Wikivoyage/Lounge/Archive/2013-05

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New Interlingual Portal

Latest comment: 11 years ago68 comments14 people in discussion

A related discussion on the English WV is archived at Travellers' pub/2013#New Interlingual Portal.

Hi! A while ago I saw that one of the goals on the English Roadmap was to improve WV's interlingual portal. So, with that in mind, I tried my hand at making a new one. Unfortunately the page is made in HTML; not Wiki-markup so can't be viewed as yet, however, you can find the code here and a screenshot of the proposed design below. The background image is only 50kb so shouldn't cause any loading issues. I'm sure lots of the translations are very poor, so please let me know what they should be! The reason the Romanian link is separate is that it had the lowest number of articles and there's only room for 10 links around the logo. It would be joined by any new version that commenced now. Any thoughts would be much appreciated! --Nicholasjf21 (talk) 02:26, 18 March 2013 (UTC)

That looks really cool! (And about 1,000,000 times cooler than what we have right now.) There's a sort of telescope effect to the focus, like you are a voyager on the bow of a ship, searching for some destination ahead. It also harmonizes with our color scheme well. The transition from beautiful ocean to whaBAM gray box is pretty rough, though. Could they somehow be integrated into the image, or be placed into a different sort of graphic, with a frame? --Peter ^Talk 04:55, 18 March 2013 (UTC)

Thanks very much! I will try to smooth the transition a bit! In reality it shouldn't be quite as distressing on the eyes, as most users will have to scroll down to view the other links. --Nicholasjf21 (talk) 09:48, 18 March 2013 (UTC)

I suspect that it may be difficult for some people to read dark blue text written on a light blue background. --Stefan2 (talk) 10:01, 18 March 2013 (UTC)

Right- I've changed it a little in order to reflect some of the above opinions; I'll take a look at font colours later on. You can view it 'live' here. Please ignore the chinese characters at the bottom - they are not part of the design, but something either inflicted upon me by the host or an internal WM script that won't work on that host. Any thoughts? --Nicholasjf21 (talk) 15:56, 18 March 2013 (UTC)

Where and how are our and other WMF portal pages actually implemented? What pages, templates, etc. are involved? What roll does Www.wikivoyage.org portal play in this? --Rogerhc (talk) 23:32, 18 March 2013 (UTC)

Www.wikipedia.org template, Www.wikivoyage.org template, Www.wikibooks.org template, etc. Only Meta admins (and stewards) can edit these. See Talk:Www.wikipedia.org_template and Talk:Www.wikivoyage.org_template. πr² (t • c) 23:36, 18 March 2013 (UTC)

I see those templates take HTML. Good. That opens up possibilities. --Rogerhc (talk) 23:41, 18 March 2013 (UTC)

There are instructions to request changes on Talk:Www.wikivoyage.org template, on the box at the top. I replied to your question on Talk:Www.wikivoyage.org portal too. If you have any other questions about Meta-related stuff, feel free to ask and I'll try to help. ;) πr² (t • c) 23:43, 18 March 2013 (UTC)

Mock 1

Mock 1: Www.wikivoyage.org_template/temp sky background (It's HTML; to preview it, select "Preview HTML" from the drop down menu next to the Search box on that page.) I darkened the links, fit all 11 languages around the logo, removed the pedantic "Search" translations (so unlike us to pester travelers, who come first, with stuff they don't need), and removed the white background from Other Projects so that they show on the sky. How does it look? --Rogerhc (talk) 05:36, 19 March 2013 (UTC)

Thanks for coming up with this new idea about the design. I like it. How about chaning backgrounud images? Just a handfull of images, randomly choosen. -- Der Fussi 06:52, 20 March 2013 (UTC)

Like it. Gusta (talk) 16:50, 20 March 2013 (UTC)

I think the sky image only works because it is more a background gradient that an image. But anyone is welcome to prove me wrong. --Rogerhc (talk) 23:56, 20 March 2013 (UTC)

Please everyone who cares, speak up--shall we go like with Mock 1 for now? Dose it have any issues in various browsers or other issues you would like fixed first? Do you support going live with it? Got other versions to consider? Please pipe up. It would be great to have views from all WV language version communities. Thx! --Rogerhc (talk) 00:22, 21 March 2013 (UTC)

Should you advertise this on the various language editions of Wikivoyage or does everyone watch this page? πr² (t • c) 00:23, 21 March 2013 (UTC)

Right, I will go advertise at each individual language version's community page... gotta run now though... so in a couple hours... when I'm back. --Rogerhc (talk) 00:25, 21 March 2013 (UTC)

So nobody can say this wasn't advertised: Meta:Babel#Change_Www.wikivoyage.org_template, Wikimedia_Forum#Again_www.wikimedia.org_hasty_changes. πr² (t • c) 00:30, 21 March 2013 (UTC)

Just noticed it was already spammed on all the local community discussion pages. πr² (t • c) 00:42, 21 March 2013 (UTC)

Yes, sorry! I did that yesterday but forgot to tell everyone! --Nicholasjf21 (talk) 00:54, 21 March 2013 (UTC)

Thanks for notifying the communities. ;) I meant "spammed" in a good way, for what it's worth. πr² (t • c) 02:15, 21 March 2013 (UTC)

To down a beer at each of 11 Pubs is to be smashed. Nick, you outdid me with the translations. I drank and ran before the locals could beat me up, I think. ;~] Rogerhc (talk) 04:32, 21 March 2013 (UTC)

Haha, I'm feeling a bit ill! --Nicholasjf21 (talk) 11:44, 22 March 2013 (UTC)

Comments on m1

www.wikivoyage.org template/temp sky background is pretty. Eleven languages surrounding the Wikivoyage icon is a little awkward though. And it isn't totally obvious what the grid of (sister projects) icons is. --MZMcBride (talk) 01:37, 21 March 2013 (UTC)

True. The current www.wikivoyage.org has these same defects and I haven't thought of any way to solve them. Suggestions? --Rogerhc (talk) 04:32, 21 March 2013 (UTC)

I am not a designer, so I don't have any good suggestions on how to improve the page, but there are several things that I really dislike:

The colored background image is opposite to the style of Wikivoyage and Wikimedia projects in general. They always use simple graphics and mild colors that look much better to my taste. It is kind of ridiculous to have this fancy image on the title page and lots of plain text in individual articles.
Why do we need the words "Travel guide" written under each language? They look excessive.
What shall we do with the 12th, 13th, etc. languages that will imminently appear?
The links to sister projects are not well readable on this background. They take as much space as links to Wikivoyage itself and distract the reader.

--Atsirlin (talk) 06:57, 21 March 2013 (UTC)

Few comments.

- No issue neither with Chrome, Firefox nor IE with both the version of the main pages.

- Comparing just the two versions I would say that the "fullscreen" image (second version) it's better than the first one, but from the first version I'll keep the number of articles because it give at the first glance an idea of the completeness of the project and a stimulus for the writer to do more (e.g. it.wikipeda.org has recently celebrate 1M articles).

- Comparing these two voy home page versions with the other wiki's home pages, I agree with the first comment of Atsirlin, where he says that this style it's not coherent with the others and it's the only fullscreen image in the whole site. I don't say that's it's necessary a bad/wrong thing; it's just something to think of if it worths and/or make sense. --Andyrom75 (talk) 07:24, 21 March 2013 (UTC)

I think (if the words "Travel guide" are kept) for the Russian language the second line should be "Путеводитель" (travel guide), rather than "Туристический" (travellers') as it is now. --Л.П. Джепко (talk) 09:58, 21 March 2013 (UTC)

I see "Travel Guide" is a tricky translation in Russian. Could a few more Russian speakers comment please? Meanwhile, I have changed Mock 1 Russian tag line to "Путеводитель" and left the link title (hover text) as "Russkiy — wikivoyage — Туристический путеводитель". Is it right? Easy for me to cut and paste changes into the Mock; just let me know what the tag line and link title (hover text) should be in Russian. Same goes for other WV languages, too. I can only read and write English, myself. --Rogerhc (talk) 16:47, 21 March 2013 (UTC)

Yes, "Путеводитель" seems to be the best option. It is a straightforward translation of Travel guide.--Ymblanter (talk) 18:58, 21 March 2013 (UTC)

The hover text should be "Русский - Викигид - Путеводитель", all written in Cyrillic letters. --Atsirlin (talk) 19:07, 21 March 2013 (UTC)

I also am not satisfied with Mock 1. I feel it

is too dark, and
has too much info pulling the user in too many directions.

I will try lightening it in a Mock 1.1 later today. As for simplifying the page, something like what Google.com looks like might work but may require a fresh start I. I personally feel we could skip the "portal" thing altogether and go direct to English, with a prominent Language switching element on page and a cookie to remember the users preferred language. However, if we are going to use a "portal" I am thinking making it primarily a Search box with everything else standing off in the wings like Google.com does it might work. --Rogerhc (talk) 17:09, 21 March 2013 (UTC)

1. Hi everyone! I like the general idea of Mock 1 but I also think that it looks a little too dark. It has no proper contrast between text and pictures and the bottom lines in Chinese look like the sort of mandatory information that has to be placed accordingly to local laws but that no one wants them to be read. However, this is my opinion on taking a look at the screenshot above and at the "live version", since the command "preview html" is not working in my browser (Win 7 Pro / Firefox 19.0.2 / Adblock Plus deactivated).

2. I think it would be a good idea to rotate pictures, which could be on a regular basis determined by whatever (season, country, time) but still should be using pictures which can make a good contrast with all the text around.

3. I also like the distribution of text around the logo as a circle, since it could appear to be a telescope or a tire. But a distribution as wings could also be interesting. Wouldn't it? I also like having more languages around the logo, since a few ones (like the current 8 in the "live" version) make the whole image look like empty, as if something was missing or incomplete.

4. Considering the current tag line, one better option for the Spanish title could be "La guía de viaje gratuita" (the free travel guide) instead "guía para viajar" (guide to travel), which is not a correct expression in Spanish.

I guess that's all for the moment on this subject. Cheers from the es-wikivoyage! Soljaguar (talk) 08:22, 22 March 2013 (UTC)

v2

Www.wikivoyage.org template/temp v2, same as Mock 1 but with plain white background. --Rogerhc (talk) 21:06, 21 March 2013 (UTC)

Comments on v2

The Other Projects links have been let out of the coral and need to be wrangled back in again. I'll work on that. --Rogerhc (talk) 21:06, 21 March 2013 (UTC)

This one is more like the other portals (www.wikipedia.org, www.wiktionary.org, etc.). This could be considered good (branding, similarities) or bad (just the same idea with a different logo, etc.). πr² (t • c) 21:23, 21 March 2013 (UTC)

Just go with eight or ten languages around the logo and start a "smaller projects" list. The current model isn't scalable. --MZMcBride (talk) 22:52, 21 March 2013 (UTC)

Lol! I just posted my comments on Mock 1... Anyway, I like this design as well but it looks somehow a little boring. I agree it looks more wiki-alike but I have the feeling that there's something missing that could give this general page a better sense of movement or fun. Soljaguar (talk) 08:30, 22 March 2013 (UTC)

I like this version. Its idea is apparently copied from Wikipedia, but it looks nice and it is better than the previous version with colored background. --Atsirlin (talk) 18:38, 22 March 2013 (UTC)

This version is fine, but if I'm honest, probably no more than that - as Soljaguar it's lacking a certain something. Personally I prefer the coloured background of the earlier prototype. --Nicholasjf21 (talk) 19:16, 22 March 2013 (UTC)

v3

Www.wikivoyage.org template/temp v3, same as v2 but with Other Projects in the wings at page top. --Rogerhc (talk) 23:54, 22 March 2013 (UTC)

Comments on v3

Very nice indeed! That top bar looks great! I'd still like to see a return of the coloured background potentially, but this is really good! --Nicholasjf21 (talk) 00:43, 23 March 2013 (UTC)

I like this one a lot! --Atsirlin (talk) 08:46, 23 March 2013 (UTC)

I like it, but it still feels like something is missing.> Soljaguar (talk) 17:28, 23 March 2013 (UTC)

v5

Www.wikivoyage.org template/temp v5, same as v3 but with sky background.

v4? I did no submitted v4, in which I experimented switching the emphasis in the language links, because having tried it I found it did not communicate well. --Rogerhc (talk) 22:42, 23 March 2013 (UTC)

Comments on v5

v6

Www.wikivoyage.org template/temp v6, same as v5 but with drop shadow highlighting on language links around logo. I will do same for "Wikivoyage"... no time right now... gotta run. --Rogerhc (talk) 23:14, 23 March 2013 (UTC)

Comments on v6

I really like this one. No further comments now. Soljaguar (talk) 00:33, 24 March 2013 (UTC)

Very nice indeed - I like this a lot! I'm not completely sure about the shadows, but it is looking really good. The only thing is, there's a blue bar to the right hand side on the html preview - could we lose it? But really, great work Roger! :) --Nicholasjf21 (talk) 11:13, 24 March 2013 (UTC)

I don't know what is causing the bottom scroll bar to think there is something to scroll right to see. Alas. However, I have now covered that mysterious space with background-size: 102% 100% -- hides the mysterious blue line to right of background which showed when background was width 100% 100% and you scroll right. I think I've used up about all my design momentum now. Hope it has helped. Think I will focus on getting the #Universal Language Selector extension configured for us and installed, next. I think that could make the portal obsolete anyway. Okay with me if we use portal v6 or any other meanwhile. Guess I like v6 best. --Rogerhc (talk) 23:33, 24 March 2013 (UTC)

I think this is great, and, I think I've changed my mind about the shadows too! Now we need to see if we can attract a consensus! --Nicholasjf21 (talk) 23:40, 25 March 2013 (UTC)

This looks really great and original. I could see this being used on [1]. πr² (t • c) 23:58, 25 March 2013 (UTC)

I would just modify the Italian lable "Guida" into "Guida turistica", because the first one is very generic, while the second one is the exact translation of "Travel guide". I tried to ask comment in the it:lounge but no one reply since now. The rest is fine. --Andyrom75 (talk) 19:50, 30 March 2013 (UTC)

Done diff πr² (t • c) 19:52, 30 March 2013 (UTC)

The only issue now is that another language (Ukrainian) has now been launched - we may need to move some links to the bottom again. --Nicholasjf21 (talk) 22:57, 30 March 2013 (UTC)

Also Hebrew. πr² (t • c) 23:13, 30 March 2013 (UTC)

Okay, added those to v6. Will refine the spacing after dinner. Please check the Hebrew and Ukrainian translations for me... --Rogerhc (talk) 01:34, 1 April 2013 (UTC)

Done! Could an admin please take v6 live now? It is more up to date than the current live version (which lacks Hebrew and Ukrainian) and has consensus support above. Thanks! --Rogerhc (talk) 02:54, 1 April 2013 (UTC)

You can add a request on RFH or Talk:Www.wikivoyage.org template (use {{editprotected}}). BTW, the translations look fine to me, but I can have some users who can speak those languages check, if you'd like. πr² (t • c) 03:00, 1 April 2013 (UTC)

I've just put the 'other project' links in a table so they spread across the page equally. Hopefully we can get this implemented soon! --Nicholasjf21 (talk) 15:40, 1 April 2013 (UTC)

Undecided, but not opposed. I'm fine with the v6 if others want it. My misgivings with v6 are that it is too dark, too busy, and finally simply distracting. What does it mean, asks the viewer. Why am I looking at a sunset here? A plain white background is simpler too look at and does not leave the user wondering about these things. Hence, v7. --Rogerhc (talk) 00:07, 2 April 2013 (UTC)

v7

Www.wikivoyage.org template/temp v7, same as v6 but with plain white background.

Comments on v7

How is this different from v3? πr² (t • c) 00:53, 2 April 2013 (UTC)

v7 has:

Bigger "Wikivoyage" wordmark
All 13 languages around logo (v3 has only 11)
Sister projects list at top that stretches when window is very wide.
White text-shadows on wordmark and languages. This of course does not show on white background but would show if, for example, a light blue background were experimented with. It's a carry over from the sunset background code and could be refactored out if consensus moves to a white background.

--Rogerhc (talk) 04:01, 3 April 2013 (UTC)

v8

Www.wikivoyage.org template/temp v8, same as v6 but with lighter sunset image and relocated WIKIMEDIA badge. Work in progress -- gotta go to bed now... --Rogerhc (talk) 06:20, 3 April 2013 (UTC)

+ photo credit (below MEDIAWIKI badge), and switched to a version of the MEDIAWIKI badge that has a opacity 0.25 (25%) background so that it does not pop off the page so much. This version of the badge needs some fine tuning as the text is getting lost. Where can I get an SVG of the MEDIAWIKI badge from which to work? I've contacted User talk:Philippe (WMF)#Transparent WIKIMEDIA badge for guidance on that. --Rogerhc (talk) 04:11, 6 April 2013 (UTC)

+ links to "Terms of Use" and "Privacy Policy" at bottom. Just noticed those two links at page bottom on the current portal, www.vikivoyage.org. Guess we should keep those. --Rogerhc (talk) 06:01, 6 April 2013 (UTC)

Comments on v8

Support Very very nice! --Nicholasjf21 (talk) 10:36, 3 April 2013 (UTC)
Support πr² (t • c) 17:19, 9 April 2013 (UTC

Support I have put the request in at Talk:Www.wikivoyage.org_template#Proposal for an admin to take us live with v8. The lighter background has resolved my former doubts. --Rogerhc (talk) 17:25, 9 April 2013 (UTC)
It would be nice to get rid of the horizontal scroll bar. It seems to be related to the "other projects" bar across the top. Nurg (talk) 04:46, 18 May 2013 (UTC)

I agree - is this do-able? --Nicholasjf21 (talk) 17:26, 20 May 2013 (UTC)