024 (UTC)
- For the record: Still trying to obtain verification of the content. --MF-W 18:19, 13 October 2024 (UTC)
- ...but it is going on! --MF-W 09:29, 21 October 2024 (UTC)
- Any update? --ꠢꠣꠍꠘ ꠞꠣꠎꠣ (talk) 06:14, 20 November 2024 (UTC)
- @MF-Warburg, Is there anything I can help for this? Ninja✮Strikers «☎» 12:42, 10 December 2024 (UTC)
- I've sent you an email. -- MF-W 15:42, 10 December 2024 (UTC)
- @MF-Warburg, Is there anything I can help for this? Ninja✮Strikers «☎» 12:42, 10 December 2024 (UTC)
- Any update? --ꠢꠣꠍꠘ ꠞꠣꠎꠣ (talk) 06:14, 20 November 2024 (UTC)
- ...but it is going on! --MF-W 09:29, 21 October 2024 (UTC)
Sylheti Wikipedia
[edit]The Language Committee intends to approve Requests for new languages/Wikipedia Sylheti. If you have any objections to that based on the Language Proposal Policy, please tell us here on this page in the next 7 days. Meanwhile, the community is asked to check (and if necessary, complete) the wiki settings as indicated on the request page. --Amir E. Aharoni (talk) 18:58, 6 December 2024 (UTC)
- While I have no objections based on Language Proposal Policy, to approving Sylheti Wikipedia, I feel it's unfair to the other 5 Sylheti projects, which have been active for more than 6-12 months (required only 3 months) and still remain active for over a year. I urge the Wikimedia body to review the approach of Langcom, specifically regarding Talk:Language committee/2024#Request for Sylheti Wiktionary Approval (which was ghosted, no follow up with the community in the incubator) handling of the Sylheti Wiktionary approval, where repetitive questioning and delays discouraged community involvement, even though I continued. And please compare the discussion with Talk:Language committee#Sylheti Wikipedia (In discussion section). The current bureaucratic approach seems to demoralize contributors rather than encourage them. I’m attaching the discussion here for review. Can we improve the process so new language communities are supported, not discouraged, by unnecessary hurdles? Additionally, discussions on language-script combinations should be handled in a separate process to avoid hindering progress. --ꠢꠣꠍꠘ ꠞꠣꠎꠣ (talk) 19:22, 21 December 2024 (UTC)
Discussions
[edit]Hello Language Committee, I recently received an email from a community member in the Wikimedia Incubator inquiring about the status of the approval for the Sylheti Wikipedia. I share the same question and would appreciate any updates you can provide regarding this matter. -- ꠢꠣꠍꠘ ꠞꠣꠎꠣ (talk) 05:47, 18 September 2024 (UTC)
Comment This question has accounted by [1], but still has some issues to be answered by linguistics. Liuxinyu970226 (talk) 01:51, 19 October 2024 (UTC)- I heard that a request has been sent out for advice from linguists on this. I hope this issue will be resolved soon so that your community can have a wiki. --Sotiale (talk) 13:30, 21 October 2024 (UTC)
Thanks. Any update? --ꠢꠣꠍꠘ ꠞꠣꠎꠣ (talk) 11:03, 18 November 2024 (UTC)
- The Language committee had a discussion about this and has some questions.
- In the Incubator, you are writing the Sylheti language in the Sylheti script. Sometimes, however, this language is written in the Bengali. If anyone asks to contribute content in the Bengali script, will it be allowed?
- Will it be OK to enable a script converter, similarly to how it's done in the Manipuri Wikipedia? By default, the content there is shown in the native script, but pressing the "ꯃꯤꯇꯩ ꯂꯣꯟ" button at the top of the page allows showing it in the Bengali script. (The script converter doesn't exist yet, but will possibly be developed.) Amir E. Aharoni (talk) 04:46, 26 November 2024 (UTC)
- If any contributors (if not required atleast 3) wish to write Sylheti in a valid language-script combination (1, 2, 3 etc.), it is generally acceptable as long as there is no explicit orthographic restriction set by the language policy (see also: incubator:Wp/syl-beng). The Language Committee is responsible for validating any specific language-script combinations (see also: d:Q107549714, d:Q120142383, d:Q123848480) and checking with orthography or any other Langcom guidelines. If Sylheti can be represented in multiple scripts, and this is supported by the language community or policy, then contributions in the Bengali script (which has many variations) could be allowed. This would accommodate at least two relevant variations, such as the Sylheti-Assamese script variation (example text: 'ছিলটি সংবাদৰ ফইলা দুইটা সংকাএ ছিলটি মাইনসৰ বড় আদর ফাউআএ তিচৰা সংকা বাৰ করা অইলঅ,' by Muslim Sylheti writers in India) and the Sylheti-Bengali script variation (example text: 'ইবারর "জড়র টানে" ই ম্যাগাজিনর পয়লা প্রকাশক শ্রী তন্ময় চক্রবর্ত্তীর কামো আমি মুগ্ধ।' by Hindu Sylheti writers in India), which can be explored by the Langcom. If any writers from these two groups approach in the future and Langcom needs to find technical solutions, Phabricator may be helpful. If any readers from these groups approach in the future, please discuss their needs, conversion documentation, etc. -- ꠢꠣꠍꠘ ꠞꠣꠎꠣ (talk) 08:08, 26 November 2024 (UTC)
- Just a thought or perhaps a bit of confusion: Muslims can use the Sylheti Bengali script, and Hindus can use the Sylheti Assamese script. I am really confused about what religion has to do with that. Or is there something I’m missing? (Coming from a Sylheti myself.) Asked42 (talk) 17:46, 26 November 2024 (UTC)
- And just to clarify, Bengali and Assamese are not entirely distinct scripts; there are only a few (2-3) alphabets that vary between the two languages. See more here: w:en:Bengali–Assamese script#Script. Asked42 (talk) 17:57, 26 November 2024 (UTC)
- The choice is often influenced by a mix of factors like religion, region, national policies, economic reasons, and historical context, rather than being solely about religion. The choice of script also includes other variations, such as Latin-based examples like cilot in Londoni Sylheti Dictionary. and another example such as betawikiversity:আধুনিক শুদ্ধ সিলোটি. Regarding the question of “will it be allowed to write in x/y/z language-script combinations,” the Language Committee should establish clearer policies on submitting specific proposals, assessing language-script combinations, verifying orthographic requirements, determining the reliability of sources, and addressing variations within language-script groups. The proposed converter is designed for reading, not writing. --ꠢꠣꠍꠘ ꠞꠣꠎꠣ (talk) 20:11, 26 November 2024 (UTC)
- It is hard to establish a clear-cut policy on this, because every language is different.
- I can say—and other Language committee members are welcome to express their opinions—that there are some general guiding principles, such as not creating new linguistic entities, being welcoming to all existing ones, and not having one project per language.
- As far as I know, but correct me if I'm wrong, no one has even tried to write Sylheti in Wikipedia in the Bengali script yet. The main question is: if anyone tries, will it be rejected, or will the writers try to accommodate it?
- (As for the technical features of the Language converter, it is indeed one-way read-only in Manipuri now, because that was good enough for that language. In theory, it's probably possible to make it work both ways, but I don't think that anyone asked for it. In Serbian and Chinese, it works both ways.) Amir E. Aharoni (talk) 23:56, 26 November 2024 (UTC)
- Addressing the main question: If someone attempts to write Sylheti in the future, it is unlikely to be outright rejected, provided there are reliable sources. The Bengali-Assamese script has 11 vowels compared to Sylheti’s 5, so clear guidelines for adapting these differences would be needed. It also seems that the two-way gadget requires this for proper documentation. However, this should not hinder accommodating contributions. -- ꠢꠣꠍꠘ ꠞꠣꠎꠣ (talk) 06:22, 28 November 2024 (UTC)
- For clarity, I would like to ask if this is the opinion of the community; Whether the converter gadget can be accommodated and whether it will not prevent users with other scripts from contributing if the gadget works properly. Thanks! --Sotiale (talk) 10:23, 9 December 2024 (UTC)
- Addressing the main question: If someone attempts to write Sylheti in the future, it is unlikely to be outright rejected, provided there are reliable sources. The Bengali-Assamese script has 11 vowels compared to Sylheti’s 5, so clear guidelines for adapting these differences would be needed. It also seems that the two-way gadget requires this for proper documentation. However, this should not hinder accommodating contributions. -- ꠢꠣꠍꠘ ꠞꠣꠎꠣ (talk) 06:22, 28 November 2024 (UTC)
- The choice is often influenced by a mix of factors like religion, region, national policies, economic reasons, and historical context, rather than being solely about religion. The choice of script also includes other variations, such as Latin-based examples like cilot in Londoni Sylheti Dictionary. and another example such as betawikiversity:আধুনিক শুদ্ধ সিলোটি. Regarding the question of “will it be allowed to write in x/y/z language-script combinations,” the Language Committee should establish clearer policies on submitting specific proposals, assessing language-script combinations, verifying orthographic requirements, determining the reliability of sources, and addressing variations within language-script groups. The proposed converter is designed for reading, not writing. --ꠢꠣꠍꠘ ꠞꠣꠎꠣ (talk) 20:11, 26 November 2024 (UTC)
- If any contributors (if not required atleast 3) wish to write Sylheti in a valid language-script combination (1, 2, 3 etc.), it is generally acceptable as long as there is no explicit orthographic restriction set by the language policy (see also: incubator:Wp/syl-beng). The Language Committee is responsible for validating any specific language-script combinations (see also: d:Q107549714, d:Q120142383, d:Q123848480) and checking with orthography or any other Langcom guidelines. If Sylheti can be represented in multiple scripts, and this is supported by the language community or policy, then contributions in the Bengali script (which has many variations) could be allowed. This would accommodate at least two relevant variations, such as the Sylheti-Assamese script variation (example text: 'ছিলটি সংবাদৰ ফইলা দুইটা সংকাএ ছিলটি মাইনসৰ বড় আদর ফাউআএ তিচৰা সংকা বাৰ করা অইলঅ,' by Muslim Sylheti writers in India) and the Sylheti-Bengali script variation (example text: 'ইবারর "জড়র টানে" ই ম্যাগাজিনর পয়লা প্রকাশক শ্রী তন্ময় চক্রবর্ত্তীর কামো আমি মুগ্ধ।' by Hindu Sylheti writers in India), which can be explored by the Langcom. If any writers from these two groups approach in the future and Langcom needs to find technical solutions, Phabricator may be helpful. If any readers from these groups approach in the future, please discuss their needs, conversion documentation, etc. -- ꠢꠣꠍꠘ ꠞꠣꠎꠣ (talk) 08:08, 26 November 2024 (UTC)
┌─────────────────────────────────┘
If I understand correctly, there has been no new discussion at the Village Pump regarding the converter, and, as another LangCom member pointed out, no user has attempted to contribute using another script. Therefore, there is currently no new community opinion on the converter or any concerns about it preventing contributions.
The main concern is that this proposal might be perceived as an attempt to delay our project. Delays, however, could hinder progress, and as a result, some of our other projects have seen a decline in contributions. If the converter gadget truly has the potential to attract more contributors, it may be worth considering a pilot in one of our less popular projects. This would help demonstrate that the proposal is made in good faith, not with the intent to delay or complicate the project, but rather to aid in the process of graduating from the incubator. -- ꠢꠣꠍꠘ ꠞꠣꠎꠣ (talk) 09:53, 10 December 2024 (UTC)
- @ꠢꠣꠍꠘ ꠞꠣꠎꠣ: Langcom has no reason to have any other intentions in terms of the fact that the more your project is delayed, the more projects we have to worry about. I also hope this issue is resolved quickly. It's just that the delay comes from uncertainty. The answer that there is no such contributor at present and that there is no discussion about it is an answer that lacks certainty. In principle, we do not allow two language editions for the same language simply because the scripts are different. Alternatively, you can explain to me that users of other scripts meet the criteria including ISO 639-3 of LPP. That's why I'm asking you if other script(especially, Bengali script) users can be accommodated; conditionally for the gadgets mentioned above. Could you please answer the above questions(whether the converter gadget can be accommodated and whether it will not prevent users with other scripts from contributing if the gadget works properly) again? If necessary, please do so after the community has discussed it. Please note that this does not mean you should abandon your script. It just means that you can use your existing script and should not hinder contributions from users who use Bengali script. --Sotiale (talk) 08:06, 19 December 2024 (UTC)
- @Sotiale Please discuss this with the specific users who know the language and are interested in contributing using their language-script combinations.
As far as I understand, you are delaying this based on an anonymous email, not actual contributors who have wanted to contribute to the project (in test for the last 10 years). Please feel free to discuss it with specific user groups about which languages they know, where they are stuck, and what their needs are. --ꠢꠣꠍꠘ ꠞꠣꠎꠣ (talk) 08:35, 19 December 2024 (UTC) A possible proposal: If a page, subpage, or subsection exists where User1, User2, and User3 sign and write to Langcom about a language-script combination, they would form a "community" for that. By attaching reliable, verifiable sources, this issue can be easily resolved. Langcom can then advise Phabricator on the necessary technical actions. --ꠢꠣꠍꠘ ꠞꠣꠎꠣ (talk) 09:05, 19 December 2024 (UTC)If there are no genuine users of that kind, I believe the situation is not being approached in good faith or with sincere intentions. For instance, we could waste another 10 years of our community’s efforts. In contrast, good-faith users who relied on existing converters continued to contribute, making it hard to distinguish their work from converted text. They did not simply sit back and hope the project would fail. However, if LangCom had not allowed such loopholes and had instead focused on genuinely supporting users in need or projects that require more contributors to graduate, individuals with harmful intentions would not have had the opportunity to exploit the system. I leave this matter to LangCom to address, but please let me know if there is anything productive I can contribute to help resolve it. --ꠢꠣꠍꠘ ꠞꠣꠎꠣ (talk) 13:55, 19 December 2024 (UTC)
- @Sotiale Please discuss this with the specific users who know the language and are interested in contributing using their language-script combinations.
I read your discussion and would like to make a suggestion
- Language name (interlanguage link) in Sylheti and Bengali script. Like Serbian, Serbo-Croatian, Tatar, Kashmiri, Konkani, etc. Users writing in Bengali will see their language and their script
- Part of the Main page, perhaps the greeting block, should be in Bengali script, as it was on the Serbo-Croatian Wikipedia before the converter was installed (half of the page in one script, half in the other)
I think these actions will significantly reduce the doubts that users writing in Bengali will not be rejected and their contribution will not be deleted. Perhaps the best solution would be a converter, but no one is working on it and it is unknown whether anyone will work on it. No one translates into Sylheti Bengali on translatewiki. In my opinion, the actions I have proposed would show that contributions in Bengali are possible and welcome in the future. --Danvintius Bookix (talk) 13:18, 20 December 2024 (UTC)
- Good suggestion; if this is what LangCom wants. Since Sylheti has unique orthographic requirements not met by the Bengali-Assamese script, it’s uncertain if this approach aligns with LangCom’s goals. If so, and given the lack of such user activity, if LangCom wants to write 50% of the front page by themselves, they are welcome to proceed with writing Sylheti in the Bengali-Assamese script to potentially find such users in the future. -- ꠢꠣꠍꠘ ꠞꠣꠎꠣ (talk) 11:50, 21 December 2024 (UTC)
Request for Approval for Nupe Wikipedia
[edit]Hello Language Committee, the https://incubator.wikimedia.org/wiki/Special:PrefixIndex/Wp/nup/project has been active and the community would like the project to be approved. The request for the approval has been made https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Requests_for_new_languages/Wikipedia_Nupe. Thank you. 787IYO (talk) 19:31, 10 November 2024 (UTC)
- Of course, I am not a member of the language committee and nothing depends on me, but it seems to me that you are rushing things, the project was only recently recognized as eligible. 85.249.174.246 19:40, 10 November 2024 (UTC)
- Please log in with your username. Off course it's recently verified, that indicates the commitment of the Nupe language editors community 787IYO (talk) 20:31, 11 November 2024 (UTC)
- Nupe community have shown rapid growth, hence approving it will enhance there commitments towards ensuring open source knowledge to all. Haweey7575 (talk) 11:50, 12 December 2024 (UTC)
- Your Wiki has very good activity. I wish you a speedy approval and creation! Medžuslovjanin (talk) 19:04, 14 December 2024 (UTC)
Verification of open proposals
[edit]I am submitting a request to verify the following language project proposals. The projects meet the required criteria as outlined. In addition, three of the language projects were previously active for more than three consecutive months, but no action was taken. We have confirmed that the projects do not already exist (as per the existing list). An appropriate ISO 639 code is available. The language is sufficiently unique and specific and would not conflict with a more general wiki. There is a sufficient number of native editors available to support an edition in this language. I kindly request that you verify the following projects and review these to proceed with the process.
- Requests for new languages/Wikibooks Sylheti
- Requests for new languages/Wikiqoute Sylheti
- Requests for new languages/Wikivoyage Sylheti
Note: The following projects are relatively new and less discoverable, as they are not hosted within the Incubator. They also require separate logins across different domains, which can make them less accessible. As a result, they have attracted fewer users compared to projects within the Incubator. It is also evident that users with less technical experience may find these projects more challenging to navigate.
ꠢꠣꠍꠘ ꠞꠣꠎꠣ (talk) 11:51, 11 November 2024 (UTC)
- Any update? -- ꠢꠣꠍꠘ ꠞꠣꠎꠣ (talk) 15:26, 11 December 2024 (UTC)
- In addition to that, I would like to point out that the Incubator info pages for the following projects:
- ... do not provide any links to the aforementioned test projects, which are hosted on different domains. This makes it more challenging for users to discover and access the test versions of these projects. If Langcom addresses this issue, perhaps the local admins can help fix this by updating the pages to include links to the respective projects. This would improve accessibility for potential contributors. Looking forward to your response and further updates. -- ꠢꠣꠍꠘ ꠞꠣꠎꠣ (talk) 07:31, 19 December 2024 (UTC)
Enter in the committee
[edit]Hi, I'm interested on entering in the LangCom. I started edit at 2020, at my native wiki, ptwikipedia. I think I could help the committee because of my knowledge in linguistic and in Wikimedia projects. BernaBotto (talk) 01:00, 29 November 2024 (UTC)
- @Amire80, Anass Sedrati, Antony D. Green, Maor X, Janwo, Jon Harald Søby, Yupik, MF-Warburg, Evertype, Satdeep Gill, Sotiale, Tochiprecious, and Vito Genovese: Inviting the members of the committee. BernaBotto (talk) 04:15, 8 December 2024 (UTC)
- Please email me explaining why you would like to serve as a committee member, including your linguistic knowledge or expertise. Send me the details and I will share the email you sent with langcom. --Sotiale (talk) 10:18, 9 December 2024 (UTC)
- @Sotiale:
Done. BernaBotto (talk) 23:20, 9 December 2024 (UTC)
- @Sotiale:
- Please email me explaining why you would like to serve as a committee member, including your linguistic knowledge or expertise. Send me the details and I will share the email you sent with langcom. --Sotiale (talk) 10:18, 9 December 2024 (UTC)
Request for Approval of Waray Wikisource
[edit]Hello Language Committee, Waray Wikisource project has been active for 6 months now as a result of the Wikisource Loves Manuscripts PH monthly proofread-a-thon. Here is the request for a new language edition: Wikisource Waray --Filipinayzd (talk) 13:18, 30 November 2024 (UTC)
Madurese Wikisource
[edit]Dear Language Committee, the Madurese Wikisource project has been active for 5 months and the community would like the project to be verified before approval . The request for the verified has been made here. If you need to find an expert on the language, we are ready to provide the contact details. Thank you Agus Damanik (talk) 12:55, 3 December 2024 (UTC)
(by region: Goalpariya, Kamtapuri, Rangpuri; colloquially known as Desi or Rajbanshi)
I am requesting that LangComm update the current language proposal policy to address language-script combinations and provide a clear process for overcoming bureaucratic barriers, particularly for Indic languages, including projects like this. To support the RKT community, LangCom should help the current project graduate and invite others to contribute by providing a space in the Wikimedia Incubator where contributors can work in their choice of language-script combination. By inviting everyone to contribute, LangCom should encourage productive contributions, not just discussions on Meta without any actual progress in the project. -- ꠢꠣꠍꠘ ꠞꠣꠎꠣ (talk) 17:06, 16 December 2024 (UTC)
- I don't understand what you want. It's not very helpful to ask for updates and clear processes without stating what the problem is.
- It's outside of Wikimedia's goals to support every language-script combination. It would be easiest to support one script for each language, but there are some cases where multiple scripts are actually in use. If they're basically ciphers for each other, like Cyrillic and Latin are in Serbo-Croatian, then Wikimedia can be set up to handle it. I'm guess these scripts would count, but that's going to take people knowledgeable in the scripts and writing.
- There's an English proverb, "measure twice, cut once". Without an idea about what scripts are going to be supported and how, filling the incubator with stuff is pointless. There should be a discussion on Meta about what scripts and orthographies the Goalpariya Wikipedia is going to support, and there's nothing LangCom can do to shortcut that process.
- The only thing I see that the people outside the speakers of this language could help with is details about how Wikimedia's multiscript system works and what the options are with it.--Prosfilaes (talk) 07:36, 17 December 2024 (UTC)
Hello, Language Committee, The Magahi Wikipedia meets the minimum requirements to graduate from the Incubator. The translation statistics are also satisfactory. -- ꠢꠣꠍꠘ ꠞꠣꠎꠣ (talk) 01:09, 18 December 2024 (UTC)
- Hello, is there any update on the approval? ऐक्टिवेटेड् (talk) 20:33, 21 December 2024 (UTC)