Requests for new languages/Wikipedia Ottoman Turkish 5

submitted	verification	final decision

	This proposal has been rejected. This decision was taken by the language committee in accordance with the Language proposal policy based on the discussion on this page. A committee member provided the following comment: Only Wikisource wikis in ancient or historical languages are accepted.

The community needs to develop an active test project; it must remain active until approval (automated statistics, recent changes). It is generally considered active if the analysis lists at least three active, not-grayed-out editors listed in the sections for the previous few months.
The community needs to complete required MediaWiki interface translations in that language (about localization, translatewiki, check completion).
The community needs to discuss and complete the settings table below:

What	Value	Example / Explanation

Proposal
Language code	ota (SIL, Glottolog)	A valid ISO 639-1 or 639-3 language code, like "fr", "de", "nso", ...
Language name	Ottoman Turkish	Language name in English
Language name	لسان عثمانى	Language name in your language. This will appear in the language list on Special:Preferences, in the interwiki sidebar on other wikis, ...
Language Wikidata item	Q36730 - item has currently the following values: English label: Ottoman Turkish native label (P1705): لسان عثمانى instance of (P31)/subclass of (P279): extinct language, historical language / Turkish Wikimedia language code (P424): ota writing system (P282): Ottoman Turkish alphabet, Arabic script number of speakers, writers, or signers (P1098):	Item about the language at Wikidata. It would normally include the Wikimedia language code, name of the language, etc. Please complete at Wikidata if needed.
Directionality	RTL	Is the language written from left to right (LTR) or from right to left (RTL)?
Links		Links to previous requests, or references to external websites or documents.
Site URL	ota.wikipedia.org	langcode.wikiproject.org

Settings
Project name	ويكيپديا	"Wikipedia" in your language
Project namespace		usually the same as the project name
Project talk namespace		"Wikipedia talk" (the discussion namespace of the project namespace)
Enable uploads	no	Default is "no". Preferably, files should be uploaded to Commons. If you want, you can enable local file uploading, either by any user ("yes") or by administrators only ("admin"). Notes: (1) This setting can be changed afterwards. The setting can only be "yes" or "admin" at approval if the test creates an Exemption Doctrine Policy (EDP) first. (2) Files on Commons can be used on all Wikis. (3) Uploading fair-use images is not allowed on Commons (more info). (4) Localisation to your language may be insufficient on Commons.
Optional settings
Project logo		This needs to be an SVG image (instructions for logo creation).
Default project timezone	Continent/City	"Continent/City", e.g. "Europe/Brussels" or "America/Mexico City" (see list of valid timezones)
Additional namespaces		For example, a Wikisource would need "Page", "Page talk", "Index", "Index talk", "Author", "Author talk".
Additional settings		Anything else that should be set
Once settings are finalized, a committee member will submit a Phabricator task requesting creation of the wiki. (This will include everything automatically, except the additional namespaces/settings.) After the task is created, it should be linked to in a comment under "final decision" above.

Proposal

Before you start yelling that such a proposal has already been refused I'd like to tell that this time it will be the good one. Why ? Because Ottoman Turkish is not a dead language. It is as dead as Latin, which would be foolish to consider a dead language knowing how many speakers it has. Ottoman Turkish is an incrediblely rich language with a corpus embracing 15th century classical poems as well as modern scientific and political treaties. Then you might think that creating such a Wikipedia would just be Turkish in arabo-persian script but no. Wikiepedia purpose, wikipedia's tenets always have been the ease of the access to the knowledge, the freedom and gratuitousness of knowledge and by accepting to create a wikipedia in Ottoman Turkish you're realising the wet dream of some Turkish nationalists nor history nerds but allowing a maximum of people to access to this language and its content, a maximum of people to reach knowledge and this is the very meaning, the very reason to be of Wikipedia, so creating wikipedias in Ottoman Turkish and other literary languages of our wolrd history must be considered by Wikipedia. I hope you read me until the end and that you will agree with me for the sack of the humanity. Waiting your favourable reply, may you accept the expression of my dearest regards. --L'Effendi (talk) 23:09, 13 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Discussion

Do we have ideas why LPP terms 3rd and 4th can't be the oppose reasons? The language must be sufficiently unique that it could not coexist on a more general wiki. In most cases, this excludes regional dialects and different written forms of the same language, and The language of the proposal has a sufficient number of fluent users to form a viable contributor community and an audience for the content. --Liuxinyu970226 (talk) 05:34, 14 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
While I totally agree that an Ottoman Turkish Wikipedia would not necessarily be the plaything of nationalists or religious ultra-conservatives, and would be as desirable or undesirable as any other Wikipedia in a classic language, I don't think your proposal is helpful. However valid your arguments may be, you say nothing that hasn't been said before - in reference to either Ottoman Turkish or any other ancient language. The discussion will start all over again and the outcome will likely be the same. Steinbach (formerly Caesarion) 20:26, 16 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I would like to say some things as someone who will contribute if it is opened. Many Ottoman works have survived to the present day and Ottoman works are still very common in literature. Although they are often novelized, it is quite easy to show examples in the academic field. There are people actively speaking the language in Northern Iraq, Southeast Turkey, Istanbul and some Balkan cities. Although it is very similar to Turkish, there are some differences, such as the Arabic languages. I don't want to give you a headache with too much technical information. I can say that the language has the manpower to make a potential contribution, albeit limited. It's been 5 years since the last application, and in that time, strange as it may sound, the number of people learning Ottoman Turkish has increased. I would like to give an example from the country I live in. Turkey is made up of 81 provinces and in all 81 of them there is a state course where anyone who wants to learn Ottoman Turkish can do so. In addition, it is considered compulsory in academia, especially among historians and literary scholars. Mustafa MVC (talk) 15:24, 1 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
List of users on the Turkish Wikipedia who speak Ottoman.

List of users on the English Wikipedia who speak Ottoman. Mustafa MVC (talk) 15:28, 1 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I think it would be a useful Wikipedia like Old English. There are people learning Ottoman Turkish in the successor states of the Ottoman Empire, mainly in Turkey. In some villages in Turkey, there are people who continue to speak and write in Ottoman. That's why I think it should be opened. In addition, it would be nice to have a romanization option like in Kurdish Wikipedia to increase interaction. Âfâkî  ^💬 13:48, 2 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Oppose , there is no real use of this language in world ----modern_primat ඞඞඞ ^TALK 17:17, 8 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
and per Steinbach . ----modern_primat ඞඞඞ ^TALK 17:19, 8 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
also even modern turkish language wikipedia isnt even in good shape(not in bad shape too). so; improve your own, widely in use, modern language wikipedia instead make this discussion. ----modern_primat ඞඞඞ ^TALK 23:49, 19 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Support Many Turkish people has knowledge in Ottoman Turkish and they can edit. An example there are also Esperanto or Latin Wikipedia's and actually this languages has not native speakers. Zolgoyo (talk) 07:41, 14 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
@Zolgoyo Current LPP policy does not allow Wikipedia for extinct languages and Ottoman Turkish is an extinct language, that's why this RFL will likely be rejected. Liuxinyu970226 (talk) 08:32, 14 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
@Liuxinyu970226 Better is when the Language committee makes a discussion about the great languages (like Ancient Greek, Ottoman Turkish etc.) to give a chance. Where this languages has a great meaning in history. Zolgoyo (talk) 08:59, 14 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Strong support. This language is not extinct. Its still studied and learned by Ottoman history scholars, and having a Wikipedia version with this written form of Turkish will certainly shed light on it for the Turkish people and Scholars in Particular, and help preserve it for new generations. Add to that, we still have lots of public domain sources that were written in Ottoman Turkish, and using this Wikipedia we can help preserve them as well. I just tend to prefer its title to be «عثمانليجه». Best--باسم (talk) 11:19, 24 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
""Scholars""

i dont believe "scholars" need an information about a village in argentina in ottoman turkish language. ----modern_primat ඞඞඞ ^TALK 11:30, 25 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Actually there are indeed funs wanna write Turkish in Arabic scripts, as suggested on the 4th request, but even in this case, wouldn't mw:LanguageConverter be more useful? Liuxinyu970226 (talk) 11:04, 1 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Strong support. Not dead! still used for scholar pupouses --Michel Bakni (talk) 11:22, 24 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
11:19 and 11:22, of course there is no en:w:WP:CANVASS-ing :)?

im here for to write: "Göktürkçe" is way better than this. ----modern_primat ඞඞඞ ^TALK 00:30, 25 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Asked for checking Liuxinyu970226 (talk) 03:36, 25 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Strong support. Its good to keep a historic language alive, making a Wikipedia for it is very good for preserving it and making it gain new learners. I myself would contribute in such a Wiki. Xaneqînî (talk) 18:41, 14 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
@Xaneqînî Have you read LPP? Historic languages are no longer allowed anywhere on the whole Incubator. Liuxinyu970226 (talk) 02:55, 15 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Strong oppose.--Fenikals (talk) 16:31, 3 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Strong oppose while it might technically be as much of an independent language as something like Middle English any extinct language is automatically invalid. The only reason Latin, Old English, Gothic and other dead language editions exist is because they were created before the rules changed. Dronebogus (talk) 11:48, 12 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]