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Requests for comment/Trwiki block of RuzDD by an unproven sockpuppet claim

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English

[edit]

Hello. First of all, I want to say that this is my first RFC and sorry if I made a mistake. Also sorry if my English is bad.

I was blocked indefinitely and removed from white list (something like autopatrol) on trwiki at 31 December 2023, but I think this is wrong. Here is my reasons:

  • Checkuser request is finished as "olası" which means "possible" but the policy does not say suspected (unproven) sockpuppets can be blocked.
  • The local sockpuppet policy recommends "100 edit rule" for suspected sockpuppets and this rule says I'm not a sockpuppet even only for the main namespace.
  • I could not find any behavioral smilarities between me and Modern primat.
  • Duck test page is referenced but it's an essay (not a valid policy or guideline).

Here is the reason why i'm objecting this in here and not in trwiki:

  • On trwiki, both of my two unblock requests are closed without refuting my justifications.
  • On the second denial, the sysop said "engellemeye yol açan olay konusunda hiçbir açıklama içermediği ya da başka nedenlerle nedensiz görüldüğü için" which means "because it does not contain any explanation about the block reason" but i was explained why this is wrong.

It's true that sometimes I made unconstructive edits or comments, but my unblock will be better for trwiki because of these:

  • I'm planning to focus on only main namespace for a time.
  • I understood my mistakes better in this time.
  • My contributions on other wikis (for example translatewiki) shows that now I'm more serious and I will try to be completely constructive.
  • I will be able to access to The Wikipedia Library and this means i will be able to use better sources in articles.

I'm not angry to ToprakM, and I even thank them because they were helped me in various ways. I should say that i was not used sockpuppet in any time and i will not use. I will notify users with their talk page in soon as the policy says.

Türkçe

[edit]

Merhaba. Her şeyden önce, bu açtığım ilk RFC ve herhangi bir hatam olursa özür dilerim.

Trwiki'de 31 Aralık 2023 tarihinde kanıtlanmamış bir kukla iddiası nedeniyle süresiz olarak engellendim ve beyaz listeden çıkartıldım, fakat bunun doğru olmadığını düşünüyorum. Gerekçelerim şunlardır:

  • Denetçi incelemesi "olası" olarak sonuçlandırılmış fakat politikada kukla olduğu kanıtlanmayan kullanıcıların da engellenebileceği belirtilmemiş.
  • Yerel kukla politikasında kukla şüphelileri için "100 değişiklik kuralı" önerilmiştir ve buna göre sadece ana ad alanındaki katkılarım bile değerlendirilse kukla olmayacağım öngörülmektedir.
  • Kuklası olduğum iddia edilen Modern primat kullanıcısıyla aramda davranışsal veya üslupsal benzerliklere rastlayamadım.
  • Dayanak olarak verilen ördek testi sayfası bir denemedir, yani politika veya yönerge değildir ve dolayısı ile de engelleme politikasının 13. maddesi tarafından kapsanmamaktadır.

Bu işleme trwiki yerine burada itiraz etmemin nedenleri şunlardır:

  • Trwiki'de iki itirazım da gerekçelerim çürütülmeden reddedilmiştir.
  • İkinci rette gerekçe belirtmeme rağmen "engellemeye yol açan olay konusunda hiçbir açıklama içermediği ya da başka nedenlerle nedensiz görüldüğü için" yazılması nedeniyle bu soruna trwiki'de çözüm bulamayacağımı düşündüm.

Zaman zaman Vikipedi'de yapıcı olmayan değişiklikler yaptığım veya görüşler bildirdiğim doğrudur, fakat engelim kaldırılırsa şu nedenlerle Vikipedi için yine de daha iyi olacaktır:

  • Bir süreliğine yalnızca madde ad alanına ve tartışmasız değişikliklere odaklanmayı düşünüyorum.
  • Bu süre zarfında hatalarımı daha iyi anladım.
  • Başka vikiler (mesela translatewiki) üzerindeki katkılarımın da gösterdiği üzere artık daha ciddiyim ve yapıcı katkılarla sınırlı kalmaya daha çok çaba göstereceğim.
  • Vikipedi Kütüphanesi'ne erişebileceğim ve bu da maddelere daha iyi kaynaklar ekleyebileceğim anlamına gelir.

Engellenmem ve beyaz listeden çıkartılmam konusunda kesinlikle kişisel bir yorum yapmıyorum, hatta çeşitli konularda bana yardımcı olduğu için ToprakM'ye teşekkür ediyorum. Hiçbir zaman kukla kullanmadığımı ve kullanmayacağımı belirteyim. Birazdan bu yorum isteğiyle ilgisi olan kullanıcılara politika gereğince mesaj bırakarak haber vereceğim. RuzDD (talk) 12:28, 25 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Comments / Yorumlar

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@LR0725: What do you think about this? RuzDD (talk) 10:56, 1 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@RuzDD: Simply, I don't know about this case. How can I help you? LR0725 ( Talk / Contribs ) 11:04, 1 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@LR0725: Thank you. RuzDD (talk) 11:08, 1 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@LR0725 Sorry for asking while you don't know about this case but I think this is my only choice: Do you agree that blocking users for unproven sockpuppet claims wrong? RuzDD (talk) 15:03, 19 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Uncitoyen: I know that you are not the person who made the decision about my block etc. but what do you think about this? RuzDD (talk) 18:53, 1 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Kızıl: What do you think about this? RuzDD (talk) 08:21, 4 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Merhaba @RuzDD, kendimi Türkçe daha iyi ifade edebilirim.
Açıkçası olaylara pek hakim değilim, işin aslını astarını da pek bilmiyorum. Ama sizi tanıdığım süre boyunca yapıcı olmayan bir hareketinizi görmedim. Tabii ki ben sadece 1 yıldır Wikipedia'da katkı veriyorum. Bu nedenle benim yorumum, görüşüm veya iddiam ne kadar önem arz eder bilemiyorum. Bir bildiğim olsa ve açıklamam gerekiyorsa bunu söylerim ve yaparım fakat konu hakkında ne yazık ki fazla bir düşünceye sahip değilim. Bununla birlikte Modern primat'ın kuklası olmadığınızı düşündüğümü belirteyim. Seslendiğiniz ve düşüncemi almak istediğiniz için çok teşekkür ederim, kısa zamanda tekrar görüşmek üzere, hoşça kalın. -- Kızıldeniz (talk) 10:30, 5 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Teşekkürler. RuzDD (talk) 18:54, 5 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Kızıldeniz Sorry for asking while you don't know about this case but I think this is my only choice: Do you agree that blocking users for unproven sockpuppet claims wrong? RuzDD (talk) 12:04, 24 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@EPIC: What do you think about this? By the way, I want to draw more attention to this RFC, so is leaving a message on the village pump of trwiki a good idea? RuzDD (talk) 09:13, 6 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Just like LR above I have no idea about this case, but if you have the ability to resolve this locally, I think you should. EPIC (talk) 09:15, 6 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@EPIC: I think I really don't have the ability to resolve this locally, my reasons are above. I really tried to solve this problem locally. I mean can a steward (maybe you) place a message on the trwiki village pump to draw attention? I can't do that myself as I'm blocked on there. RuzDD (talk) 09:21, 6 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Hi @EPIC! (My English is a little weak, sorry) RuzDD was treated unfairly. This user was blocked indefinitely by an unproven sockpuppet claim. Maybe he is a sockpuppet, maybe not but we can't know this. It has not been proven that RuzDD is sockpuppet but ToprakM has blocked him, so sysop (administrator) rights were abused. RuzDD has tried to solve this problem in tr:User talk:RuzDD but he couldn't solve because ToprakM and Kadı haven't provided the necessary explanation. RuzDD is unjustly blocked, so this problem needs to be solved. ToprakM and Kadı have to explain about this problem. 178.240.154.209 22:47, 6 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for your comment. RuzDD (talk) 07:32, 7 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Hello, I am Yaratmayıcı, one of the people that was, for the lack of a better term, slaughtered because I thought Modern primat was a victim of mobbing by the admins and other users like Kadı. (Which I still think is, there is evidence if you look into his contribs.) VP:KÜRSÜ (or WP:SOAPBOX, its equivalent in English Wikipedia) was quite literally weaponized against him. The users are clearly seeing the wiki as a very serious place and they can’t tolerate someone acting a bit out of ordinary.If you scroll down to Tehonk’s comment, you can see that it’s a nice summary of actions against him. (It’s in Turkish) This “Talking Wikipedia” project of the wiki has started to turn into a honeypot as you can see that both users have nothing in common except contributing to it. I think the admins are getting corrupted and steward intervention might be needed sooner or later.--85.98.17.178 18:25, 7 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for your comment. RuzDD (talk) 20:49, 7 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
No problem. I think Turkish Wikipedia has some issues which has to be resolved from outside.--85.98.17.178 09:48, 8 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I join you, probably most of these users are behaving with good faith but this does not change the fact that the trwiki has some problems these probably can't be resolved from inside. RuzDD (talk) 10:47, 8 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@RuzDD iyi niyet varsaymayı bırakın artık. Burada iyi niyet göremiyorum. Sizi haksız yere engelliyorlar, size gerekli açıklamayı yapmıyorlar ve kendinizi savunmanıza izin vermiyorlar, hâlâ iyi niyet. Başkası olsa iyi niyet varsaymayı çoktan bırakmıştı, sizin sabrınızı bu konuda takdir ediyorum. Umarım bu problem kısa sürede çözülür. 31.143.87.86 11:32, 8 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Aslında haklısınız, ilk başta zaman zaman benim de başıma geldiği gibi bazen insanlar stresli olabilir diyerek iyi niyet varsaymıştım fakat artık ben de biraz şüphelenmeye başladım. Görüşünüz için teşekkür ederim. RuzDD (talk) 12:06, 8 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Can anyone (maybe a steward) place a message in the trwiki village pump to draw more attention to this RFC? RuzDD (talk) 13:40, 9 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@RuzDD you may wanna make a report to ombuds commission for inappropriate checkuser usage. Lemonaka (talk) 21:12, 9 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I did it right now. @Modern primat and @ToprakM FYI. RuzDD (talk) 08:47, 10 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
sent. — xaosflux Talk 09:51, 14 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Looks like I should be opened this RFC with the name "Sysop abuse on the Turkish Wikipedia 2" so this RFC could be used for another incidents, sorry for my poor naming capabilities. I don't know the policy very well; if it's required, feel free to rename this. RuzDD (talk) 11:29, 19 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I think you should consult a steward on the appropriate action. 85.99.19.213 20:29, 19 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Xaosflux Sorry for another ping, feel free to rename this RFC if it's required. I'm not requesting a rename, do not get it wrong, I just don't know If I did something wrong. Feel free to rename if the policy says it's required, I don't know the policy very well. RuzDD (talk) 21:14, 19 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
What he is saying is that he wants to broaden the scope of this RfC 176.89.144.57 10:31, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Not exactly, I think it can be better with a wider scope but if it won't be better, feel free to not rename this. RuzDD (talk) 10:35, 20 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@YG1 What do you think about this? RuzDD (talk) 17:39, 24 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Right now, I noticed that you were blocked on trwiki and looks like you're not here for a time. @Xaosflux can using this RFC also for another incidents be allowed? RuzDD (talk) 10:41, 28 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Please stop sending @notifications to me. Note, it is extremely unlikely that the global community is going to decide that trwiki is unable to manage their blocks. — xaosflux Talk 11:14, 28 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Until you say that, I were not being able to know that you don't want my pings, I mean, I was thinking that's just a mistake like b:tr:Kullanıcı_mesaj:LR0725 ("Oh, I missed this! Sorry." part). I won't ping you anymore. I think trwiki has a big systemic governance issue. Thank you for help. RuzDD (talk) 11:27, 28 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Lustrouss What do you think about this? RuzDD (talk) 10:49, 28 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Modern primat Ruzdd'yi sen sanıyorlar bi yorum yap 176.227.27.215 21:07, 7 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Buranın bir amacı yok. Tabiri caizse milletin vaktini çalmaktan başka bir işe yaramıyor. Burayı kapatmanız daha makul.
  • RuzDD benim kuklam değil, yakından uzaktan alakam yok. Kadı zaten denetçi talebinde "taklit edebileceğini" diye belirtmiş. RuzDD kukla diye etiketleneceğine yakın takibe alınsaydı daha iyi değil miydi? Taklit etmişse bari o hüngür hüngür ağladığım mezar fotolarımı ilgili maddelere ekleseydi.
  • Zaten ar-şiv-lerde göreceksiniz ki zaten denetçi bombardımanına tutulmuşum(Ctrl+F)! İnternette çeşit çeşit insanlar olabileceği gibi benzer insanlar da olamaz mı? Biri gitti Konuşan Vikipedi diye ölü bir projeye katkı verdi ve de devlet memuru gibi değişiklik özetleri yazmadı diye benim kuklam olması en hafif tabiriyle saçmalık. Hele hele, ben katkıyı kestikten ancak 1 ay sonra mı dayanabildiniz? Buraya resmen "wall of text" yazmıştım da önemi yok, "cümleyi sakız gibi uzatarak" aradaki boşlukları doldurabilirsiniz. Özet: Ben kukla açsaydım böyle yakalanmazdım, bulamazdınız bile.
  • Daha da ötesi RuzDD'nin gerçekten de masum olup olmadığını bilmiyorum, gerçekten bilmiyorum. Ve umursamıyorum. Vikipedi'den engelimi ancak topluluk kaldıracaksa, bir kişi bile gidip "yav kardeşim, bakın katkı yapıyor" bile demiyorsa, umurumda değil!!!!. Takla atsam, ağzımla kuş tutsam bile ben engelimi açtıramadım kardeşim. Ben burada uğraşarak ancak engel kaydımı değiştiririm zaten, o da gene sınırsız engel ki... Bu saatten sonra hiiiç uğraşamam ben bu işlerle. Hadi eyvallah.
-
Bütün bu gereksiz tartışmalardan dolayı herkese özür borçluyum, önce kendime:
Buraya harcadığım vakti uyumadığım için
Ardından size:
Çok önceleri sonuçlarını anlamadığım ve Vikipedi'yi çok sevdiğimi göremeden yaptıklarım için, çok pişmanım. Sadece biraz ara verseydim... Onca kullanıcın vaktini aynı bir çığ düşmesi gibi çaldığımı hissediyorum. Lütfen benden sonrakileri başlangıçta bitirin, çığ olmasınlar.
Ve de bir sitem, bu sefer Türkçe topluluğa:
Ölüsünüz. Bildiğiniz dümdüz ölü. Sizi 2017'deki engel ile (zaten belki ölüyseniz)iyicene öldürdüler. Tekrar yaşamaya başladığınız zaman göreceksiniz. ----modern_primat ඞඞඞ TALK 22:00, 10 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Modern primat Please be more polite. RuzDD (talk) 08:03, 11 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Zafer: What do you think about this? RuzDD (talk) 07:40, 13 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@RuzDD rica ediyorum, buraya kimseyi çağırma. ----modern_primat ඞඞඞ TALK 18:01, 13 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
ama burası en az tr vikipediden 2 kat daha az aktifliği var millet te bir türlü bakmıyor benim RFC’yi köy çeşmesinde tutma çabalarıma rağmen 85.99.16.60 08:40, 16 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Brightt11: What do you think about this? RuzDD (talk) 07:40, 13 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Hi there RuzDD. Since there isn’t contribution conflicts between ur and alleged sockpuppet, the Modern primat, and at the same time, your Checkuser Investigation opened against you has been concluded as "POSSIBLE" and u have not been declared as a "DEFINITE SOCKPUPPET". A user can’t be blocked arbitrarily because of similar contributions. However, different methods such as cross-investigation can be tried for improved sockpuppet detection. And then it will be revealed whether he is a sockpuppet of you and the Modern primat. In addition, a checkuser investigation was previously opened against you with the user Niveles and was closed without any result. At the same time, the checkuser investigation with the Modern primat user Cedreon, which was opened 2 years ago, was closed without any results and a few hours ago today fake investigation was opened and later deleted. Bright 17:35, 23 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks for your comment. RuzDD (talk) 19:45, 23 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]


I believe the action was taken unfairly. The result of his sockpuppet investigation was "possible", not "confirmed" (which does not guarantee bans), the investigation was left only at "possible" with no further investigation. Nobody should take certain measurements such as bans for uncertain matters. I call for a re-investigation that is done with proper methods, rather than just looking at their contributions and finding some similarities.Necatorina (talk) 02:31, 22 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for your comment. RuzDD (talk) 15:06, 22 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I want to clarify my main reason to this RFC to make it easier to understand: I was blocked while the checkuser said that I was maybe the sockpuppet of Modern primat. RuzDD (talk) 15:22, 22 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@LostMyMind: What do you think about this? RuzDD (talk) 09:39, 26 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Ajraddatz: What do you think about this? And, more importantly, do you agree that blocking users for unproven sockpuppet claims wrong? RuzDD (talk) 13:14, 27 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

An admin speedy deleted a page about a non-commercial webpage with ambigous notability. The user in question raised this in the appropriate venue and immediately got a COI warning issued against him by the same admin. And the person that Ruz was accused of sockpuppeting for, Modern primat, got a UTRS request speedily denied without allowing for any discussion. It seems to me that broadening the scope of this is more appropriate. The community is not discussing anything regarding this, they are evidently waiting for it to die out, like the previous one did. --85.98.23.82 17:54, 30 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you, I agree with you. RuzDD (talk) 20:33, 30 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@Delbatros @Zemxer: Can you transfer your opinions about this case to here? RuzDD (talk) 20:08, 1 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I've learned that an RFC must be closed to be ready to action right now. I think the consensus is obvious (6 people thinks this block is wrong and no one thinks this block is right), so can a steward close this RFC? RuzDD (talk) 16:07, 8 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Does the objections on modern primat’s trwp talk page count? 6 may seem like a low number but our community is small. 178.244.129.188 11:10, 9 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I did not count them, but if we count them, 7 people thinks this block is wrong and 1 person thinks it's right. I think this is still an enough ratio (7 is significantly bigger than 1). RuzDD (talk) 11:13, 9 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Considering the comments at tr:Vikipedi:Köy_çeşmesi_(ilginize)#Genel_eleştiri, I think it's now obvious that there's a big and ongoing problem in trwiki and this is not limited with my case. RuzDD (talk) 17:57, 11 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I would wait for Ombuds to intervene. Ahri Boy (talk) 12:51, 12 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
They said this case is out of their scope a short time after I wrote to them (and looks like they are right), I didn't think I had to say that. RuzDD (talk) 13:13, 12 November 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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