Grants talk:PEG/WM UA/Wikimedians to the Games

Evaluation by the GAC

GAC Members who approve this grant request

1. MADe (talk) 21:48, 18 February 2014 (UTC) Might be interesting to apply for an Wikinews press card with the Foundation. This might give you more opportunities to take pictures.

   Please note that participants will have media accreditations (see line 4 of the request) — NickK (talk) 00:07, 19 February 2014 (UTC)

2. Béria Lima ^msg 01:43, 21 February 2014 (UTC) My only - half question - is: Why 2 types of rooms? One with 3 and another with 2 beds?

   We have three male participants that will live in a triple room and one female who will have a double room (this hotel has no single rooms) — NickK (talk) 04:05, 21 February 2014 (UTC)

3. I hope this gets immediate WMF nod, the project is very interesting. Good luck! -- Roel (talk) 04:22, 21 February 2014 (UTC)

GAC Members who oppose this grant request

1. First, this application is partly retrospective, which should be discouraged in principle. Second, can there be evidence of journalistic and photographic skills? This is a crucial matter if donors' money is to be spend in this way. I can't see value for money at the moment. Tony (talk) 13:28, 21 February 2014 (UTC)

   Hi Tony,

   • This application is retrospective only in the part that the project was launched before we sent a grant request. We have applied for funding only after getting official Olympic media accreditations. We know that it was quite late, but unfortunately we cannot control the media accreditations process
   • Concerning journalistic and photographic skills, all these users are established Wikinews contributors: see contributions for Fed4ev, Ilya, OlgaKolomoets and Yakudza. OlgaKolomoets is a professional journalist who has made a number of interviews on TV (these videos were all aired on a Ukrainian TV channel). Ilya and Yakudza are active contributors to Commons, Ilya has covered various sports, art and culture events using WMUA grant camera, Fed4ev has an experience of media coverage of sports events. We believe that these users have enough experience and qualification for this project and will be able to deliver high-quality contributions — NickK (talk) 23:26, 21 February 2014 (UTC)

Timing question

Thank you for your proposal. We we will be making a decision within the next 24 hours. Please note that while the Paralympic games start in 9 days, we will not be able to wire you the money before at least 2 weeks. Are you prepared to commit to spending in advance and to be reimbursed at least 2 weeks later? Alex Wang (WMF) (talk) 03:51, 26 February 2014 (UTC)

Notes on Approval

We approve this grant request and applaud your efforts to increase coverage of Paralympic and disabled athletes on Wikipedia Projects.

Please note that we are not interested in supporting the development of content for Wikinews because we do not consider it to be impactful. This grant will be evaluated based on content contribution to Commons and Wikipedia only. It is fine for you to include Wikinews activity in your trip to Sochi, but those contributions should not be included in your measures of success.

Unfortunately, we will not be able to provide backpacks for volunteers, but will look into the cost of express shipping for the t-shirts and pins. Please let us know if you have questions. Alex Wang (WMF) (talk) 17:59, 26 February 2014 (UTC)

I find this message regarding (the lack, and active discouragement, of) supporting smaller projects very sad. A year ago this was not so. :-( Raystorm (talk) 18:32, 26 February 2014 (UTC)

I'm sorry this makes you sad. I think despite the morale cost to volunteers invested in these projects, it is incumbent upon us to ensure impactful spending of movement funds, and I fail to see how Wikinews (in this case, but equally some of the other smaller projects) meets that requirement.

I do think this should be discussed in a larger context and with a broader contextgroup, and have several times tried to get the WMF Board to discuss this and to perhaps formally acknowledge some of these projects as unimpactful, which would help other movement groups align more strategically. So far, the Board has not taken this up. I, for one, would welcome a movement-wide conversation on this, and have improvised an opening statement last year at the Wikimedia Conference. While there was a surprising amount of support to that talk (along with a few dissenting voices), no one has picked up the conversation since. Asaf Bartov (WMF Grants) talk 21:51, 10 March 2014 (UTC)

Small projects have no impact because they have no support and have no support because they have no impact. I'm familiar with this logic. In this case, this request is being funded in its entirety, but volunteers are being actively discouraged of pursuing the Wikinews measures of success (which I'd be surprised if it doesn't hamper them, I wonder how they are going to upload pics to Commons with the license restrictions specific to the Olympic and Paralympic Games). That is what I find sad, the We are not interested in supporting the development of content for Wikinews part. We do need an improved understanding of expectations and impact. :-( Raystorm (talk) 07:03, 11 March 2014 (UTC)

I completely disagree that the reason Wikinews has no impact (I'm glad you agree it doesn't) is that it has no support. I think it has a lot more to do with a lack of coherent identity (e.g. is it a news-aggregation service? is it strictly original reporting? different language Wikinews projects have different ideas on that one.) and an insufficient value-proposition (how is Wikinews serving a need not served (or served worse) by other actors, including mainstream and alternative media, blogs, etc.). Were these not an issue and were Wikinews showing clear (if limited) value, I'd have been happy to commit funds to supporting it.

Again, I'm happy to take part in a broader discussion of this. If you agree it merits discussion, perhaps it can be added to the agenda of one of the board's future sessions (I realize it's not the top of the list of things on the board's mind, of course). Even commissioning a study or a fact-finding process to feed into such a conversation would be a step forward. Asaf Bartov (WMF Grants) talk 21:12, 12 March 2014 (UTC)

I don't think Wikinews has no impact. I think the expectations outside its communities are very unclear, which is what leads to the lack of support and understanding. I still don't understand why the funding of this request, despite being successful, demanded to drop the Wikinews measures of success. That's active discouragement to contribute content in said project. As such, it bothers me. We should encourage people, not discourage them. But if Board guidance is needed to be applied to all projects, I'm sure that can be arranged. Thank you. Raystorm (talk) 22:20, 12 March 2014 (UTC)