Talk:WMDE Technical Wishes/Move files to Commons

Alpha test

General feedback

• I'm looking at the file [1], it has indeed been imported so that the page history is intact and the file was apparently uploaded in 2015. There's no indication in the File History section that the file has been imported from another Wiki: maybe there should be, to preserve that aspect of the history and potentially avoid confusion? Ghouston (talk) 03:24, 19 April 2018 (UTC)
• Will it affect bots that monitor the most recently uploaded files? They may not process these ones if they have a fake date. Ghouston (talk) 03:24, 19 April 2018 (UTC)
• Will we have files that are apparently uploaded before the date that Commons was founded? Would that be weird? Ghouston (talk) 03:24, 19 April 2018 (UTC)
• I think all the above problems, plus any need to keep the Original Upload Log, could be fixed by a) on the old, fake file history lines, add a suffix that says what Wiki the event actually happened at, like (enwiki) b) add a new history line to record the transfer to Commons, this will set the file upload date on Commons to the date of the transfer. Ghouston (talk) 03:37, 19 April 2018 (UTC)

• Hello @Ghouston: about b): Information about the transfer is being preserved in the version history. Example:
  13:51, 18 April 2018‎ Lealea (talk | contribs)‎ m . . (3,381 bytes) (+176)‎ . . (Imported with FileImporter from https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Cirrus_front_over_Austnesfjorden,_Austvågøya,_Lofoten,_Norway,_2015_April.jpg)
  Would this solve the problems you mentioned? If not, could you elaborate a bit what this is lacking and why? Thanks! -- Best, Johanna Strodt (WMDE) (talk) 09:14, 23 April 2018 (UTC)

• @Johanna Strodt (WMDE): I noticed that it was in the file history. I think my main concern is that it would break the Allimages API, when sorting files by timestamp to find recently uploaded files. I suppose my suggested fix may not be desirable if it would require making a duplicate copy of the file. Ghouston (talk) 00:56, 24 April 2018 (UTC)

• If user has local admin flag, they should be able to delete local files right away, but #User rights don't mention it. — regards, Revi 10:32, 19 April 2018 (UTC)
• Is this a typo: “On a local file page, the logged in user can click on an "Import to Commons" link” (italic by me)? Shouldn’t this mean Export? — Speravir (talk) – 21:48, 20 April 2018 (UTC)

• @Speravir: Our reasoning was that Commons is in the tool’s focus and from a Commons perspective what happens is an import. But depending on the viewpoint, both import and export can make sense. We’ll keep thinking about this. -- Best, Johanna Strodt (WMDE) (talk) 16:14, 24 April 2018 (UTC)

Oh, for me it’s the viewpoint, that I am on another wiki and have to export to Commons, Johanna. If the tool was started from Commons the files would be imported. — Speravir (talk) – 17:52, 2 May 2018 (UTC)

• What does copied mean: Is it not anymore deleted on the original wiki? What happens then if the local copy is altered, file or description? How to deal with existing redirects – what happens now if they exist? — Speravir (talk) – 22:11, 20 April 2018 (UTC)

• @Speravir: The deletion of local files is not included in this feature because the local wiki has to decide what to do with a file. So after an import, the FileImporter suggests to add the template “nowCommons” to the local file so that the local wiki can decide what to do with it. As it is likely that “nowCommons” files will be quickly deleted by most wikis, there won’t be a synchronization between the two files. Redirects won’t be imported. On a redirect page, the “Import to Commons” link won’t be shown. But existing redirects should still work if you import a file – except for when the file title was changed during the import. -- Best, Johanna Strodt (WMDE) (talk) 10:05, 2 May 2018 (UTC)

Oh, yes, Johanna, my mistake. It’s the same now, and why change this. — Speravir (talk) – 17:52, 2 May 2018 (UTC)

• I've tested this file and found no issues so far. Although, I think the 1st revision on 26th April shouldn't exist (to avoid confusion). Thank you for this amazing tool. Cheers, Rehman 09:10, 26 April 2018 (UTC)
• Speaking of export and import above: There are frequently files that have to be deleted on Commons but are allowed on some local wikis (everyone with fair use rules). For these cases the extension set could be useful, too, in the opposite direction. The test does exactly this. — Speravir (talk) – 17:52, 2 May 2018 (UTC)

Original Upload Log

Considering that the MediaWiki feature we’re working on will import the version history properly, do you consider it necessary to still provide the Original Upload Log? If so, why?

• Shouldn't be needed as long as all the information is present in the File History, e.g., the wiki where the file was originally uploaded and its name at that wiki, and the date it was transferred to Commons, and maybe who transferred it. Ghouston (talk) 04:13, 19 April 2018 (UTC)
• I tested files with suppressed previous revisions - it just failed. Maybe it should leave a note on file description (There was suppressed previous version blah blah) and let it go. — regards, Revi 14:22, 19 April 2018 (UTC)

  @-revi: Can you give an example of a file that failed? -- Thanks, Johanna Strodt (WMDE) (talk) 15:00, 19 April 2018 (UTC)

  this one. — regards, Revi 15:08, 19 April 2018 (UTC)

  @-revi: Thanks! -- Johanna Strodt (WMDE) (talk) 13:25, 23 April 2018 (UTC)

CommonsHelper

I think it is important to get Magnus Manske at least informed or if possible to get involved him: He is the author and maintainer of the wonderful CommonsHelper which I frequently use. Magnus’ tool had either to be rewritten or would be obsolete. In the latter case more users had to be involved: The way I use the helper is actually by a userscript of Schnark, and there may be more cases. — Speravir (talk) – 22:03, 20 April 2018 (UTC)

@Speravir:: Thank you! Yes, we are in touch with Magnus Manzke. -- Best, Johanna Strodt (WMDE) (talk) 15:41, 24 April 2018 (UTC)

Oh there is also toolforge:commonshelper2 which I did not know until now and hence cannot say anything about this. — Speravir (talk) – 22:06, 20 April 2018 (UTC)

@Speravir: https://tools.wmflabs.org/commonshelper2 leads to an error page. Did you mean https://tools.wmflabs.org/admin/tool/commonshelper2 ? -- Best, Johanna Strodt (WMDE) (talk) 15:41, 24 April 2018 (UTC)

Yes, Johanna, sorry that I didn’t check the link I provided. I found it by searching for Commons in Toolforge. — Speravir (talk) – 17:45, 24 April 2018 (UTC)

@Speravir: No worries and thanks for confirming. -- Best, Johanna Strodt (WMDE) (talk) 07:06, 25 April 2018 (UTC)

Fair use

Hi. Is there a way to block moving fair use files? Thank you. IKhitron (talk) 15:47, 7 June 2018 (UTC)

@IKhitron: Yes, there is. The FileImporter checks if the source file a) has a template that explicitly allows a transfer to Commons OR b) if it has a template that prohibits the transfer. In order to determine that, the FileImporter uses the configuration files from the CommonsHelper2 tool. There is a list for each wiki (example he-wiki) and the lists can be maintained by the community. -- Best, Johanna Strodt (WMDE) (talk) 08:42, 8 June 2018 (UTC)

Great, thank you. IKhitron (talk) 08:49, 8 June 2018 (UTC)

Local admin

"Our feature does not delete files. Instead, it asks users to add a template (e.g. {{nowCommons}}) to the local file so that local admins can start the cleanup process."

If the user is the admin on local, they should be able to delete it right away, without the unnecessary fuss like that template. — regards, Revi 16:32, 7 June 2018 (UTC)

@-revi: Yes, admins in the local wiki are able to delete them right away. Adding a template is merely a suggestion so that each wiki can proceed with their individual process for moved files. -- Johanna Strodt (WMDE) (talk) 08:58, 8 June 2018 (UTC)

If I recall correctly, current CommonsHelper have a link to ?action=delete (at least), and without it, this tool will introduce a regression. — regards, Revi 09:00, 8 June 2018 (UTC)

@-revi: Having a link that directly leads to the deletion page is not planned currently, but I created ticket to further discuss this.

Tracked in Phabricator:
Task T196735 -- Best, Johanna Strodt (WMDE) (talk) 09:35, 8 June 2018 (UTC)

Local image

4 says: "If the file name hasn’t changed, the local wiki will automatically show the Commons file instead of the local file on its pages." That sounds strange. So some local files will show up ("old files") even if there is an image on Commons with the same name. The "new type" of local files will not show up? Christian75 (talk) 06:21, 12 June 2018 (UTC)

• It has always been the case that people upload images to Wikipedia, and then someone accidentally uploads a different file to Commons with the same name. I think that it would be problematic if the Commons file is then shown on all pages on Wikipedia as Wikipedia probably expects the local file instead.

There are templates (d:Q10513536) to mark local files which hide Commons files, thereby indicating that there is a filename mismatch which needs to be resolved. However, I think that it is undesirable to show the Commons file until this has been resolved. --Stefan2 (talk) 11:47, 12 June 2018 (UTC)

@Stefan2: - But that not what the text says. It says "If the file name hasn’t changed, the local wiki will automatically show the Commons file instead of the local file on its pages". Maybe they ment it will show the Commons version after some admin deleted the local one. I was just surprised... Christian75 (talk) 14:30, 13 June 2018 (UTC)

@Christian75 and Stefan2: That's a good point! You're right. The text on the front has been changed now, hopefully making this clearer. -- Best, Johanna Strodt (WMDE) (talk) 09:11, 14 June 2018 (UTC)

Move the link to the dropdown menu

1: Click "Export to Wikimedia Commons" on a local file page

Hello, per this screenshot the link will be near "Read", "Edit", and "View history". But is it possible to add it to the "More menu, like the "Move" link. This feature is an action and has its place in the dropdown menu IMO. Thanks ! --Framawiki (talk) 20:06, 13 June 2018 (UTC)

@Framawiki: Thank you for your question and suggestion! We'll give it some more thought where to best put the link. -- Best, Johanna Strodt (WMDE) (talk) 07:56, 19 June 2018 (UTC)

Update wikilinks

Tracked in Phabricator:
Task T198584

I've been playing around with this tool a bit, and noticed that it causes lots of redlinks because it doesn't update wikilinks to point to the originating wiki. This can be fixed manually, but it would make sense for the tool to do this automatically. For example, I imported the file File:1st Security Force Assistance Brigade Flash.svg, and had to manually change [[1st Security Force Assistance Brigade]] to [[:en:1st Security Force Assistance Brigade|1st Security Force Assistance Brigade]], [[United States military beret flash|unit flash]] to [[:en:United States military beret flash|unit flash]], and [[User:McChizzle]] to {{User at project|McChizzle|w|en}}. It seems like it should be a fairly easy task to add the originating wiki's interwiki code and to pipe wikilinks that now need piping to hide the code. Detecting usernames and using {{User at project}} would be useful too. Bonus points if the code is smart enough to only do it to redlinks. --Ahecht (TALK
PAGE) 02:43, 2 July 2018 (UTC)

@Ahecht: Thanks for your feedback and the tickets you made. We already replace links in the edit summary and links to user names in the revision history. Besides, we’re considering to have the URL in the import comment (in the file info) as a short interwiki link, too. Fixing the links in the wikitext isn’t currently on our agenda, but we’ll have it on our radar. -- Best, Johanna Strodt (WMDE) (talk) 09:07, 9 July 2018 (UTC)

Default value for parameter in transferred templates

Tracked in Phabricator:
Task T198606

I have been looking at adding to mw:Extension:FileImporter/Data/en.wikipedia to have the tool transfer from en:Template:PD-user to commons:PD-user-w. However, the PD-user template has a third parameter that defaults to "en" if not specified. However, I couldn't find any way to define that in the configuration file. If I entered ;PD-user:PD-user-w|+project=w|language=2|user=1, no value would be transferred for language in most cases. What's needed is a syntax like ;PD-user:PD-user-w|+project=w|language=2|+language=en|user=1, where the tool would interpret that as "set language= to the value of 2=, but if 2= is not defined, set language= to en". --Ahecht (TALK
PAGE) 03:05, 2 July 2018 (UTC)

@Ahecht: Thanks for this remark, too! We’re currently working on the ‘+’ syntax (T198606) so that parameters that were not present in the local file description page can be added to the file on Commons. So far we don’t have plans to implement fallbacks, though. But it’s a valid point you’re raising and we’ll keep it in mind. -- Best, Johanna Strodt (WMDE) (talk) 09:08, 9 July 2018 (UTC)

Geht das auch in Gegenrichtung? // Does this also work in the opposite direction?

Tracked in Phabricator:
Task T214280

Was, wenn Inhalte auf Commons durch anglozentrischen Vandalismus bedroht sind, wie z.B. hier? Können dann die derart bedrohten Inhalte auch einfach in die deutschsprachigen Projekte verschoben werden, um sie vor der Vernichtung zu bewahren? Grüße vom Sänger ♫^(Reden) 10:52, 20 January 2019 (UTC)

EN in a nutshell Sometimes, files have to be deleted from Commons, although they would be allowed on local wikis such as dewiki. For this use case, it would be great if the FileExporter/FileImporter could move files in the opposite direction, from Commons to dewiki etc.

@Sänger: Danke! Bisher geht das noch nicht. Ich hab dazu ein Ticket in Phabricator angelegt, wo wir die Wünsche zum Ausbau der Funktion sammeln. Außerdem hab ich das Anliegen in den FAQ ergänzt.

EN: This request was filed in Phabricator, and added to the FAQ.

Viele Grüße, Johanna Strodt (WMDE) (talk) 09:08, 21 January 2019 (UTC)

Das sollte am besten gleich in einem Aufwasch in alle im weitesten Sinne deutschsprachigen (de, frr, dsb, bar, hsb, nds, pdc, stq...) Projekte (-pedia, -source-, voyage, -tionary, -quote, -News...) erledigt werden, und nicht mühsam einzeln per Hand.

Oder aber es gibt getrennte Lizenzräume auf Commons für verschiedene Rechtssysteme, dann wäre wieder ein einzelnes Repository für das ganze Wikiversum möglich, und die einzelnen Projekte bekämen eingeschränkten Zugriff.

Service: It should be done in one go for all roughly German projects, not one by one by hand. Or there should be different licence areas for different law Systems, so that Commons would again be a single repository for the whole wikiverse, but with different access for the Projects.

Grüße vom Sänger ♫^(Reden) 09:33, 21 January 2019 (UTC)

@Sänger: Hab's im Ticket ergänzt. -- Viele Grüße, Johanna Strodt (WMDE) (talk) 14:51, 21 January 2019 (UTC)