Requests for new languages/Wikipedia Ter Sami

submitted	verification	final decision

	This language has been verified as eligible. The language is eligible for a project, which means that the subdomain can be created once there is an active community and a localized interface, as described in the language proposal policy. You can discuss the creation of this language project on this page. Once the criteria are met, the language committee can proceed with the approval and will verify the test project content with a reliable neutral source, such as a professor or expert. If you think the criteria are met, but the project is still waiting for approval, feel free to notify the committee and ask them to consider its approval. A committee member provided the following comment: Please contribute to the test project. For LangCom: StevenJ81 (talk) 13:51, 10 April 2018 (UTC)[reply]

The community needs to develop an active test project; it must remain active until approval (automated statistics, recent changes). It is generally considered active if the analysis lists at least three active, not-grayed-out editors listed in the sections for the previous few months.
The community needs to complete required MediaWiki interface translations in that language (about localization, translatewiki, check completion).
The community needs to discuss and complete the settings table below:

What	Value	Example / Explanation

Proposal
Language code	sjt (SIL, Glottolog)	A valid ISO 639-1 or 639-3 language code, like "fr", "de", "nso", ...
Language name	Ter Sami	Language name in English
Language name	Saa´mekiill	Language name in your language. This will appear in the language list on Special:Preferences, in the interwiki sidebar on other wikis, ...
Language Wikidata item	Q36656 - item has currently the following values: English label: Ter Sami native label (P1705): sām’e kīll, са̄мя кӣлл instance of (P31)/subclass of (P279): language, modern language / Eastern Sami Wikimedia language code (P424): sjt writing system (P282): Cyrillic script number of speakers, writers, or signers (P1098): 350, 2, 10	Item about the language at Wikidata. It would normally include the Wikimedia language code, name of the language, etc. Please complete at Wikidata if needed.
Directionality	LTR	Is the language written from left to right (LTR) or from right to left (RTL)?
Links		Links to previous requests, or references to external websites or documents.
Site URL	sjt.wikipedia.org	langcode.wikiproject.org

Settings
Project name	Wikipedia	"Wikipedia" in your language
Project namespace		usually the same as the project name
Project talk namespace		"Wikipedia talk" (the discussion namespace of the project namespace)
Enable uploads	yes	Default is "no". Preferably, files should be uploaded to Commons. If you want, you can enable local file uploading, either by any user ("yes") or by administrators only ("admin"). Notes: (1) This setting can be changed afterwards. The setting can only be "yes" or "admin" at approval if the test creates an Exemption Doctrine Policy (EDP) first. (2) Files on Commons can be used on all Wikis. (3) Uploading fair-use images is not allowed on Commons (more info). (4) Localisation to your language may be insufficient on Commons.
Optional settings
Project logo		This needs to be an SVG image (instructions for logo creation).
Default project timezone		"Continent/City", e.g. "Europe/Brussels" or "America/Mexico City" (see list of valid timezones)
Additional namespaces		For example, a Wikisource would need "Page", "Page talk", "Index", "Index talk", "Author", "Author talk".
Additional settings		Anything else that should be set
Once settings are finalized, a committee member will submit a Phabricator task requesting creation of the wiki. (This will include everything automatically, except the additional namespaces/settings.) After the task is created, it should be linked to in a comment under "final decision" above.

I know that it is very hard to make a Wikiproject in a moribund language, but I request to give it just a little chance.

Ter Sami language spoken in Russia; it is one of 9 Sami languages. The exact number of native speakers is unknown in fact - from 2 to 20. Creation of encyclopedia in Ter Sami is the only way to save it. Regards,--Tamara Ustinova 14:29, 15 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Arguments in favour

Support per above--Tamara Ustinova 14:29, 15 November 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Support, but I think that it will never be opened.--U.Steele 02:39, 26 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Support. Probably not a lot of native speakers, but what about the scholars? Anyway, saving small languages and/or their heritage, at least in written form if not in spoken form, is our mission as Wikipedians and obligation as humans. Kubura 03:37, 26 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- It isn't. That's what wiktionary is for. Seb az86556 04:32, 26 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  - Wiktionary and Wikisource aren't popular in Russia.--Tamara Ustinova 11:21, 26 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    - Wiktionary and Wikisource are not able to play a role of a Wikipedia project. Wiktionary is, compared to Wikipedia, like closing a culture in the limits of a folklore society that appears annually on folklore festival or parade. Wikipedia is forcing the author to write more, to use the language, to search and develop the features of the language. Makes him/her to live and think the language. Kubura 03:39, 28 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]
      This user is now global banned, strike his comments? Liuxinyu970226 (talk) 01:56, 10 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
      Since the global ban postdates and has nothing to do with this exchange I see no reason to. * Pppery * _{it has begun} 04:16, 1 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
      @Pppery no reason to? Liuxinyu970226 (talk) 04:58, 1 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
      But that has nothing to do with Kubura. You have just as much authority to strike Kubura's comment on the basis of that discussion as you do to strike Tamara Ustinova's or U.Steele's or Seb az86556's or Ontoi's, AKA none at all. Langcom is quite aware of what happened here and wouldn't approve a project without verification anyway - there's no reason to munge the record like this. * Pppery * _{it has begun} 16:03, 1 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
      @Pppery And why do you, however, think that that user's comment is having good quality? (at the minimum of "least", incubator:Wp/sjt says: The content of this test-project has been deleted because of its poor quality (wrong language).) Still, I'd love to seek for a completed resolve way for such scowiki-like problems. Liuxinyu970226 (talk) 09:18, 9 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Support --Ontoi 12:29, 28 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Just a support? --Liuxinyu970226 (talk) 09:20, 9 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Arguments against

2 speakers? Where are they? Even if, it says they're illiterate. They could probably die at any moment, and there's no grammatical description available. It's impossible to revive something under these circumstances. Seb az86556 18:28, 25 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- The exact number of native speakers is unknown. Oficial statistics: 6 speakers - 1995, 10 - 2004, 2 - 2010. Don't you think it's strange?--Tamara Ustinova 02:50, 26 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  - Whatever it might be, it's clear that it is insufficient. Seb az86556 04:31, 26 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    - I believe you only think so. --Tamara Ustinova 11:24, 26 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]
Sorry, but <20 speakers is practically zero and therefore no viable editing community would emerge even if the project were created. Ruslik 18:29, 26 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]
- OK with that, but how many scholars and scientists know that language? It's the matter of the vividness of the contributor(s) that are willing to work on Wikipedia. Kubura 03:41, 28 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]
  - Unfortunate for you, it has already been decided that there will not be wikipedias in dead languages. Seb az86556 05:16, 28 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]
    - Is it dead language? O_O --Tamara Ustinova 07:54, 28 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]
      - Yes, a language known only by scholars, scientists, and a handful of aging and dying individuals is dead. Provide some links to a newspaper, literature, a radio or TV show, contemporary music (be it rock, pop, rap or whatever), a government or institution which uses the language. Seb az86556 10:24, 28 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]
        It's just funny to read...))) how old are you? Well, your opinion is adopted. I wish you good luck next year. --Tamara Ustinova 10:45, 28 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]
        In other words, you don't have an answer. Seb az86556 18:56, 28 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]
        Trolling?--Tamara Ustinova 20:16, 28 December 2011 (UTC)[reply]
        Seb is a well respected member of the Wikimedia community. You on the other hand I have never heard of... I happen to agree with Seb also. A language with a couple of elderly speakers is not a good candidate for a Wikipedia. As interesting and valuable as the language might be, Wikipedia is simply not the right project for this kind of language. Vibrant small languages (maybe even with as few as 100 speakers), or moribund medium-sized languages (perhaps with over 500 speakers, at the very least) could have potential but would present unique challenges. For a language that will probably cease to be spoken natively within the next decade, the challenges are simply insurmountable. --Node ue 22:07, 28 January 2012 (UTC)[reply]
        I see this request as open (category), so here's my comment. Latin and Old English are then "living languages". About the "elder speakers": consider the situation of the Basque language during Franco's era, that was until 37 years ago. Mostly elder speakers spoke it, so now the grandparents and their grandchildren speak know Basque better then the parents' generation. About the size and challenge: some wikipedia projects will obviously remain very small and will not cross the 10,000 articles, not even in 10 years. Many existing projects have pumped their articlenumber with the bot (cities, villages...); the true vividness of these projects is much smaller. It's reasonable to expect that Ter Sami will have articles about oand related to hunting tools, animal-powered vehicles, forest, meadow, swamp and tundra animals and plants, various bodies of water, animal bodyparts and processing, clothes, some celestial features, weather conditions, family terminology, food, common medicine problems and traditional medicines... Hey, these are the topics to be filled. The world of such tribes have their 1000 "must have" articles that does not have to coincide with "our" "must have" articles. Kubura (talk) 01:20, 11 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Ter Sami have 2 speakers and not real ortography. Gálaniitoluodda (talk) 18:20, 25 January 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose reasons are available at this Incubator deletion discussion. --Liuxinyu970226 (talk) 01:51, 10 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Neutral arguments

Ter Sami has no standard orthography and the ones that have been proposed are complex and hard to interpret. To write Sami I have developed an orthography, as stated here:

A= /a/

AA= /a:/

Å= /ɒ/

B= /b/

CK= /k/*

D= /d/

E= /e/

EE= /e:/

F= /f/

G= /g/

CH= /x/

I= /i/

IJ= /i:/

EI= /ɨ/

J= /j/

K= /k/

L= /l/

M= /m/

N= /n/

NG= /ŋ/

O= /o/

OO= /o:/

P= /p/

S= /s/, /z/

SJ= /ʃ/

T= /t/

U= /u/

W= /u:/

V= /v/

Z= /ts/

ZCH= /ʒ/

DZ= /dz/

DG= /d͡ʒ/

Note that "CK" is used for a final /k/ sound. Some sample text would be this: (Numbers 1-10)

Acht= 1

Keicht= 2

Kolm= 3

Nieele= 4

Veidt= 5

Kudt= 6

Keidzschem= 7

Kachze= 8

Achze= 9

Logke= 10

- -HorseSnack (talk)

Other discussion

I know that Wikipedia is the most well-known of the Wikimedia-projects, so there seems to be a certain prestige attached to having one in a language. But have you considered some of the other projects such as Wiktionary or Wikibooks? For a moribund language with only a few speakers and I'm assuming not very many written materials or dictionaries, one of these projects might accomplish more. Wiktionary could be used simply to collect vocabulary before it is lost as the last fluent speakers pass away and Wikibooks could be useful for creating things like teaching materials, culture-specific instructions etc. I think that for a language like Ter Sami, that might be more useful than having encyclopedia articles. Or these could all be integrated into one project as different name spaces, as has been done on the Alemannic Wikipedia. --Terfili (talk) 16:28, 28 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]

You feel the difference between dialects and languages? Last sentence... it's too funny.))--Tamara Ustinova (talk) 20:00, 29 July 2012 (UTC)[reply]

What are you talking about? --Terfili (talk) 12:17, 28 August 2012 (UTC)[reply]