Requests for comment/Change map of Azerbaijan article on hywiki
The following request for comments is closed. Closing as unsuccessful as there is no credible evidence to suggest this conversation requires a global discussion. It appears that this request for comment is in regards to a content dispute of a file hosted on Wikimedia Commons that is used on Armenian Wikipedia (and other projects, most likely). Please resolve this content dispute through dispute resolution on the project hosting the content. ~riley (talk) 06:02, 15 January 2020 (UTC)[reply]
Nagorno-Karabakh is a disputed territory, internationally recognized as part of Azerbaijan, but most of the region is governed by the Republic of Artsakh (formerly named Nagorno-Karabakh Republic), a de facto independent state with Armenian ethnic majority established on the basis of the Nagorno-Karabakh Autonomous Oblast of the Azerbaijan Soviet Socialist Republic. I took this sentence from English Wikipedia. But this map used in Azerbaijan article on Armenian Wikipedia. I want change it a few time ago, but my edits reverted. This is a problem, because this map used only Armenian Wikipedia and Nagorno-Karabakh separated from Azerbaijan. It can not acceptable by NPOV. Some users also want change map, you can look talk page of article, my talk page and Steward requests. @NMW03:, @MJL:, @Ajraddatz:, @-revi:, @Xelgen:, @WhisperToMe: please write your comments. — The preceding unsigned comment was added by Drabdullayev17 (talk) 07:10, 12 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]
The problem is not just the map. You can look this edit. Sysops of Armenian Wikipedia are not a neutral. They try to give a false information. --NMW03 (talk) 07:59, 12 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]
- Even it looks like the admin just evades from answering your question. This is just a blatant form of propaganda in my opinion.--Toghrul Rahimli (talk) 10:46, 12 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]
- You seriously (and I mean seriously) want to create a global RFC just to change one freakin' map? — FR 10:53, 12 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]
- FR30799386, it's a very important topic. Please consider taking a look at NMW's edit. Admin rollbacked it and now they just deleted the total area of Azerbaijan (86.6). You support naming the Armenian genocide article but not this one? If one is neutral, they have to respect the both sides. --Toghrul Rahimli (talk) 11:20, 12 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]
- FR30799386, It is not a just freakin' map. It is very serious, because territory of Azerbaijan is not demonstrating properly. It is against international law, Republic of Artsakh is not recognized territory. Also reverting of NMW03's edit on Armenian Wikipedia show it is about separate NK from Azerbaijan. --Drabdullayev17 (talk) 12:25, 12 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]
- I'm still not convinced that this amounts to anti-Azerbaijani propaganda that you all seem to be proclaiming. The local community appears to have agreed to add a caption to the picture which admits that the picture doesn't depict all the territories claimed by Azerbaijan. — FR 15:27, 12 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]
- I don't know if there are any other POV issues in hyWiki aside from the map. That is something that OP and other editors of hyWiki will need to prove. However I do believe that if this RfC moves forward in its current form it can turn into a slippery slope of MetaWiki deciding on which maps should be used in situations like this even on Wikis like enWiki. Some examples include:
- azWiki currently uses a map that colors Artsakh in dark green on their version of Azerbaijan. hyWiki editors could in turn open a global RfC to have the map changed to have Artsakh colored in light green.
- ruWiki currently uses maps that shade Crimea in light green in their versions of Ukraine and Russia. While ukWiki uses the map that colors Crimea in dark green on their version of Ukraine but omits Crimea completely from the map used on their version of Russia. I could see a global RfC to change the map used on the ukWki's article about Russia that includes Crimea in light green.
- So in short I think Meta really should think about the consequences of an RfC like this because it will be one that can potentially disrupt the local autonomy of all the Wikis when it comes to maps in regards to disputed territories. Alucard 16 (talk) 04:54, 13 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]
- I don't know if there are any other POV issues in hyWiki aside from the map. That is something that OP and other editors of hyWiki will need to prove. However I do believe that if this RfC moves forward in its current form it can turn into a slippery slope of MetaWiki deciding on which maps should be used in situations like this even on Wikis like enWiki. Some examples include:
- I'm still not convinced that this amounts to anti-Azerbaijani propaganda that you all seem to be proclaiming. The local community appears to have agreed to add a caption to the picture which admits that the picture doesn't depict all the territories claimed by Azerbaijan. — FR 15:27, 12 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]
- FR30799386, It is not a just freakin' map. It is very serious, because territory of Azerbaijan is not demonstrating properly. It is against international law, Republic of Artsakh is not recognized territory. Also reverting of NMW03's edit on Armenian Wikipedia show it is about separate NK from Azerbaijan. --Drabdullayev17 (talk) 12:25, 12 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]
- FR30799386, it's a very important topic. Please consider taking a look at NMW's edit. Admin rollbacked it and now they just deleted the total area of Azerbaijan (86.6). You support naming the Armenian genocide article but not this one? If one is neutral, they have to respect the both sides. --Toghrul Rahimli (talk) 11:20, 12 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]
- You seriously (and I mean seriously) want to create a global RFC just to change one freakin' map? — FR 10:53, 12 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]
- I'm not convinced that this is some huge NPOV wrong by using a map that doesn't have a light green area. That said, please provide some evidence of local discussion beyond talking with one sysop. Have you used the talk page of the article? Have you attempted discussion in a central venue? – Ajraddatz (talk) 10:57, 12 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]
- Dear @Ajraddatz: yes I try talked on my talk page. But I threatened about blocking. --Drabdullayev17 (talk) 12:20, 12 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]
- (Edit conflict.) (Disclaimer I'm using Google Translator when reading hyWiki) When looking at the talk page for Azerbaijan in its current form there was a discussion about the map in 2008 and from what I can tell with the few editors that took part the consensus is not to include Artsakh. The topic was again brought up by an Azerbaijani editor (writing in Russian) and the Armenian editor who started the 2008 discussion replied because Artsakh is part of the de facto territory of Azerbaijan is why it was omitted. The Azerbaijani editor rebutted that the map for Georgia includes Abkhazia and South Ossetia. The Armenian editor reinstated the version of the map without Artsakh and reaffirmed the local consensus (use the map of Azerbaijan without Artsakh). In 2014 someone brought up the topic of the map but the entire comment is struck out with no reply. In 2016 it looks like a Russian editor (I'm going based off the name) brought up the topic of the map again but no one from hyWiki replied. In February 2019 the OP of this RfC asked "I am so sorry because I wrote in English. Why you revert my edit for map? Nagorno-Karabakh is de-jure part of Azerbaijan. Why you change it?" and no one from hyWiki replied. I did not dive into the edit history of the talk page to see if anything had been reverted/removed.
- Looking at the history of the article itself anytime the map is changed to the version used by other Wikis the editors of hyWiki will revert it usually in a quick manner. After two English editors changed the map on June 11th an admin has now applied semi-protection to the page according to the translator the reasons was they were editing in English. Now if we take a look at some other states with limited recognition similar to Artsakh the editors of hyWiki use the neutral maps that are in use on other Wikis like enWiki. Examples include Georgia includes Abkhazia and South Ossetia, Serbia includes Kosovo, Moldova includes Transnistria, Cyprus includes Northern Cyprus and Crimea is shown on the maps of both Ukraine and Russia.
- So while I don't think there is an overall huge NPOV issue over at hyWiki there is at least a POV issue when it comes to showing Artsakh with Azerbaijan while the Wiki remains neutral to other countries in similar situations as I mentioned above. Alucard 16 (talk) 12:27, 12 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]
- On Albanian Wikipedia, the map of Serbia does not include Kosovo. --Agusbou2015 (talk) 02:52, 16 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]
- So while I don't think there is an overall huge NPOV issue over at hyWiki there is at least a POV issue when it comes to showing Artsakh with Azerbaijan while the Wiki remains neutral to other countries in similar situations as I mentioned above. Alucard 16 (talk) 12:27, 12 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]
- This is the reason why I'm mostly adapting the maps which Wikivoyages use than Wikipedias, are there having such conflicts on Wikivoyage language versions? --Liuxinyu970226 (talk) 21:36, 13 June 2019 (UTC)[reply]