Grants talk:PEG/User:Sagan/Project:Wiki seminar Yangantau

A decision has been made on this grant. Comments are still welcome on this page.

GAC members who support this request

1. Indexum (talk) - I support this project, with the comments mentioned below.
2. --DerekvG (talk) 19:57, 5 January 2016 (UTC) Although i'm not quite sure is this a new language project that is being released?
3. Béria L. de Rodríguez ^msg 16:31, 12 January 2016 (UTC)
4. Polimerek (talk) 18:49, 24 January 2016 (UTC)
5. --Rebecca Cotton (talk) 19:06, 28 January 2016 (UTC) - I really like this project. I think the focus on translation for the tooling and worldwide relevant articles might help to increase reach and possible impact of the Bashkir Wikipedia.

GAC comments

Currency and exchange rates

I support your effort but probably I do not understand your budget table. I see here Number of units: 10, Cost per unit: 25000. What do you mean with a unit? A full drink and food service per 25 persons? --Packa (talk) 00:50, 2 January 2016 (UTC)

Hi! It means that 25000 RUR is a cost of meals for all 25 persons per 1 day. And we need meals for 10 days during the workshop (250000 RUR). --Visem (talk) 10:31, 3 January 2016 (UTC)

I would recommend to write down the exchange rate for RUB in USA or/and EUR. Judging from my estimation 250000 RUB make cca. 3300 USD/10 days for food. I see that amount in USD requested differs from mine - this the result of the fall of RUB in last week or two. Have to be considered when making the decision. Indexum (talk) 11:34, 4 January 2016 (UTC)

As for today 1 USD=74,53 RUR, 1 EUR = 80,14 RUR--Саган (talk) 18:21, 6 January 2016 (UTC)

Agenda for the training

I would also encourage the organizers to present a draft agenda for the training. 10 days seems a lot of time, and in order help you with the later evaluation it would be nice to have it. It might change and of course it will. Indexum (talk) 11:46, 4 January 2016 (UTC)

Organizers started drafting in Russian. My part on the first day is about Wikipedias in the languages of Russia, then on I'll most probably be helping as one of the tutors during the workshops lead by others. --Frhdkazan (talk) 10:59, 5 January 2016 (UTC)

Gender gap

I also recommend to keep in mind the gender gap within WP. Would be nice to have 50/50 between men and women, but this could be hard - so I would recommend to have a quota for female participants. Indexum (talk) 11:46, 4 January 2016 (UTC)

All organizers (3/3) and mentors (4/2 confirmed, myself included) are male. As of now, 8 of formally invited females have confirmed participation, 1 declined for family reasons, 3 more haven't yet responded. As for male participants: 4 confirmed, 6 declined, 1 response awaited. Organizers are closing the list on March 1st. --Frhdkazan (talk) 12:25, 4 January 2016 (UTC)

Thank you for details, the ratio sounds very good. I would suggests to introduce these numbers in the application form, in order to make easier to spot this data. Indexum (talk) 13:25, 4 January 2016 (UTC)

Visem, the ball's yours. I can also attest to the fact that the organizers are quite confident they can find more participants. They are permanently promoting BasWiki in regional news media and other fora, whilst users who got invited are the ones actively contributing into respective language Wikipedia. --Frhdkazan (talk) 14:12, 4 January 2016 (UTC)

Dear Indexum, do you mean to introduce the data about number of females on the application form? As for me I can also prove that Bashkir wiki-women community is quite strong. And one of participants is very famous women in Bashkortostan. Organizers from Bashkortostan want to attract more active and responsible people with knowledge of Bashkir language for this workshop. And there are a lot of people outside Bashkortostan who want to visit this workshop, but unfortunately the number of places sponsored by the resort is limited to 25. --Visem (talk) 20:33, 4 January 2016 (UTC)

Dear Visem thank you for being so fast. What I meant regarding ”gender quota” (which is not the best term I guess) is that you should emphasize on how many males and females are planned to participate. I.e.: 25 participants, out of which 10 males and 15 females. I can guess from the confirmed participants names who is male and who is female, but it would be nice to have it summarized. I truly believe in the great interest and popularity of the BashWiki among men and female, but as I said it before you should emphasize this aspect in your application. --Indexum (talk) 21:28, 4 January 2016 (UTC)

Community comments

Hello Wikimedians of Bashkortostan, Thank you for your volunteer work for the wikimedia movement. I enjoyed reading about your plans for the seminar. I have a few comments, questions, and suggestions about this event.

• I'm curious about why you decided to schedule the seminar for over a week in length? This seems like a long period of time for volunteers to be away from work or school. Is everyone who is coming agreeing to stay for the whole length of the event? Have you considered having a shorter more focused conference to better accommodate volunteers' other primary obligations such as work, school, and family?

ru: Продолжительность семинара связано с деятельностью курорта Янгантау. Администрация курорта заинтересовано в предоставлении помещений для проживания не менее 10 суток и засчитать это как оказание профильных услуг по оздоровлению за счет самого курорта. Поэтому в данном случае мы не рассматириваем мероприятие с проживанием в менее короткие сроки. Период проведения совпадает с весенними каникулами в школах и некоторые редактора (учителя школ) на эту неделю свободны. На семинар приедут участники, имеющую возможность отлучиться от работы, или они пенсионеры. --Рөстәм Нурыев (talk) 03:42, 16 January 2016 (UTC)

en: Duration of seminar connected with the activity of Yangantau Resort. The administration of the resort is interested in providing the accomodation not less then for 10 days and counting them as providing treatment services for the resort's account. That is why we are not planning the event with accomodation for less period. The period is connected with spring holiday at schools and some of editors (school teachers) will be free for this week. Seminar will be visited by participants who have a possibility to be out of their job or retired people. --Visem (talk) 13:37, 17 January 2016 (UTC)

Thank you for explaining the reasons for choosing the time period. That reasoning makes sense for this conference. For future conference, you all might want to consider a shorter period of time to attract different group of participants. Sydney Poore/FloNight (talk) 00:21, 19 January 2016 (UTC)

• I saw that your proposal includes a list of previous projects and events. Is this seminar directly building from past projects or events? How are you including "lessons learned" from previous events and projects? Are there reports that you have written about previous events that discuss the successes and failures from the events?

ru: О каких конкретных мероприятиях Вы спрашиваете? Мероприятие, подобное семинару в Янгантау мы еще не проводили. Идея его проведения родилась исходя из текущих запросов/вопросов редакторов, особенно новичков. На семинаре мы планируем акцентировать внимание на перевод системных сообщений вики движка на башкирский язык, обучению навыкам редактирования и повышению мастерства, а также морального стимулирования редакторов от совместного общения. Совместное творчество в непосредственной близости будет способствовать ускоренному развитию башкирского вики сообщества и вики проектов на башкирском языке. --Рөстәм Нурыев (talk) 03:31, 16 January 2016 (UTC)

en: About which events are you asking for? Seminar like in Yangantau we haven't had yet. The idea was born from requests/questions of editors, mostly from newcomers. During the seminar we plan to translate system messages of wiki for Bashkir language, to teach the skills of editing ang improving the level of them, and also to stimulate editors from personal discussion. Common creation in working close to each other will promote the accelerated development of Bashkir wiki-comunity and wiki-projects in Bashkir language. --Visem (talk) 07:39, 16 January 2016 (UTC)

Have you had training events in the past? Did the people who attended the training sessions continue to participate after the event? It has been the experience of many wikimedia groups that many people who attend training events don't continue to edit later if they are newcomers. Instead, people will do more work if they are invited to attend regular events. See Grants:Learning patterns/Repeat events That's my thinking for asking about follow up. I suggest that you add to the proposal a plan to further engage attendees. Sydney Poore/FloNight (talk) 20:26, 19 January 2016 (UTC)

Most of participants are active users. Bashkir Wikipedians together with Wikimedia-Ru organized Wiki-Sabantuy 2015. Some elements of training were also present. This event has a great success. Even for me, I have never edited Bashkir Wikipedia before and now I do it regularly. The event has a great positive impact on many users from different countries and regions. --Visem (talk) 18:55, 20 January 2016 (UTC)

Are active editors from other languages now editing Bashkir Wikipedians? If so, that is great to hear. Sydney Poore/FloNight (talk) 23:52, 28 January 2016 (UTC)

• How are you planning to follow up with participants after the seminar to encourage the use of the knowledge and skills learned? If so, could you add a follow up plan to the proposal page.

ru: Вклад каждого редактора отражается на личной странице участника, на странице статистики БашВики, на странице общей статистики всех языковых разделов. Считаем нецелесообразным создавать дополнительный сервис для учета вклада участников семинара. А также считаем нецелесообразным заранее объявлять о каких либо поощерениях в будущем за их активность. Главное поощерение в волонтерстве - это внутреннее удовлетворение от творчества. Наша цель создать условия для более эффективного индивидуального и коллективного творчества. --Рөстәм Нурыев (talk) 03:59, 16 January 2016 (UTC)

en: The input of every participant can be seen in his/her personal page, in the page of statistics of bash-wiki, in the page of overall statistics of all language chapters. There is no need to create additional service for counting input of seminar participants. And also there is no need to announce about any motivational things for their activity in the future. The main motivation for volunteers is a personal satisfaction from their creation. Our aim is to create possibilities for more effective individual and collective creation. --Visem (talk) 20:47, 17 January 2016 (UTC)

Tracking the contributions of the people attending the event is one of the ways to evaluate the impact of the event on content creation and the activity level of the users attending the event. This information is useful for reporting on user participation in content creation. For example, tracking each person's contributions at the event and for 6 months after the event will tell if the majority of the contributions were made by many people attending the event or just a few. This type of information is useful for reports and can also help with future planning for events. See Grants:Learning patterns/Calculating global metrics

Also having the participants complete a survey before and after the event can give you good information about the success of the event. See Grants:Learning patterns/Surveys at different points. Sydney Poore/FloNight (talk) 20:26, 19 January 2016 (UTC)

• It is great that you have free lodging, internet access, and auditorium provided by the resort. Could you add the value of these item to your table to show the overall cost of the event. Then subtract them out of the requested amount for the grant. This makes it easier to keep up with the in kind donations that your user group is getting. This could be valuable information for future planning or reports.

Done. Выполнено. --Рөстәм Нурыев (talk) 14:08, 14 January 2016 (UTC)

• What is the cost for the items to be requested from WMF? What is the cost for printed materials paid by sponsor?

Total costs over 515 000 rubles*, WMF grant request — 250 000 rubles. 2) 3000 рублей. --Рөстәм Нурыев (talk) 14:08, 14 January 2016 (UTC)

• I'm curious about the geographic locations of homes of the people attending the event? Are people fairly close to the venue or are most people traveling far to get to the venue? Will there be high costs for transportation for most people?

RU: Большинство участников семинара проживают в Башкортостане и не будет больших расходов по проезду к месту проведения семинара. Из числа участников 5-6 человек поедут на своих личных авто и возьмут попутчиков. Ближе к семинару распределимся кто с кем едет. Поэтому для большинства участников дорожные расходы будут небольшими. --Рөстәм Нурыев (talk) 15:33, 14 January 2016 (UTC)

EN (translation of the above): Majority of seminar participants are residents of Bashkortostan, so transportation to the venue will not be a significant expense. Some 5-6 participants plan to drive own cars and will give a ride to others. We will look into the specifics of car pooling closer to the event. Thus travel costs won't be substantial for most participants. --Frhdkazan (talk) 15:47, 14 January 2016 (UTC)

• There are transportation costs as a line item in the budget but noted to be paid for by participants. Do you have any idea whether the participants planning to use their own funds or request money from other wikimedia movement grant programs? The range that you list is very wide and I don't have a sense of the actually costs. If transportation costs are taken into account, what type of costs will this add on to the overall cost of the event?

RU: По большинству участников ответили в предыдущем вопросе. По некоторым участникам ведутся индивидуальные переговоры по оплате проезда за счет грантов и спонсорской помощи. --Рөстәм Нурыев (talk) 04:16, 16 January 2016 (UTC)

EN: About major part of participants we have already answered in the previous question. About some of participans there are individual negotiations to be paid by grants or sponsorship. --Visem (talk) 22:38, 17 January 2016 (UTC)

Also, I'm wondering about the creation of the 50 vital articles. Will there be specific references highlighted for these articles to aid in their creation? Is there a benefit for doing this work at the event instead of at home locally? If this connected to the choice of location or some of the people invited to the event?

Речь идет о создание статей из списка 1000 важных статей для всех языковых разделов. В БашВики этот статьи из этого списка являются приоритетными во всех мероприятиях, пока не будет доведен до 100%. В настоящее время 21,9%. --Рөстәм Нурыев (talk) 04:16, 16 January 2016 (UTC)

en: It is about articles from the list of 1000 most important articles for all language chapters. In bash-wiki articles from this list are the most important for all events before we have 100%. Currently we have 21,9%. --Visem (talk) 22:09, 18 January 2016 (UTC)

I really appreciate your work putting on the seminar. In particular I like the focus about translation. That could have a long lasting benefit if you get more people helping in this area. Sydney Poore/FloNight (talk) 22:11, 13 January 2016 (UTC)

• I agree that you should mention in the proposal application that you are attracting both men and women to the BasWiki events. From looking at the images taken at the 10 anniversary events it looks like you had good participation by women at the event. I'm interested in learning the the reason that you think that you have more women attending these events than other geographic locations? Was this something that you worked to achieve or did it happen naturally? I'm wondering if the women are invited to be organizers or mentors of events? If not, to be more inclusive that might be area to cover in the seminar. Sydney Poore/FloNight (talk) 22:33, 13 January 2016 (UTC)

RU: Мир состоит из пары: день — ночь, лето — зима, мужчина — женщина. Равенство и баланс пар является основой, фундаментом созидательной жизни в природе. Башкиры стараются выдерживать такой баланс в любой деятельности. Участие большего числа женщин в БашВики — это обычное явление для башкирского общества. Мы не проводили специальную работу по привлечению женщин, это произошло само собой. Вместе с тем, участница БашВики, писательница Гүзәл Ситдиҡова пользуется огромным авторитетом у башкирских женщин, и это положительно влияет на гендерное соотношение. Мы не включили женщин в список организаторов официально. Однако, это не означает, что мы ущемляем их права. Следует считать, что мужчины взяли на себя основную организаторскую нагрузку. При этом, женщины на равных с мужчинами будут участвовать в проведение занятий и обмене опытом во время семинара. Это обычное явление для башкирского общества. --Рөстәм Нурыев (talk) 14:55, 14 January 2016 (UTC)

EN (translation of the above): The world is made in pairs: day — night, summer — winter, man — woman. Equality and the balance of pairs is a basis, the foundation of creative life of nature. Bashkir people try to keep such balance in any kind of activity. Larger female participation in BashWiki is a common practice for Bashkir society. We did not make any special efforts to attract ladies, it happened naturally. At the same time, we should note that BashWiki participant Гүзәл Ситдиҡова is a writer very much respected among Bashkir women. Her participation is likely to have positive influence on the gender balance as well. Formally we didn't include women into the organizers team, but it doesn't mean that we infringe on their rights. In our view, the proper way to see it is men taking on the main organizational burden. At the same time women will play an equal part in conducting sessions and exchanging experiences in the round tables to take place during the seminar. This is commonplace for Bashkir society in general. --Frhdkazan (talk) 15:59, 14 January 2016 (UTC)

Congratulation on the funding. I wish you all the best success for the seminar. I hope you write about it in a blog post because I think other people would be interested in hearing about your achievements. Sydney Poore/FloNight (talk) 23:52, 28 January 2016 (UTC)

Thank you very much. And thank you for your useful advices. We will try to do our best for making seminar in a propriate way and share our experience later. --Visem (talk) 09:43, 29 January 2016 (UTC)

WMF comments

Hi User:Visem, @User:Саган. Thank you for submitting this request for funding, and for answering all of the questions from the GAC and the community. This seminar sounds like a wonderful opportunity for members of your new user group to work together to translate important extensions and learn how to use new tools. It is fantastic to see the level of in-kind support provided by the resort, and the level of commitment from participants who are spending their holiday time working to improve Bashkir Wikipedia. We are pleased to approve this request for 250,000 Rubles to cover the cost of meals for the Wiki Seminar Yangantau.

We look forward to hearing about your experiences, successes and lessons learned in the grant report. As FloNight pointed out, tracking contributions in a systematic way can be helpful for your community to identify opportunities to help reach your collective goals as a user group. For example, you can look at editing activity after the event has ended to identify participants who might benefit from an invitation to collaborate on a new project, or a friendly message of support. The following resources below might be helpful for developing the right tracking strategy for your program.

Grants:Learning_patterns/Tracking_contest_submissions Grants:Learning_patterns/Create_an_event_page Range contribs tool allows you to track the activity of a cohort of users on a project over a defined period of time.

Please let us know if you have questions or comments, or would like suggestions for additional tools or resources to help you plan this event. Cheers, --KHarold (WMF) (talk) 20:12, 28 January 2016 (UTC)

Dear KHarold (WMF), Thank you very much for your time and your efforts for reviewing our grant request. We are very happy for this decision. And thank you for your friendly advices. We will study the tools and options that you advice us to make our event better. We hope for your friendly help at any stage of event and fruitful cooperation in the future. All the best for you, --Visem (talk) 22:44, 28 January 2016 (UTC)

Grant request changes

Due to several reasons we need to make some changes in our grant request. First of all we have cut the days of staying in Yangantau Resort up to 7. During the negotiation with the director and administration of Yangantau we decided the rest of granted money for meals (unused days) and the rest of received money by fact (18500 RUR) to use for transportation service provided by the resort. Due to the programme we can visit places of interest in the region, including several museum. We think these changes will make positive impact, because we can start doing some work in GLAM-project and can enrich projects with uploaded pictures and new articles. And transportation from the living place to working place will be free for us. By the way, we inform that we have already paid 250500 RUR according to our grant request including bank comission.

Our changes in grant request will be the next:

№ пп	Category	Description	Unit of measurement	Number of units	Cost per unit	Total cost	Currency	Notes
1	Food and drink	Meals (breakfast, lunch, dinner, coffee breaks)	days	7х25	1000	175000	RUR	WMF grant
2	Transportation service	transport and guide service	days	7	*	93500	RUR	WMF grant

--Саган (talk) 06:05, 16 March 2016 (UTC)

Hi Саган, your request to shift unneeded funding for food to pay for transportation for Wikiexpeditions is approved. --KHarold (WMF) (talk) 22:43, 4 April 2016 (UTC)

Reallocation and additional funds request

We have reached our goals that we planned and we didn't need to pay extra money because we decide to cut our excursion programm and visited the most notable places for our future work in wiki-projects (museums). So, we save this money. However, after additional analysis done by a tax specialist, we discovered that the received amount falls under personal income tax, which is 13 % from the income. According to this we need 272 USD more to pay necessary taxes.--Саган (talk) 09:39, 7 April 2016 (UTC)

Hi Саган. Apologies for the delayed response. We approve using the underspend (18,987.45 RUB) and will send additional funds to cover the tax (18,443.58 RUB). We don't generally reimburse for personal income tax, but since this is for the user group and it was not clear, we will make an exception. Alex Wang (WMF) (talk) 18:05, 13 June 2016 (UTC)