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Talk:Community Wishlist Survey 2022/Mobile and apps/Show editnotices on mobile

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Share your thoughts on feature improvements to content moderation via mobile web

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Latest comment: 2 years ago31 comments14 people in discussion

Hi - I'm the Product Manager for the new Moderator Tools team at the Wikimedia Foundation. We recently conducted some research and determined that making improvements to the mobile web experience was the highest priority to help patrollers, administrators, and other experienced editors who engage in content moderation on Wikimedia projects. We've been reading back through Community Wishlist surveys to inform this decision, and wanted to invite you to give your input at Moderator Tools/Content moderation on mobile web.

We want to learn which features (including, but not limited to, showing editnotices) you think need improvement on mobile web so that we can understand the highest priorities. Your input will be really helpful as we make plans for the upcoming WMF financial year. Samwalton9 (WMF) (talk) 11:27, 7 April 2022 (UTC)Reply

Pinging first set of voters - @Pppery, Xaosflux, MrMeAndMrMe, Certes, Betseg, Shizhao, Jake The Great 908, ಮಲ್ನಾಡಾಚ್ ಕೊಂಕ್, Graham11, Meiræ, Hemantha, Aca, SHEIKH, MdsShakil, ProcrastinatingReader, Wostr, Nw520, Hanif Al Husaini, Effeietsanders, JPxG, Lectrician1, Kasyap, TheInternetGnome, Ameisenigel, Matěj Suchánek, OwenBlacker, Jh15s, Baah Thomas, Man77, Edu!, L736E, Geraki, Titore, L235, FoBe, Libcub, LostMyMind, Daud I.F. Argana, Hb2007, JAn Dudík, IAmChaos, Stwalkerster, Thingofme, 2d37, Flyplanevn27, Cabayi, and Ahecht: Samwalton9 (WMF) (talk) 11:31, 7 April 2022 (UTC)Reply
Pinging second set of voters - @Daniel Case, আফতাবুজ্জামান, JJMC89, AllyD, Sabelöga, Abagofboiledpotatoes, Amorymeltzer, WikiAviator, The ed17, Alexis Jazz, Sdkb, Whisperjanes, Jdlrobson, Bilorv, Pi.1415926535, Addshore, Ericliu1912, KPFC, RoySmith, Vulphere, 尾崎歩夢, Toadspike, Bestoernesto, Beta16, Brewster239, Cybularny, Suonii180, DaxServer, Kaartic, Pbsouthwood, Havarhen, Barkeep49, DarkGlow, Gaurav, 1234qwer1234qwer4, and Brainulator9: Samwalton9 (WMF) (talk) 11:34, 7 April 2022 (UTC)Reply
Ensuring that messaging and notifications of messaging are visible and accessible to mobile editors. This would include editnotices, but also other types of communications such echo notifications and user talk page newmessages - especially for non-logged-in editors. — xaosflux Talk 12:45, 7 April 2022 (UTC)Reply
Removing the ability to suggest short descriptions on mobile users — many articles don't have short descriptions for an explicit reason and it may cause disruptive edits. MrMeAndMrMeLet's talk 13:10, 7 April 2022 (UTC)Reply
@MrMeAndMrMe: I'm not familiar with the feature which enables mobile users to suggest short descriptions - do you know how I can find this to test it out? Samwalton9 (WMF) (talk) 14:11, 7 April 2022 (UTC)Reply
Apologies, I worded this wrong. There is a feature on mobile in the contributions tab that says "add short description". MrMeAndMrMeLet's talk 16:38, 7 April 2022 (UTC)Reply
Articles not having short descriptions for a reason should be marked with {{short description|none}}, and I'm pretty sure those won't be suggested to anyone then. Either way, I don't think this is of high priority for the issue at hand, and it only affects enwiki (also Commons maybe?). ~~~~
User:1234qwer1234qwer4 (talk) 18:51, 7 April 2022 (UTC)Reply
I made w:en:User:Alexis Jazz/EditNoticesOnMobile as I didn't expect the WMF to ever pick it up. (and even now, I expect this project to take 1-2 years before we see anything tangible) Haven't found the time to market it yet. For other issues, just see w:WP:THEYCANTHEARYOU. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 13:33, 7 April 2022 (UTC)Reply
Thank you for recognising this area as a priority. WP:THEYCANTHEARYOU summarises our difficulties in communicating with mobile editors on both web and app. I see that you are concentrating on web improvements. Please consider migrating app users onto the mobile web interface, to improve their experience and save your having to repeat this work in the app. The one area where app seems better than web is custom edit filter messages; perhaps these could be implemented on mobile web before attempting such a migration. Certes (talk) 13:50, 7 April 2022 (UTC)Reply
@Certes Thanks for sharing your thoughts. The apps are handled by other teams so it's unlikely that we'll do any work on them, but I would like to see how we can bring those experiences closer together. I was looking at the Android app's implementation of editnotices, for example (T201597) - that might be the most obvious way to go about things on mobile. What do you think? In terms of edit filter messages, can you clarify what you mean? I see that T281544 was fixed, which was the only edit filter message issue on mobile web that I was aware of. Samwalton9 (WMF) (talk) 09:29, 11 April 2022 (UTC)Reply
Can someone confirm that phab:T281544 addresses our concern with edit filters on Android? On iOS, does the user now see the page content or just "<abusefilter-warning-foo>"? WP:THEYCANTHEARYOU may need updating. Certes (talk) 09:55, 11 April 2022 (UTC)Reply
@Certes Worth noting that I just re-read that ticket properly and it looks like that edit filter issue will be fixed, when the Discussion tools improvements are rolled out to mobile, but might still be present in the current mobile web talk page interface. Samwalton9 (WMF) (talk) 10:15, 11 April 2022 (UTC)Reply
I don't know a lot about medium sized wiki's issues, I can just really speak to the mobile experience on enwiki and to a lesser extent meta. I will say I think there's a pretty big missed opportunity on mobile to visually display information to users that are already present on desktop enwiki. For instance, the topicons enwiki uses to denote protected pages or featured content don't come over to mobile, that feels like a miss. I notice the lack of undo is noted as a possible place to invest effort. That seems wise to me as well. Best, Barkeep49 (talk) 15:24, 7 April 2022 (UTC)Reply
  • I edit on mobile quite a lot (and also on laptop and desktop). It's a nightmare: I find several different interfaces appear unpredictably, in some of which I can edit and in occasional others not. I sometimes have to opt for a too-small version of the normal desktop, to use the facilities I want to use. Editing talk pages is almost impossible unless I only want to give a reply to the latest post on a topic (eg copy-editing my own post needs a lot of chasing around). I use Chrome on an Android phone, and it's all pretty stressful. One problem is the inability to see the title of an article, even if I've got there via a redirect: the lead sentence often doesn't include the "common" form of the name, and can be quite confusing. Any improvements would be welcome. PamD (talk) 20:56, 7 April 2022 (UTC)Reply
    @PamD Thanks for sharing this :) I'd love to know more about the interfaces which appear unpredictably - can you recall which ones have caused you confusion or frustration? In terms of talk pages I believe the Editing team is working on a revamp to bring them in line with the new discussion tools available on desktop, which I'm personally excited for!
    You mentioned not being able to see the title of an article. Is there any chance you could upload a screenshot or otherwise describe what you mean here? I'm not sure how to reproduce this issue. Thanks! Samwalton9 (WMF) (talk) 09:30, 11 April 2022 (UTC)Reply
  • I don't have anything to add beyond what xaosflux said. -- Ahecht (TALK
    PAGE    ) 22:16, 7 April 2022 (UTC)Reply
  • Does MW:Special:Diff/5138556 not mean that this is already an identified priority? If not, why not, given the section heading? And is asking for input at that page asking for people to go to MW:Talk:Moderator Tools/Content moderation on mobile web rather than here? Or did you mean input about/on the subject of that page? Because no-one seems to be going to that page to answer its questions. It would be sadly ironic if "theycanthearyou" was itself not heard because everyone responded here and were meant to respond on a different wiki entirely. ☺ Uncle G (talk) 00:29, 9 April 2022 (UTC)Reply
    Responses in either location are fine! And yes, that's us noting it as a priority, but I wanted to give folks the chance to provide additional context so that we fully understand the issue, and also draw attention to the broader initiative so we can hear about other areas of mobile web requiring attention. Samwalton9 (WMF) (talk) 09:32, 11 April 2022 (UTC)Reply
  • Here is my contrarian opinion: I am a very active editor and administrator on enwiki, and, like PamD, I use Chrome on Android phones, but unlike PamD, it is not "pretty stressful" for me because I use the fully functional desktop site on my phone 99% of the time. The only time I use a desktop computer to edit is when I am working with large image files. Otherwise, I edit with phones. I have written Good articles on the "desktop" site on my phone. I have answered thousands of questions from new editors on the "desktop" site on my phone. I have blocked thousands of spammers and sockpuppets and trolls and vandals on the "desktop" site on my phone. To repeat for emphasis, the "desktop" site is fully functional on 2020s era Android smartphones. Actually, that has been true for a decade. Some people have told me that I must have great vision. That is incorrect. A have terrible vision in one eye, and have suffered from severe amblyopia since childhood. I also have cataracts and glaucoma and other problems with my "good" eye, but I still find it very easy to edit Wikipedia on the "desktop" site on my phone. So my sincere question is, why should the WMF continue making the mobile site the default for people editing on Android phones when the misnamed "desktop" site works perfectly and is fully functional? Why not save massive amounts of money by shutting down all mobile sites and apps, and redirect phone editors to the fully functional "desktop site", which could be renamed the all-purpose site? I have asked these questions repeatedly for years and have never received a good answer. Instead, the WMF keeps pouring good money after bad to improve mobile sites and apps thst are not fully functional, and show no signs of ever being fully functional. Cullen328 (talk) 01:26, 9 April 2022 (UTC)Reply
    Good points. MediaWiki's mobile website and apps were created when mobile phones were feeble by today's standards and couldn't handle the desktop site. That's changed: mobile screen resolution and processor power are now comparable with older low-end PCs which run the desktop site easily. At the very least, make switching to the desktop site a more prominent, encouraged and persistent option in both the mobile website and the app. We want mobile editors' contributions, and we need to be able to communicate with them. Converting them to desktop is far easier than fixing and continuing to maintain mobile versions. Certes (talk) 12:26, 9 April 2022 (UTC)Reply
    For me, I find disappearing 'read' notifications weird. One can see a notification and just try glancing through and something might happen and one leaves the site only to return and the message on the notification is gone and for a newbie internet user who doesn't know that simply going to check browsing history of mobile browser one can recover the message, such a person might not be able to access the message as at when needed. Again, from a recent experience, on the issue of "undoing" edits; why can't one undo changes in a vandalized article automatically except manually after such an article gets vandalized and the action reported (visible from the abuse filter)? If after reporting, one can undo manually and edits would be accepted, why then wouldn't the barrier for automatic "undo"ing just be removed? The page/article abuse filter function and related hidden functions may also be made more visible for mobile editors new in Wikimedia. Thanks. Kambai Akau (talk) 19:35, 9 April 2022 (UTC)Reply
    @Cullen328 I appreciate you sharing this thought, it definitely gives me something to think about.
    I'm glad to hear that you have had a good experience using the desktop site on mobile. We've heard from other editors that they like having a mobile web interface that's better designed for small screens and interactions without a full keyboard/mouse. One editor I was speaking to a few weeks ago spoke about wanting to be able to do some tasks with one hand, just tapping buttons with their thumb, rather than needing to get two hands on their phone and do a lot of typing. Other editors noted that they don't want to have to switch to desktop view because constantly pinching to zoom and navigating all the small buttons which aren't optimised for a small screen was a barrier to them wanting to contribute. Editors who like using the desktop view on their mobile device have definitely been in the minority from my research so far. Do you know of many other editors who are completely happy using the desktop site on their phone?
    It's also worth noting that there are a substantial - and increasing - number of internet users who only use a smartphone to interact with the internet. For many people, well-optimised mobile websites and apps are their only experience of browsing the web. For those users, the desktop Wikimedia sites are, I expect, quite alien compared to the mobile web site. Users who have little-to-no experience of using Wikipedia (or other websites) on a desktop are likely to have a much harder time navigating it on their phone.
    That's my current perspective on this, but since I've only just started researching this topic properly I won't pretend I have all the answers! Samwalton9 (WMF) (talk) 10:10, 11 April 2022 (UTC)Reply

One thing I have noticed (and made a couple of village pump threads about) is that there seems to be some bug with the mobile visual editor where adding templates occasionally vomits a bunch of nowiki tags at random points in the paragraph being edited, which requires substantial cleanup effort even with automated tools. I will have to find some examples to link when I am at my computer.

Speaking of disappearing notification, getting to this specific ping was actually kind of a pain in the arse (I am on my phone right now). It popped up from enwiki when I first opened my phone and checked my watchlist, my phone died, and when I restarted it had stopped showing up in Special:Notifications (not even as a read notif). I am not particularly angry about this, since it is probably a very difficuly problem, but it is kind of lame. JPxG (talk) 16:06, 10 April 2022 (UTC)Reply

@JPxG It would be great if you could find examples - I can pass those along to the Editing team, who I think would be responsible for addressing Visual Editor bugs.
With respect to notifications, I also experienced this issue recently! Unlike on desktop, where a greyed-out notification symbol remains after you read (but don't click or mark as read) a notification, it seems like on mobile they might be marked as read after you just look at them. I also think unexpected things happen, even on desktop, when notifications come from other Wikis. I can't say I understand the system but I'll experiment with it some more. Samwalton9 (WMF) (talk) 10:13, 11 April 2022 (UTC)Reply
I had the same difficulty finding this thread again, even on my laptop - the notification from Meta had disappeared completely, had to go onto Meta and search for Cullen to find it! PamD (talk) 07:39, 12 April 2022 (UTC)Reply
Samwalton9, PamD, JPxG, if I'm not mistaken when you get a notification from another wiki it'll only display while it's fully unread. So greyed-out notifications (read but not clicked or marked as read) only show on the wiki where you received them. I'm guessing this would be by design. — Alexis Jazz (talk or ping me) 12:51, 16 April 2022 (UTC)Reply
  • I'm incredibly glad this is finally being addressed after being the elephant in the room for soo long. My two biggest grievances are the clumsiness of use and the lack of functionality. When viewing Recent changes and clicking on the empty space to the right of the text, I expect to be taken to the diff page. Instead, I'm taken to the user's page. When I reach the diff page after jabbing the diff button and missing a few times, the interface only allows me to thank the user - no reverting. I can revert from recent changes, not having seen the edit, but once I see it, I have to go back, find it again and then revert it. The patrol button is tucked away at the bottom of the edit, and not integrated into the interface (I'd expect it to be to the left side of "Thank", along with the options to undo one and rollback all). Ability to revdel malicious content would also be a big plus. If the user is a vandal, when I go to their userpage and click on the hamburger menu on the right side, I see two sets of menus with identical options, one is covering the right half of the screen, the other is covering the right two-thirds of the screen. Among these options, I can change the user rights, move, delete and protect the page, but I cannot block them to prevent further disruption. Think about this, I can promote them, which can usually wait until I can reach a PC, but not block them when they are causing immediate damage to the project. I think the best way to improve the interface is to streamline the most common moderation tasks people usually do on PC. Try and do them on mobile, and see how much more difficult it is, how much longer it takes, and how unintuitive and even frustrating it is. When you can do them seamlessly on mobile, that's a job well done! Thank you once again for tackling this mountain, I'm very much looking forward to some tangible improvements! —Ivi104 17:40, 13 April 2022 (UTC)Reply
@Ivi104: This is all really valuable, thanks for sharing. Some followup thoughts and questions:
  • Could you share a screenshot of what you mean when you say that you see two sets of menus with identical options? I'm not seeing that myself.
  • I totally missed that you can't block a user, even with Advanced Mobile Contributions turned on! We'd been focusing on content moderation so I hadn't spent much time looking at user moderation features, but this is clearly something you should be able to do - I'm adding this to the list. Samwalton9 (WMF) (talk) 11:05, 14 April 2022 (UTC)Reply
@Ivi104: We've now added a 'Block user' button to the overflow menu on mobile! We also decided to make this menu available to all logged-in users without the need to turn on the Advanced Mobile Contributions setting. You can read more about this and give us feedback on the block functionality at Moderator Tools/Content moderation on mobile web/Overflow menu. Samwalton9 (WMF) (talk) 12:25, 20 May 2022 (UTC)Reply
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