Wikimedia Canada/Meetings/2008-01-23

Organization Meeting of Wikimedia Canada

Initial Informal Meeting

Date: January 23, 2008 (Wednesday)
Time: 20:00 EST (1:00 UTC)
Venue: #wikimedia-ca

This was mainly to get everyone to know each other and to get an idea of where we are heading/what we want to do. The meeting ended at around 21:30 EST.

Log

Logs (long!)

[2008-01-23 21:02:42] * BDerksen nods. To business. [2008-01-23 21:02:50] <OhanaUnited> let's do a round of introduction [2008-01-23 21:03:15] <OhanaUnited> starts off according to nick's alphabetical order [2008-01-23 21:03:32] * BDerksen nods. Az1568 seems inactive right now, so me? [2008-01-23 21:03:40] <coldacid> hrm [2008-01-23 21:03:47] |<-- evanpro has left irc.freenode.net (simmons.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) [2008-01-23 21:03:48] * OhanaUnited pushes BDersken up onto the stage [2008-01-23 21:03:51] <OhanaUnited> lmao [2008-01-23 21:04:21] <BDerksen> I'm User:Bryan Derksen on en.wiki. I'm listed by name in the "see also" section of the Wikipediholics page. [2008-01-23 21:04:44] <BDerksen> I've been Wikipediaing since about four or five months after Wikipedia started, IIRC. I live in Edmonton, Alberta. [2008-01-23 21:04:54] <OhanaUnited> sorry to interrupt, when u finish introducing, say "next please" [2008-01-23 21:05:36] <BDerksen> Okay. I'm not a very complex person, have I introduced myself to everyones' satisfaction? :) [2008-01-23 21:05:51] <Greeves> yep [2008-01-23 21:05:52] <coldacid> more than i had planned to say about myself [2008-01-23 21:05:57] <BDerksen> Next please, then. :) [2008-01-23 21:06:01] <coldacid> I'm Chris Charabaruk, known as coldacid over most (but not all) of the internet. I live in Pickering, Ontario. [2008-01-23 21:06:04] <coldacid> next please [2008-01-23 21:06:25] <Greeves> I'm Mitch, a Wikipedian in Winnipeg, MB. [2008-01-23 21:06:42] <Greeves> Not much more to say... next please! [2008-01-23 21:07:07] * Shannie wonders if kibble is going. :O [2008-01-23 21:07:11] <kibble> O_O [2008-01-23 21:07:18] <Greeves> Hi kibble! [2008-01-23 21:07:22] * kibble is Mr kibble [2008-01-23 21:07:37] <Shannie> He is, and also American. ;) [2008-01-23 21:07:39] <kibble> Casey, from US but am Canadian heritage :-D [2008-01-23 21:07:48] * Greeves coughs [2008-01-23 21:07:49] <Shannie> :D [2008-01-23 21:07:52] <Greeves> lol [2008-01-23 21:07:56] <BDerksen> Well, we'll allow you to stay, in that case. :) [2008-01-23 21:08:13] <Mike_lifeguard> I'm Mike, from Canmore [2008-01-23 21:08:19] <Shannie> :p [2008-01-23 21:08:20] * Mike_lifeguard couldn't help himself [2008-01-23 21:08:28] <coldacid> heh [2008-01-23 21:08:30] * BDerksen envies you the ability to use that line with a straight face [2008-01-23 21:08:37] <Mike_lifeguard> uhh no. I'm from Wikibooks or NS, depending on your POV [2008-01-23 21:08:55] <Mike_lifeguard> ...next please?? [2008-01-23 21:09:04] <OhanaUnited> ok... [2008-01-23 21:09:57] <Mike_lifeguard> OhanaUnited: .................. that's you [2008-01-23 21:10:00] <OhanaUnited> Hi, I'm Andrew Leung. I am known as OhanaUnited on various WM projects. I live in Richmond Hill, Ontario. I'm a UT student [2008-01-23 21:10:17] <OhanaUnited> that's it for now, next [2008-01-23 21:10:27] <Pathoschild> *wave* I'm [[user:Pathoschild]], from eastern Québec, Canada, bilingually English and French. I'm a steward, OTRSer, language subcommittee member, Meta checkuser, admin on a few wikis. I'm mostly active on Meta and Wikisource. I mostly streamline or maintain (useful) process and policy, and code templates carefully designed for the scientific study of migraines. Whee. Next please. ;) [2008-01-23 21:10:28] * Shannie pokes Pathoschild, who is likely not paying attention. [2008-01-23 21:10:31] <Shannie> :O [2008-01-23 21:10:31] <Pathoschild> Lies. :O [2008-01-23 21:10:48] <Greeves> That was quick [2008-01-23 21:10:49] <Shannie> Truths. [2008-01-23 21:10:58] <OhanaUnited> steward *runs away* [2008-01-23 21:11:14] * BDerksen hehs. But if he could be turned, he could be a powerful ally! [2008-01-23 21:11:15] <Pathoschild> Shannie is by the door. ;) [2008-01-23 21:11:19] <kibble> Pathoschild: O_O [2008-01-23 21:11:34] <kibble> of course, Pathos lists all his things [2008-01-23 21:11:41] <OhanaUnited> lol [2008-01-23 21:11:43] <kibble> and Shannie and I are cool and dont [2008-01-23 21:12:18] <Pathoschild> Or you just can't be bothered, more likely. Lazy people. ;) [2008-01-23 21:12:27] <kibble> :-) [2008-01-23 21:12:29] * BDerksen could have mentioned that he holds the title of Complete and Perfect Tutnum of the Encyclopedia and bears the Plutonium Barnstar, does that help? :) [2008-01-23 21:12:36] <Pathoschild> :D [2008-01-23 21:12:44] <Greeves> oh snap [2008-01-23 21:12:45] <Shannie> I'm [[m:User:Shanel]], Pathoschild's girlfriend. I'm originally from Trinidad and Tobago, but I moved to Mississauga, ON, around the age of 9. I'm now studying at McMaster. I'm a steward, OTRSer, langcom member, and admin on en-source, pedia, and meta. [2008-01-23 21:12:54] <kibble> O_O [2008-01-23 21:12:59] <coldacid> woot, Mac! [2008-01-23 21:13:00] <Pathoschild> :D [2008-01-23 21:13:01] <Shannie> :D [2008-01-23 21:13:05] * kibble stabs Shannie for switching over the darkside [2008-01-23 21:13:06] * coldacid is a Marauders football fan [2008-01-23 21:13:10] <OhanaUnited> another steward?! *hides in a corner* [2008-01-23 21:13:13] <Shannie> :DD [2008-01-23 21:13:20] <kibble> should I invite our new Communications director, you think he'd be interested? [2008-01-23 21:13:25] <kibble> (he's in BC still) [2008-01-23 21:13:29] <OhanaUnited> sure, go! [2008-01-23 21:13:39] <Greeves> Please do Casey. [2008-01-23 21:14:20] <kibble> he's away, he might drop-in [2008-01-23 21:14:44] <Greeves> Thats ok [2008-01-23 21:15:04] <BDerksen> If he misses anything important we can cut and paste to fill him in. [2008-01-23 21:15:13] <OhanaUnited> or just check the log [2008-01-23 21:15:21] <coldacid> i noticed that im the only person using the wmc userbox i made :( [2008-01-23 21:15:29] <Mike_lifeguard> I have it, but substed [2008-01-23 21:15:39] <Mike_lifeguard> , also only on meta [2008-01-23 21:15:56] <Greeves> I use Mike's one on Meta. [2008-01-23 21:15:59] <OhanaUnited> i didnt know there's such a thing, but i changed my wiki's userpage to the WMC notice [2008-01-23 21:16:00] * kibble doesn't ue uerboxes normally [2008-01-23 21:16:16] * BDerksen has only four userboxes on his page in total, I like to keep my userpage simple. [2008-01-23 21:16:40] <OhanaUnited> ok, let's keep to the agenda [2008-01-23 21:16:47] <coldacid> oh, alright [2008-01-23 21:16:48] <Greeves> We dont have one [2008-01-23 21:17:19] <Shannie> Agenda: Not to have an agenda. [2008-01-23 21:17:24] <OhanaUnited> have u guys read the 2 different bylaws? we need to be prepared to discuss it in details on next meeting [2008-01-23 21:17:43] <BDerksen> Right. I'm curious what the state of play of WikiMedia Canada is. Two months back Ray Saintonge emailed me and asked me to be one of the founding board members, and once I'd confirmed that that wouldn't mean I'd have to wear a suit I never heard back from him. [2008-01-23 21:17:53] * kibble stabs Greeves [2008-01-23 21:17:53] <kibble> (diff) (hist) . . Nm Wikimedia Canada/Meetings/2008-01-23‎; 01:08 . . (+189) . . Mike.lifeguard (Talk | contribs) (make room for the log) [2008-01-23 21:17:54] <kibble> (diff) (hist) . . N Wikimedia Canada/Meetings/2007-01-23‎; 01:07 . . (+233) . . Greeves (Talk | contribs) (New page: This was an initial informal meeting held online on IRC in #wikimedia-ca at 1:00 UTC on January 24. This was mainly to get everyone to know each other and to ...) [2008-01-23 21:17:56] <kibble> Greeves: we're in 2008 [2008-01-23 21:18:01] <Greeves> lol [2008-01-23 21:18:03] <Greeves> oops [2008-01-23 21:18:07] <BDerksen> So I don't know if I'm in or what. :) [2008-01-23 21:18:25] <OhanaUnited> i think we can disregard Ray's notice, since he's not here [2008-01-23 21:18:45] <Greeves> I didnt know Mike had created a page. [2008-01-23 21:18:45] <kibble> but he'd still like to be involve [2008-01-23 21:18:56] * Mike_lifeguard is organized [2008-01-23 21:18:57] <kibble> Greeves: he did it a minute afte ryou [2008-01-23 21:18:58] -->| HOTR (n=gerald@CPE0080c6f097c0-CM001ade8537c2.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) has joined #wikimedia-ca [2008-01-23 21:19:01] <OhanaUnited> when i talked to mike last week on msn, he brought up some good points [2008-01-23 21:19:03] <kibble> HOTR: :-D [2008-01-23 21:19:08] <BDerksen> It's just an informal meeting so it's not like there'll be anything particularly binding decided here. [2008-01-23 21:19:12] <Greeves> Kibble: I guess I beat Mike :) [2008-01-23 21:19:17] * HOTR apologizes for being late [2008-01-23 21:19:18] <kibble> :-) [2008-01-23 21:19:19] <OhanaUnited> we need to be familiar with the purpose of creating local chapter [2008-01-23 21:19:19] <Mike_lifeguard> ("msn" = "here") [2008-01-23 21:19:47] <Greeves> http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Step-by-step_chapter_creation_guide [2008-01-23 21:19:48] <Mike_lifeguard> Well my only real issue right now is "What is the grand vision for this thing called "WMC"? [2008-01-23 21:19:50] <OhanaUnited> alright... i'll fill u guys in [2008-01-23 21:19:55] <Mike_lifeguard> because I don't really get it. [2008-01-23 21:20:07] <HOTR> OhanaUnited: I think there is some question about what WMC will end up doing ... and rightfully so. [2008-01-23 21:20:30] <Mike_lifeguard> do we want to deal with what the point is first, then perhaps deal with the process for start-up? [2008-01-23 21:20:36] <Greeves> http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Step-by-step_chapter_creation_guide [2008-01-23 21:20:38] <Greeves> oops [2008-01-23 21:20:41] <OhanaUnited> http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_chapters [2008-01-23 21:20:41] <Greeves> http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Canada/Projects [2008-01-23 21:20:50] <OhanaUnited> and http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Local_chapter_FAQ [2008-01-23 21:20:52] * BDerksen nods. The main reason I leapt at the opportunity is because it got me out of having to run for ArbCom at the time. Doesn't mean I'm not interested, but I don't know what we're doing yet. [2008-01-23 21:20:58] <OhanaUnited> see? we need to do some "reading" [2008-01-23 21:21:26] <OhanaUnited> the FAQ answers almost all of our questions [2008-01-23 21:21:39] * Mike_lifeguard sees nothing terribly grand on /Projects [2008-01-23 21:21:40] * HOTR has a pretty clear idea of some of the things that WMCanada should do, and be doing [2008-01-23 21:22:01] <Mike_lifeguard> ...posters? we hardly need the headache of a charitable org to do that [2008-01-23 21:22:05] <Greeves> Mike: /Projects is just old ideas from ages ago [2008-01-23 21:22:07] <BDerksen> My understanding is that it gives us an official face we can use to go around evangelizing Wikipedia in various ways. [2008-01-23 21:22:13] * kibble nods [2008-01-23 21:22:21] <kibble> chapters can do whatever we want them to do [2008-01-23 21:22:23] <HOTR> WikiMedia :) [2008-01-23 21:22:29] <Greeves> And promoting sister projects [2008-01-23 21:22:34] <Greeves> not just wp [2008-01-23 21:22:35] <OhanaUnited> ok, let's hear HOTR's plan [2008-01-23 21:22:36] * HOTR agrees with Kibble [2008-01-23 21:22:36] <kibble> it's smart of us to figure out what we want to do right now :-) [2008-01-23 21:22:39] <Mike_lifeguard> BDerksen: evangelism is certainly something we need to be doing [2008-01-23 21:22:50] <Mike_lifeguard> Greeves: zomg yes. /not just WP/ [2008-01-23 21:22:53] <kibble> but [2008-01-23 21:22:58] <BDerksen> In theory I can just go up to anyone I want to right now and say "Hi, I'm from Wikipedia, have you heard the Good News?" But if I can't say that I'm a member of such-and-such an organization with such-and-such a title I'll just be dismissed as a loon. [2008-01-23 21:23:00] <HOTR> I agree, evangelism/education is something that is key. [2008-01-23 21:23:01] <kibble> are we getting into the stuff that should be disxussed next week? [2008-01-23 21:23:37] <BDerksen> The "Complete and Perfect Tutnum" title doesn't help those situations. :( [2008-01-23 21:23:39] <kibble> right now we should probably think about what we should talk about the 30th, we're doing that pretty well :-) [2008-01-23 21:23:44] <HOTR> Well, I think "grand vision" is something we should deal with upfront [2008-01-23 21:24:00] <Mike_lifeguard> Actually, once we make this thing official, you'll be a card-carrying loon. Literally :P [2008-01-23 21:24:06] <HOTR> but what we can do, or will end up doing, will have to wait to see what happens on the ground [2008-01-23 21:24:13] <OhanaUnited> i think a lot of people know wikipedia, just dont edit it [2008-01-23 21:24:18] <Shannie> Yep. [2008-01-23 21:24:20] <OhanaUnited> we need to encourage people doing so [2008-01-23 21:24:23] <kibble> OhanaUnited: some dont' even know it *can* be edited [2008-01-23 21:24:29] <kibble> (by anyone) [2008-01-23 21:24:32] <OhanaUnited> *faints* [2008-01-23 21:24:37] <Greeves> kibble: words out of my mouth! [2008-01-23 21:24:38] <kibble> :-) [2008-01-23 21:24:44] <kibble> you should hear the e-mails we get [2008-01-23 21:24:44] * BDerksen nods. A lot of people have wrong ideas about it. Even people I've known for years still email me asking me to make changes on articles for them when they spot an error. [2008-01-23 21:24:45] <OhanaUnited> well, we call those people "CD-ROM" [2008-01-23 21:24:45] * HOTR would prefer to be a card-carrying Canada Goose [2008-01-23 21:24:50] <OhanaUnited> they only read, but don't write [2008-01-23 21:24:52] <kibble> "your site' been hacked!" "wow, I can really edit?" [2008-01-23 21:25:12] <HOTR> I think almost everyone has at least heard of Wikipedia. [2008-01-23 21:25:22] <OhanaUnited> even profs know about it [2008-01-23 21:25:25] <HOTR> There is a whole culture here [2008-01-23 21:25:32] <Mike_lifeguard> can we please remember that this is /not/ the Wikipedia Foundation [2008-01-23 21:25:36] <BDerksen> Yes, but they don't necessarily _understand_ it. [2008-01-23 21:25:47] <HOTR> Free information, Wikis, education ... that we can promote and help grow [2008-01-23 21:25:50] <OhanaUnited> one thing for sure is that this is one of WMC's goals [2008-01-23 21:26:03] <OhanaUnited> and i think the best place to start off is college and university [2008-01-23 21:26:07] <kibble> Mike_lifeguard: yes, but we're talking about what people know :-) [2008-01-23 21:26:13] <kibble> one of the things WMCA *can* do [2008-01-23 21:26:22] <kibble> is get the word out about lesser known projects [2008-01-23 21:26:24] <kibble> like Wikibooks [2008-01-23 21:26:26] <Shannie> High schools would be good too I think. [2008-01-23 21:26:32] <BDerksen> Unlike many other local chapters, we don't have a "language of our own" to claim - Canada does both French and English, and there are other chapters much larger than us that specialize in those. [2008-01-23 21:26:42] <Greeves> Yep [2008-01-23 21:27:00] <kibble> BDerksen: but chapters are geographical [2008-01-23 21:27:02] <Pathoschild> Shannie: Yep, Canadians are underrepresented amongst vandals. ;) [2008-01-23 21:27:10] * HOTR nods to Mike_lifeguard ... it's Wikimedia ... but WP is what made Wikis and free culture famous. We should take advantage of it being a celebrity, but not forget the evolving projects. [2008-01-23 21:27:12] <Shannie> Ass. [2008-01-23 21:27:18] <Pathoschild> :D [2008-01-23 21:27:25] <BDerksen> Yeah, but geography and language are often tied together. Especially with the smaller languages. [2008-01-23 21:27:32] <kibble> I think I see what you mean [2008-01-23 21:28:09] <HOTR> BDerksen: There are lots of things we can "specialize" in. If we need to -- which I'm not sure we do. [2008-01-23 21:28:25] <kibble> okay, have we beat the death to the fact that we need to discuss the "why?" at the meeting? [2008-01-23 21:28:32] <BDerksen> We'll be specializing in Canadianess, if nothing else. [2008-01-23 21:28:33] <kibble> and the what :-) [2008-01-23 21:28:39] <kibble> heh [2008-01-23 21:28:50] <Mike_lifeguard> kibble: this needs to be dealt with up-front. [2008-01-23 21:28:56] <HOTR> kibble: I think we have to have some clear strategy to address it. [2008-01-23 21:28:58] * OhanaUnited agrees [2008-01-23 21:29:03] <kibble> Mike_lifeguard, HOTR : but the problem is [2008-01-23 21:29:08] <Mike_lifeguard> I don't know that I necessarily need to be involved in this until I know what it is I'd be getting involved in [2008-01-23 21:29:16] <BDerksen> In the immortal words of Yogi Berra, if we don't know where we're going we might not get there. [2008-01-23 21:29:18] <HOTR> It's been asked dozens of times in the talk pages, so we should have a good plan for it. [2008-01-23 21:29:20] <kibble> that will turn this into /the meeting/ which wasn't announced as as important [2008-01-23 21:29:34] <kibble> but we can discuss it now if you want [2008-01-23 21:29:38] * Mike_lifeguard wants [2008-01-23 21:29:41] <kibble> :-) [2008-01-23 21:29:46] * BDerksen nods. Doesn't mean we can't brainstorm up some ideas to raise in detail later. [2008-01-23 21:29:55] <kibble> so, where do we want to continue: "why? [2008-01-23 21:29:57] <kibble> " [2008-01-23 21:30:07] * kibble makes Shannie dominate this convo too >:| [2008-01-23 21:30:08] * OhanaUnited echos BDerksen [2008-01-23 21:30:17] <Mike_lifeguard> Do re really need a WMC to do evangelism for WMF? [2008-01-23 21:30:18] <Shannie> Nuh uh. :O [2008-01-23 21:30:31] <OhanaUnited> that's ONE of our objective [2008-01-23 21:30:31] <kibble> Mike_lifeguard: I'd say yes [2008-01-23 21:30:31] <BDerksen> Not for WMF, just for W. [2008-01-23 21:30:36] <Shannie> Yep. [2008-01-23 21:30:39] <OhanaUnited> we also have other goals [2008-01-23 21:31:00] <Mike_lifeguard> OhanaUnited: expound, please [2008-01-23 21:31:00] <HOTR> I'm stressing "strategy" and not tactics -- we have to have some GOOD answers to the question, not ALL the answers. Brainstorming and coming up with a few good ones is great. [2008-01-23 21:31:01] * BDerksen is unconcerned with WMF, so long as they keep paying the bills on those servers. [2008-01-23 21:31:07] <OhanaUnited> for example, encourage free licence media [2008-01-23 21:31:15] <kibble> BDerksen: :-) [2008-01-23 21:31:20] <kibble> OhanaUnited: :-) good [2008-01-23 21:31:39] <kibble> so we want to promote free-thingies and wikis in general? [2008-01-23 21:31:48] <OhanaUnited> that's is, and always will, be the goal of WM and WMC [2008-01-23 21:31:54] <kibble> yup [2008-01-23 21:32:01] <Greeves> And we need to set up the tax-rebate thing. [2008-01-23 21:32:04] * Mike_lifeguard still doesn't see why this necessitates a Wikimedia *Canada* ?? (please note I'm not trying to be difficult on purpose) [2008-01-23 21:32:06] <HOTR> Mike_lifeguard: Yes ... we need to spread free culture ideas. Otherwise, "Encarta" or some other commercial product could become Canada's official "reference" for the next generation [2008-01-23 21:32:08] <Greeves> Once we are a charity. [2008-01-23 21:32:09] <kibble> Greeves: that's secondary [2008-01-23 21:32:21] <Greeves> Yep, but still a benefit. [2008-01-23 21:32:23] <kibble> Mike_lifeguard: no problem, we need to discuss :-) [2008-01-23 21:32:23] <Shannie> And giving us free stuff. :DD [2008-01-23 21:32:36] <BDerksen> Yeah. Unlike the US, works of the Canadian government aren't automatically public domain, for example. I've never delved too deeply into things that would require it so I don't know the details but I'm sure there's government information that would be great to have licenced more openly. [2008-01-23 21:32:43] <kibble> Canada: chapters help to basically deal with "local" concerns and outreach [2008-01-23 21:32:47] <HOTR> And I think we should encourage "free speech" (rather then just free beer) [2008-01-23 21:32:53] <Mike_lifeguard> Shannie: for real real? [2008-01-23 21:33:12] <Shannie> Free stuff is always good. :O [2008-01-23 21:33:24] <Mike_lifeguard> sry. that was for BDerksen [2008-01-23 21:33:29] <kibble> BDerksen: I'm not sure on the laws of nonprofits in Canada but in US, they can't really "lobby" [2008-01-23 21:33:32] <kibble> but chapters like Italy [2008-01-23 21:33:37] <HOTR> The charity status will be more important for getting bigger funding. If this is just a book club or some such thing, then we won't need much. [2008-01-23 21:33:43] <OhanaUnited> let's not lose our heads, first thing is establish a non-profit company [2008-01-23 21:33:44] * BDerksen hehs. I have a book written by a comedian who did nothing but write strange letters to various companies making bizzare complaints and compliments, and he always requested a T-shirt be sent to him. He got lots. [2008-01-23 21:33:47] <kibble> *have* lobbied their governments to get better free licenses, if I remember correctly [2008-01-23 21:33:47] <OhanaUnited> THEN charity [2008-01-23 21:34:12] <OhanaUnited> only USA and holland government release their media into public domain [2008-01-23 21:34:31] <BDerksen> I wasn't thinking of lobbying for changes in laws or anything, just requesting that stuff be released more freely. [2008-01-23 21:34:39] <Mike_lifeguard> do you know the status of Canadian legislation? [2008-01-23 21:34:46] <kibble> BDerksen: yup [2008-01-23 21:34:48] <Mike_lifeguard> or judgments? [2008-01-23 21:35:02] * Shannie guesses it's not favourable. [2008-01-23 21:35:09] <Pathoschild> Nope. [2008-01-23 21:35:20] <Shannie> Do tell, oh silent one. [2008-01-23 21:35:32] <OhanaUnited> anyone a lawyer here? [2008-01-23 21:35:35] <BDerksen> Perhaps some provincial museum's got a stockpile of old scanned documents that would be public domain anyway simply due to age, for example. We could go to them and see if we could get a copy of their files. [2008-01-23 21:35:57] <kibble> BDerksen: and it works better to say "We're from WMCA!" [2008-01-23 21:36:21] <Pathoschild> Shannie: Government works published within the last 50 years are copyrighted. Government works not published are copyrighted perpetually. :) [2008-01-23 21:36:28] <OhanaUnited> ok, we need to choose the abbrevation between WMCA and WMC [2008-01-23 21:36:35] <kibble> OhanaUnited: I think Ray knows quite a bit about law and nonprofits, so we can bring this up on the ml [2008-01-23 21:36:38] <kibble> or somehow drag him in here [2008-01-23 21:36:38] <Pathoschild> Which isn't so bad, but still not PD. [2008-01-23 21:36:43] <Mike_lifeguard> WMCA makes me see YMCA, so.... [2008-01-23 21:36:46] <OhanaUnited> personally, whenever i see CA, i always think of california -.- [2008-01-23 21:36:54] <kibble> Mike_lifeguard: :-) [2008-01-23 21:36:59] * BDerksen thinks we need badges. [2008-01-23 21:37:02] <Shannie> ;D [2008-01-23 21:37:04] * Mike_lifeguard used to work for them for many years :( [2008-01-23 21:37:05] <OhanaUnited> like... Wikimedia California (wtf?) [2008-01-23 21:37:07] * Greeves agrees [2008-01-23 21:37:08] <HOTR> OhanaUnited: yes, we have to lay out the steps. [2008-01-23 21:37:17] <kibble> hehe, well ca is the country code [2008-01-23 21:37:34] <kibble> so the domain would be wikimedia.ca or or ca.wikimedia.org, so you'll be confused a lot :-P [2008-01-23 21:37:35] <OhanaUnited> i know that, but CA also represents california [2008-01-23 21:37:39] <kibble> yep [2008-01-23 21:37:51] * OhanaUnited scratches head [2008-01-23 21:38:08] * Az1568 wonders if this would help http://nonprofitscan.imaginecanada.ca/en/tir_establish_charity [2008-01-23 21:38:11] * Az1568 is from California :P [2008-01-23 21:38:11] <HOTR> "lobby" <-- I'm not sure about legal grounds, but we can promote Free culture, and promote that to the electorate [2008-01-23 21:38:17] <kibble> :-D [2008-01-23 21:38:18] <Pathoschild> WCAN? :) [2008-01-23 21:38:20] <kibble> heh [2008-01-23 21:38:49] * BDerksen bahs. And California has a larger population than Canada too, so they may win the CA abbreviation if we have to fight over it. :) [2008-01-23 21:38:51] <OhanaUnited> WCAN, i would say... no [2008-01-23 21:38:59] <kibble> BDerksen: they won't [2008-01-23 21:39:03] <kibble> it would be WMUS-CA [2008-01-23 21:39:05] <OhanaUnited> lol, like the fight between the WWF website? [2008-01-23 21:39:08] <HOTR> Damn, am a little laggy [2008-01-23 21:39:17] <HOTR> I would vote for "WM Canada" [2008-01-23 21:39:21] <kibble> BDerksen: like Pennsylvania is http://pa.us.wikimedia.org [2008-01-23 21:39:21] <HOTR> or WM-C [2008-01-23 21:39:22] <OhanaUnited> between World Wildlife Fund and World Wide Fighting? [2008-01-23 21:39:28] <Greeves> WMC works too. Like WMF only replacing the foundation with Canada. [2008-01-23 21:39:32] * Mike_lifeguard likes [2008-01-23 21:39:48] * HOTR agrees with mike on the WMCA/YMCA thing [2008-01-23 21:39:49] <kibble> though that's not the form :-P [2008-01-23 21:39:58] <coldacid> why would california get first dibs on ca, even if they have higher population? [2008-01-23 21:40:09] * BDerksen wasn't serious, hence the smiley. [2008-01-23 21:40:11] <kibble> coldacid: they wouldn't, we were just throwing around ideas :-) [2008-01-23 21:40:12] <coldacid> doesn't it go by 2lcc? [2008-01-23 21:40:20] <kibble> coldacid: it goes to country code [2008-01-23 21:40:25] <coldacid> thought so [2008-01-23 21:40:26] <BDerksen> I do like WMCanada better anyway, though. [2008-01-23 21:40:55] <OhanaUnited> I would say...... WMC sounds the best [2008-01-23 21:41:06] <coldacid> yeah, wmc [2008-01-23 21:41:10] <Greeves> Agreed [2008-01-23 21:41:13] * BDerksen nods, if we must initialize that sounds good. [2008-01-23 21:41:17] <kibble> let's not focus on semantics, especially if ChapCom will just say "WMCA" is the format :-) [2008-01-23 21:41:19] <HOTR> Ok, I think we're ok with the abbreviation :) [2008-01-23 21:41:37] <HOTR> Does anyone still not know "why" we are doing this? [2008-01-23 21:41:47] * Mike_lifeguard doesn't yet [2008-01-23 21:42:04] <Mike_lifeguard> there are lots of good ideas of stuff to do, but none that really necessitates a chapter [2008-01-23 21:42:07] <Mike_lifeguard> just go do it [2008-01-23 21:42:17] <Greeves> Promoting free culture, Wikimedia, tax rebates, etc. [2008-01-23 21:42:31] <kibble> Greeves: Canadians already have tax rebates [2008-01-23 21:42:35] <BDerksen> The part I'm less clear on is the fundraising side of things. [2008-01-23 21:42:37] <Greeves> we do? [2008-01-23 21:42:46] <Mike_lifeguard> Yes. the tax thing is the only reason I can currently come up with [2008-01-23 21:42:59] <kibble> Greeves: http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Deductibility_of_donations#Canada [2008-01-23 21:43:27] * Greeves sands corrected [2008-01-23 21:43:29] <Greeves> *stands [2008-01-23 21:43:32] <OhanaUnited> lol [2008-01-23 21:43:39] <kibble> but a chapter would allow a group of people to get donations to do their own outreach-related actions [2008-01-23 21:43:47] <Shannie> Mike_lifeguard: I suppose doing stuff in the name of an organization gives your more oomph? [2008-01-23 21:43:53] <Greeves> Yea [2008-01-23 21:43:58] <kibble> Shannie: yep :-) [2008-01-23 21:44:00] <kibble> "oomph" [2008-01-23 21:44:07] <kibble> that sums it up, Shannie :-D [2008-01-23 21:44:10] <Mike_lifeguard> Frankly, that's not a great reason to go through setting it up and keeping it going [2008-01-23 21:44:14] <Shannie> ;D [2008-01-23 21:44:32] <Mike_lifeguard> I don't know how much work it is, but we're only 10 [2008-01-23 21:44:38] * BDerksen nods. The large majority of the modern business world still isn't used to the idea of a decentralized grassroots volunteer movement doing something like Wikipedia. Being able to give the receptionist a high-falutin' title will help get appointments with the bosses. :) [2008-01-23 21:44:45] <kibble> Mike_lifeguard: this is the "informal" meeting [2008-01-23 21:45:01] * kibble nods at BDerksen [2008-01-23 21:45:03] <Mike_lifeguard> ok, well then look at the RSVP page for the other one [2008-01-23 21:45:08] * HOTR agrees with kibble [2008-01-23 21:45:25] <Mike_lifeguard> my point is that this whole business isn't suffering from an overabundance of people [2008-01-23 21:45:28] <Greeves> http://tinyurl.com/2cbm22 is RSVP page [2008-01-23 21:45:58] <kibble> 13 people signed up as interested [2008-01-23 21:46:02] <kibble> not including some here [2008-01-23 21:46:04] <HOTR> There are lots of funds that can't be tapped into without a Canadian based charity doing the applying. There is money there for all kinds of wonderful stuff, but we can't get at it. :( [2008-01-23 21:46:12] <kibble> and take a look at this: http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Deductibility_of_donations#Canada [2008-01-23 21:46:17] <kibble> wrong link :-) [2008-01-23 21:46:19] <Mike_lifeguard> are we talking about applying for grants? [2008-01-23 21:46:23] <kibble> http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Canada/Participant_list [2008-01-23 21:46:27] <OhanaUnited> not grants [2008-01-23 21:46:27] <Mike_lifeguard> /That/ would be a very nice idea [2008-01-23 21:46:39] <OhanaUnited> but the status of charity organization [2008-01-23 21:46:40] <BDerksen> I wouldn't know where to start on something like that. [2008-01-23 21:46:40] <Greeves> http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Canada/Participant_list is very old [2008-01-23 21:46:57] <kibble> Greeves: yes, but it has over 100 people who signed up as at least interested [2008-01-23 21:47:05] <Greeves> Yep [2008-01-23 21:47:11] <kibble> OhanaUnited: we *could* apply for grants if need be [2008-01-23 21:47:19] <HOTR> BDerksen: It's not just bosses ... see my last post :) [2008-01-23 21:47:23] <Mike_lifeguard> "if need be" ?? [2008-01-23 21:47:28] <Greeves> BDersen: Where to start? http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Step-by-step_chapter_creation_guide [2008-01-23 21:47:35] <Mike_lifeguard> That would be a majorly hugely great thing [2008-01-23 21:47:38] <Pathoschild> Grants should be one of WMC's priorities. [2008-01-23 21:47:49] <OhanaUnited> should we "kill" the old participant list and make a new one [2008-01-23 21:47:49] <OhanaUnited> ? [2008-01-23 21:47:54] <kibble> nope [2008-01-23 21:48:02] <Mike_lifeguard> Absolutely. I don't know who among us (or other) would do it, but that should be on the list, right at the top [2008-01-23 21:48:04] <BDerksen> Greeves> I meant about getting grants. [2008-01-23 21:48:11] <kibble> OhanaUnited: we should keep that somehow [2008-01-23 21:48:14] <kibble> but we could make a more updated list [2008-01-23 21:48:21] <HOTR> As far as numbers of people... there are hundreds who would get involved, or have indicated they'd like to get involved, by signing on the WM canada founding pages [2008-01-23 21:48:24] <Greeves> BDerksen: oh [2008-01-23 21:49:01] <HOTR> The list IS old, I admit [2008-01-23 21:49:01] <BDerksen> I don't imagine we could go to the Canadian government and say "could you please give us some money so that we may funnel it directly into an American charity?". We'd need to have something to do with it ourselves, I expect. :) [2008-01-23 21:49:19] <HOTR> But the issue is that this has been simmering for 2+ YEARS now. [2008-01-23 21:49:24] <Mike_lifeguard> well, first of all, it may be american, but does serve the whole world [2008-01-23 21:49:36] <OhanaUnited> oh right, i almost forget a point [2008-01-23 21:49:40] <kibble> HOTR: so obviously some people want it [2008-01-23 21:49:46] <kibble> and there are some who don't want to get around and make it [2008-01-23 21:49:50] <Mike_lifeguard> but yes, there's plenty we could do with it; there's no reason it would have to go to the Foundation (I think) [2008-01-23 21:49:52] <kibble> but *are* interested in helping out later [2008-01-23 21:49:56] <OhanaUnited> on meta, we shouldn't post the direct IRC log [2008-01-23 21:50:03] <OhanaUnited> we have to summeraize it [2008-01-23 21:50:09] <kibble> OhanaUnited: I was thinking both [2008-01-23 21:50:12] * Mike_lifeguard will do both [2008-01-23 21:50:17] <kibble> Mike_lifeguard: :-D [2008-01-23 21:50:25] * BDerksen awws, all his clever witticisms will get cut out that way [2008-01-23 21:50:35] <kibble> :-) [2008-01-23 21:50:43] <kibble> BDerksen: don't worry, we'll keep the log just for that :-) [2008-01-23 21:50:44] * Mike_lifeguard will perhaps make a section for the jokes worth noting :DD [2008-01-23 21:50:49] <kibble> haha [2008-01-23 21:50:51] <BDerksen> Guess I'll have to say something substantive now... [2008-01-23 21:50:57] <HOTR> kibble: The "getting started" is the biggest hurdle. [2008-01-23 21:50:57] * BDerksen hehs [2008-01-23 21:51:00] <OhanaUnited> some people have trouble understanding IRC messages, so summeraize should be 1st priority [2008-01-23 21:51:01] <kibble> HOTR: yup [2008-01-23 21:51:15] <Greeves> We could post log too. [2008-01-23 21:51:20] <OhanaUnited> kibble, HOTR: yes, we're "trying" to overcome this obstacle [2008-01-23 21:51:24] <kibble> Greeves: we're doing both :-), well mike is [2008-01-23 21:51:31] <Greeves> k [2008-01-23 21:51:33] |<-- Greeves has left irc.freenode.net ("ChatZilla 0.9.80 [Firefox 2.0.0.11/2007112718]") [2008-01-23 21:51:36] <kibble> OhanaUnited: yeah, but we're talking about the number of interested perticipants [2008-01-23 21:51:37] <Mike_lifeguard> o.O [2008-01-23 21:51:45] <kibble> Mike_lifeguard: connections problems maybe? [2008-01-23 21:51:51] <Mike_lifeguard> meh. [2008-01-23 21:51:57] -->| Greeves (n=Greeves@wikimedia/Greeves) has joined #wikimedia-ca [2008-01-23 21:52:00] <kibble> OhanaUnited: i.e. once we get over this obstacle, more people might be interested [2008-01-23 21:52:03] <HOTR> Greeves: w/b [2008-01-23 21:52:11] * HOTR nods at kibble [2008-01-23 21:52:25] <Mike_lifeguard> OK, so we have grants as a high-ish priority, and the possibility of using donations and/or grant $ ourselves on certain projects [2008-01-23 21:52:35] <BDerksen> Getting WMC started sounds like hard work. Joining up with an already-running WMC sounds like fun. :) [2008-01-23 21:52:39] <Mike_lifeguard> what sort of projects do we want to do? [2008-01-23 21:52:48] <HOTR> Greeves has formulated a list of bylaws, and so has EC ... I haven't had a chance to go over them in detail [2008-01-23 21:52:51] <Mike_lifeguard> BDerksen: no such luck [2008-01-23 21:52:54] <OhanaUnited> i really hope that our work wont go to waste after we established the organization [2008-01-23 21:52:57] <HOTR> BDerksen: lol ... yes, I think that is true. [2008-01-23 21:53:01] -->| Arria (n=Arria@Wikimedia/Arria-Belli) has joined #wikimedia-ca [2008-01-23 21:53:08] <HOTR> It will be some hard work that will pay off in the end. [2008-01-23 21:53:09] <Shannie> Hey Arria :D [2008-01-23 21:53:10] <Mike_lifeguard> Arria: hello; welcome [2008-01-23 21:53:11] <OhanaUnited> cause a few chapters kicked off the ground, but never officially recognized [2008-01-23 21:53:12] <Greeves> oops [2008-01-23 21:53:16] <Arria> Can I...? [2008-01-23 21:53:24] <Mike_lifeguard> join? absolutely! [2008-01-23 21:53:29] <Arria> Oh, I'm already being welcomed, so I guess it's OK to crash here. [2008-01-23 21:53:33] <Arria> \o/ [2008-01-23 21:53:34] <kibble> :-D [2008-01-23 21:53:39] <Shannie> :d [2008-01-23 21:53:41] * kibble huggles Arria [2008-01-23 21:53:41] <Shannie> :D [2008-01-23 21:53:43] <Arria> Thanks to kibble for the reminder. [2008-01-23 21:53:44] <OhanaUnited> going back to what I said... [2008-01-23 21:53:46] <Greeves> I accidently disconnected. [2008-01-23 21:53:48] <Mike_lifeguard> we're just talking about what WMC might do with grant money and donations (maybe?) [2008-01-23 21:53:50] <kibble> Arria: sorry I was late at telling you :-) [2008-01-23 21:53:51] <BDerksen> Just drop your admission fee in the box by the door. :) [2008-01-23 21:53:54] <kibble> heh [2008-01-23 21:53:58] <kibble> OhanaUnited: listening [2008-01-23 21:53:58] <OhanaUnited> i saw WMHK and i would say their situation is a little bit grim [2008-01-23 21:54:09] <kibble> yes, I'm confused at that [2008-01-23 21:54:29] <OhanaUnited> they formed in september 2007, and they still "waiting" for approval [2008-01-23 21:54:36] * Arria sits quietly and listens [2008-01-23 21:54:43] <BDerksen> I've generally tried to stay out of the "political" side of things until now, what's going on? [2008-01-23 21:54:58] <OhanaUnited> a few local chapters are formed AFTER september 2007, yet they are recognized immediately [2008-01-23 21:55:11] <OhanaUnited> leaving WMHK founders on sour notes [2008-01-23 21:55:12] <kibble> OhanaUnited: that is the Board [2008-01-23 21:55:22] <kibble> they seem to be approved by ChapCom [2008-01-23 21:55:26] <OhanaUnited> if the board doesn't recognize us, we cant do anything [2008-01-23 21:55:30] <kibble> I don't think the same thing will happen with WMCA [2008-01-23 21:55:33] <OhanaUnited> none of our plans will work [2008-01-23 21:55:39] <OhanaUnited> without their approval [2008-01-23 21:55:47] <OhanaUnited> well, god knows.... [2008-01-23 21:55:48] <Greeves> My bylaws are basically WMF. [2008-01-23 21:55:49] <Greeves> Hi Arria! [2008-01-23 21:55:52] <Greeves> Arria: Out of curiosity, are you a Canadian? [2008-01-23 21:55:52] <kibble> as long as you keep ChapCom involved and follow proper procedure, there shouldn't be those problems [2008-01-23 21:55:57] * Arria waves at Greeves [2008-01-23 21:55:59] <HOTR> WM Canada won't have an issue getting recognized, as long as we're legal. I don't know the situation for WM HK [2008-01-23 21:56:01] <Greeves> Hi [2008-01-23 21:56:08] * Greeves waves back [2008-01-23 21:56:10] <Mike_lifeguard> kibble: absolutely right. If we do it right, there should be no problems [2008-01-23 21:56:18] <Arria> No, I'm not. I wasn't even born in an anglo or franco country. [2008-01-23 21:56:32] <HOTR> kibble: We've done so, no issue there. [2008-01-23 21:56:41] <OhanaUnited> kibble: they did! on the establishment ceremony, even one of board member attended [2008-01-23 21:56:43] <kibble> HOTR: I mean future, but yes [2008-01-23 21:56:45] * BDerksen hehs. An outside perspective, in that case. :) [2008-01-23 21:56:49] <kibble> OhanaUnited: interesting [2008-01-23 21:56:50] <Arria> Does it count if I spent winter vacations in Montréal as a child? :-p [2008-01-23 21:56:53] <kibble> it may be board politics [2008-01-23 21:56:57] <OhanaUnited> that's why it's so puzzling [2008-01-23 21:57:00] <kibble> but like WMUK completely created itself [2008-01-23 21:57:00] <Shannie> Arria: Yep. :D [2008-01-23 21:57:05] <kibble> *U* K [2008-01-23 21:57:09] <Greeves> Arria: Not quite. [2008-01-23 21:57:11] <Greeves> ;) [2008-01-23 21:57:13] <kibble> and it took a while to get approved, I think [2008-01-23 21:57:14] <Arria> Heh. [2008-01-23 21:57:18] <HOTR> Greeves: One thing that chapcom mentioned was that our bylaws had to be ok for Canada ... if you did a cut and paste of WMF, those are Florida (I think) laws [2008-01-23 21:57:20] <kibble> because WM was not really inovolved [2008-01-23 21:57:26] <Arria> WMUK took a while to get off the ground, right? [2008-01-23 21:57:29] <kibble> HOTR: I agree [2008-01-23 21:57:45] <Greeves> HOTR: I was just collecting my thoughts with that. [2008-01-23 21:57:49] <Greeves> Nothing legal. [2008-01-23 21:57:51] <kibble> Arria: yep, and it's still not really going anywhere I don't think [2008-01-23 21:57:52] <kibble> HOTR: I think Ec's better represent Canada [2008-01-23 21:58:04] <Arria> The WMCanada bylaws were on a Canadian site somewhere. [2008-01-23 21:58:04] <Mike_lifeguard> HOTR: ok, so has someone who knows things looked at the bylaws? [2008-01-23 21:58:13] <Greeves> Kibble: Probably so. [2008-01-23 21:58:18] <kibble> Greeves: no offense :-/ [2008-01-23 21:58:21] <Mike_lifeguard> (both versions?) [2008-01-23 21:58:23] <Greeves> None taken. [2008-01-23 21:58:30] <kibble> Mike_lifeguard: I've read both [2008-01-23 21:58:38] <Mike_lifeguard> yeah, but do you know stuff? :P [2008-01-23 21:58:42] <HOTR> I proposed to take them to a lawyer, but Ec was very opposed to that. [2008-01-23 21:58:51] <kibble> Mike_lifeguard: some :-) [2008-01-23 21:58:52] <OhanaUnited> we should find a lawyer [2008-01-23 21:58:53] <kibble> HOTR: I thought you should [2008-01-23 21:58:55] <kibble> but then again [2008-01-23 21:58:59] <OhanaUnited> provides better advice [2008-01-23 21:59:04] <HOTR> I'm not a lawyer, and I don't want to play one in WM Canada :P [2008-01-23 21:59:05] <kibble> Ec says he's set up non-profit, I think [2008-01-23 21:59:06] <Mike_lifeguard> can we just borrow Mike Godwin? [2008-01-23 21:59:08] <Greeves> kibble:I just wrote my thoughts (that we should operate similarly to WMF) down to try to get the project back up. [2008-01-23 21:59:09] <OhanaUnited> BUT, we need some lawyer to do it volunterarily [2008-01-23 21:59:13] <kibble> Mike_lifeguard: he's not Canadian [2008-01-23 21:59:20] <coldacid> i would like to state on the issue of legal things that we would be best not to incorporate in ontario if there will ever be a need to hire high level staff like an exec director [2008-01-23 21:59:21] <kibble> Greeves: yep [2008-01-23 21:59:35] <OhanaUnited> coldacid: why? [2008-01-23 21:59:37] <HOTR> OhanaUnited: I disagree [2008-01-23 21:59:37] <Arria> Why not? [2008-01-23 21:59:41] <coldacid> ontario's Corporations Act is pretty anal about hiring decision makers [2008-01-23 21:59:49] <OhanaUnited> how so? [2008-01-23 21:59:53] <coldacid> as someone who's had to deal with that... [2008-01-23 22:00:11] <HOTR> We'd incorporate Federally anyways. [2008-01-23 22:00:23] <OhanaUnited> btw, i feel disappointed [2008-01-23 22:00:26] <coldacid> its an offense to pay directors of any sort in a non-profit incorporated in ontario [2008-01-23 22:00:35] <OhanaUnited> on http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_chapters#Planned_chapters, it listed that Nick or Ray should be contact person [2008-01-23 22:00:44] <HOTR> OhanaUnited: I think it's only fair to pay for a service we get. And if we pay and the lawyer makes a mistake, we have recourse. [2008-01-23 22:00:45] <kibble> that's old [2008-01-23 22:00:48] <OhanaUnited> but they dont express interest in attending meetings [2008-01-23 22:00:50] <coldacid> i am not aware of federal requirements tho [2008-01-23 22:00:54] <HOTR> Who is logging? [2008-01-23 22:01:01] <Greeves> I am [2008-01-23 22:01:08] <kibble> OhanaUnited: I'll just change it to this channel or the ml [2008-01-23 22:01:09] <Greeves> And Mike may be too. [2008-01-23 22:01:11] <kibble> HOTR: or Mike_lifeguard [2008-01-23 22:01:17] <kibble> because Greeves disconnected in the middle :-) [2008-01-23 22:01:23] <Mike_lifeguard> I'm logging [2008-01-23 22:01:26] <OhanaUnited> yah [2008-01-23 22:01:31] <Greeves> kibble: good point [2008-01-23 22:01:32] <Mike_lifeguard> and summarizing the log later [2008-01-23 22:01:48] <OhanaUnited> Mike will do until secretary is appointed [2008-01-23 22:01:52] <HOTR> OhanaUnited: Nick can't come in the eves ... not after 5:00pm, but will read the logs. Ec has indicated he doesn't participate in IRC chats. [2008-01-23 22:02:24] <Greeves> Are we going to have a steering committee in the end? [2008-01-23 22:02:38] <Mike_lifeguard> Greeves: Yes, we'll need one. [2008-01-23 22:02:42] <HOTR> Greeves: I have a point I'd like to make off the record ... is that ok? [2008-01-23 22:02:46] <OhanaUnited> not in the end, but almost immediately [2008-01-23 22:02:57] <BDerksen> It's hard to find a communication method that _everyone_ would use. I'm just lucky IRC's my multi-person chat medium of choice to begin with. [2008-01-23 22:02:58] <Greeves> Thats what i meant [2008-01-23 22:03:12] <Mike_lifeguard> For those who don't know, the steering committee is an ad-hoc thing that gets replaced by an elected body once WMC is set up [2008-01-23 22:03:18] <Greeves> HOTR: sure [2008-01-23 22:03:26] <Greeves> Mike: yea [2008-01-23 22:03:46] <Greeves> Anyone interested in going on committee? [2008-01-23 22:03:50] <OhanaUnited> exactly, so steering committee should be formed as of coming meeting [2008-01-23 22:04:15] <OhanaUnited> i'm interested :''redacted'' [2008-01-23 22:04:18] <Shannie> What would the committee do? [2008-01-23 22:04:31] <Greeves> I'm interested. [2008-01-23 22:04:32] <kibble> Greeves: that's definitely for next week [2008-01-23 22:04:32] <Mike_lifeguard> HOTR: I will redact it [2008-01-23 22:04:56] <kibble> okay, I need to go [2008-01-23 22:05:02] * Mike_lifeguard waves 'ye [2008-01-23 22:05:05] <Greeves> kibble: just seeing if anyone is interested or if people will need to be badgered to join it. [2008-01-23 22:05:06] <kibble> Mike_lifeguard: please link me to log by e-mail when you post :-) [2008-01-23 22:05:07] * OhanaUnited waves at kibble [2008-01-23 22:05:09] <Greeves> bye kibble [2008-01-23 22:05:11] <kibble> Greeves: :-) [2008-01-23 22:05:13] <kibble> later all, night :''redacted'' [2008-01-23 22:05:16] <kibble> nice productive meeting! [2008-01-23 22:05:22] <OhanaUnited> ty ty [2008-01-23 22:05:24] |<-- kibble has left irc.freenode.net ("sleep") [2008-01-23 22:05:25] <Greeves> yep [2008-01-23 22:05:36] <Mike_lifeguard> HOTR: is that all the deets? c'mon!! [2008-01-23 22:05:41] <OhanaUnited> everyone will have to pitch in some $ into the fund in the beginning [2008-01-23 22:05:47] <HOTR> Mike_lifeguard, Greeves <recording on> :) [2008-01-23 22:05:50] <OhanaUnited> then after it's well-established, we can get our $ back [2008-01-23 22:06:07] <Mike_lifeguard> that's it? no juicy details? [2008-01-23 22:06:42] <Shannie> Fiine. [2008-01-23 22:06:43] <OhanaUnited> save it for official meeting [2008-01-23 22:07:19] <Mike_lifeguard> ok, so where are we? [2008-01-23 22:07:26] <Shannie> Pathoschild sleeps with a teddy bear. [2008-01-23 22:07:26] <Shannie> How's that? [2008-01-23 22:07:27] <Arria> Is there no francophone person interested? [2008-01-23 22:07:29] <HOTR> Mike_lifeguard: lol ... no [2008-01-23 22:07:45] <Shannie> Arria: pathie [2008-01-23 22:07:50] <HOTR> I'm not sure if we've covered the "why" yet. [2008-01-23 22:07:56] * Arria restrains self from saying something really naughty [2008-01-23 22:08:03] <Arria> Dammit Shannie. :-p [2008-01-23 22:08:08] <Shannie> :D [2008-01-23 22:08:18] <HOTR> We have to draft a timeline if we are going to make it happen [2008-01-23 22:08:20] <Arria> Pathoschild is bilingual, nu? [2008-01-23 22:08:21] <Pathoschild> Lies. [2008-01-23 22:08:28] * HOTR is interested in being on the committee too [2008-01-23 22:08:30] <Shannie> He is. [2008-01-23 22:08:48] <Pathoschild> My teddy bear threw me out of a car in a dream once, so he sleeps in his own bed. [2008-01-23 22:08:55] <Arria> I meant someone monolingual in fr:, so translations would be needed instead of being mildly superfluos. [2008-01-23 22:08:57] <Shannie> :D [2008-01-23 22:08:58] <Greeves> User:Pathoschild: "I write fluently in English and French, so feel free to address me in either language." [2008-01-23 22:09:30] <BDerksen> Some day when these logs show up on Wikinfo there will be a scandal about that teddy bear. :) [2008-01-23 22:09:41] <Shannie> :DD [2008-01-23 22:09:50] * OhanaUnited growls at internet drama [2008-01-23 22:09:56] <Pathoschild> Good, I won't correct Shannie's rumours then. ;) [2008-01-23 22:10:08] <HOTR> Arria: There are some people on the Talk page that have only written in French -- and we should announce the steering committee so everyone can participate [2008-01-23 22:10:15] <Arria> Sometimes you two are too cute. :-p [2008-01-23 22:10:26] <Arria> No problem, HOTR. [2008-01-23 22:10:33] <Mike_lifeguard> has someone notified everyone who's expressed interest on their talk page? [2008-01-23 22:10:40] <Pathoschild> :D [2008-01-23 22:10:44] <Arria> Just ping me whenever a translation is needed, if Pathoschild isn't around. [2008-01-23 22:10:45] <Shannie> :D [2008-01-23 22:10:58] <Arria> Ping! Translation. Like that. [2008-01-23 22:11:06] <Shannie> Pathoschild is always around, and when he isn't Arria is. :P [2008-01-23 22:11:13] <OhanaUnited> just make sure that when some discussion was made in french, someone needs to translate it back to english [2008-01-23 22:11:21] <HOTR> Mike_lifeguard: Last year I wrote to almost everyone on the interest list [2008-01-23 22:11:23] <Arria> Of course. [2008-01-23 22:11:25] <OhanaUnited> cause i suck at french other than saying "je ne comprend par francais" [2008-01-23 22:11:36] <Mike_lifeguard> HOTR: I meant recently. like in the past week [2008-01-23 22:11:47] <Mike_lifeguard> To let them know things are happening(!) [2008-01-23 22:12:11] <Greeves> I understand French rather well. [2008-01-23 22:12:19] <Greeves> I hate writing in it though. [2008-01-23 22:12:25] <HOTR> No ... while I got warm replies, the "hard" work of drafting the bylaws was left to the very few. [2008-01-23 22:12:56] * Shannie knows nothing about bylaws, so couldn't be of help there. [2008-01-23 22:12:57] <HOTR> Lots are willing to help, but dry legal wording doesn't allow many to jump in. [2008-01-23 22:13:09] <Mike_lifeguard> Well, even if people aren't going to be doing hardcore legal writing and whatnot, we can still let them know that this is no longer stagnant [2008-01-23 22:13:28] <Mike_lifeguard> How many were there? [2008-01-23 22:14:23] <HOTR> I wrote to over a hundred, and got probably 20 to 30 e-mails/talk page responses ... only one or two "take me off the list" ones. [2008-01-23 22:14:43] <Mike_lifeguard> does someone want to do that by hand again? [2008-01-23 22:14:52] <Mike_lifeguard> or /me could use AWB [2008-01-23 22:15:03] <HOTR> I'm happy to write people again, but it might be worthwhile to have a plan of action (even if it's a tentative one) [2008-01-23 22:15:36] <Mike_lifeguard> so do we want to put together something now, or wait till next week? [2008-01-23 22:15:43] <HOTR> Greeves: yes [2008-01-23 22:16:31] <HOTR> Well, if we have some solid answers to "why" ... I think we can spend most of next week with the timeline [2008-01-23 22:17:22] <Mike_lifeguard> OK, well I think trying to get some grants and donations is the way to go, but the question that was never answered was "What do we do with the money?" [2008-01-23 22:17:41] <Mike_lifeguard> It's all fine and dandy to collect it, but it's not useful until you spend it on something [2008-01-23 22:18:11] <Mike_lifeguard> OhanaUnited and I were kicking around the idea of putting some funding into some technologies for the non-Wikipedia projects [2008-01-23 22:18:31] * BDerksen nods. Personally, I've still been mainly thinking of the WMC as a way to get through doors to get donations of information or services rather than money. [2008-01-23 22:18:51] <Mike_lifeguard> those are fine too. [2008-01-23 22:19:10] <Mike_lifeguard> I was thinking about the German chapter, which operates the toolserver - something highly important to us [2008-01-23 22:19:24] <OhanaUnited> yah [2008-01-23 22:19:32] <Mike_lifeguard> Although as a startup we won't be doing something that massive, we can aim for other niches that need to be filled in the tech realm [2008-01-23 22:19:40] <OhanaUnited> well, is this the end of the meeting? or still continuing? [2008-01-23 22:20:01] <HOTR> Mike_lifeguard: There are lots of things we could use it for. [2008-01-23 22:20:13] <Mike_lifeguard> Just today on Foundation-l there was a comment about Commons needing some changes to the MW software, since it was never intended to be used for that [2008-01-23 22:20:23] <Mike_lifeguard> Same for Wikibooks, and other projects, I imagine [2008-01-23 22:20:46] <HOTR> Outreach. Getting Wikis into the class and classroom. Promoting the idea of free culture ... sponsoring events [2008-01-23 22:20:54] <Mike_lifeguard> OhanaUnited: I'd say folks are welcome to leave whenever they want. We still have next week, if people want this to be it [2008-01-23 22:21:01] <BDerksen> It would be nice if we could store a copy of the various databases as a sort of "offsite backup". I don't have the storage resources of my own to download a copy. [2008-01-23 22:21:21] <BDerksen> But I'm sure there are many of those scattered around out there already. [2008-01-23 22:21:22] <Mike_lifeguard> BDerksen: What do you mean? We already have database dumps [2008-01-23 22:21:45] <BDerksen> Yes, but they're not on WMC servers. [2008-01-23 22:21:49] <HOTR> Well, publishing a CD version of WP might be a good thing. Maybe. [2008-01-23 22:21:59] <Mike_lifeguard> They're not? [2008-01-23 22:22:09] <BDerksen> WMC doesn't have any servers. It doesn't exist yet. :) [2008-01-23 22:22:19] <Mike_lifeguard> http://download.wikimedia.org/ looks like WMF servers to me [2008-01-23 22:22:31] <Mike_lifeguard> well why do we need our own copy? [2008-01-23 22:23:02] * BDerksen likes backups. They've saved his bacon on occasion. [2008-01-23 22:23:44] <HOTR> Another thing is research. There are many facets to research, and we can make the money go a long way. [2008-01-23 22:24:07] <Mike_lifeguard> What sort of research do you mean? [2008-01-23 22:25:03] <HOTR> Well, there can be lots of different kinds.. research into Wikis, research using Wikis, research that publishes it's results for "free"... I'm just brainstorming [2008-01-23 22:25:21] <HOTR> But I'd like to see some funds go to outreach projects, definately. [2008-01-23 22:25:51] <Mike_lifeguard> ok sure [2008-01-23 22:26:03] <HOTR> OLPC is a great project -- why isn't there anything like that for kids _in_ Canada? (and that's just for starters) [2008-01-23 22:26:11] <Mike_lifeguard> I only ask because I don't want us to have plans that aren't concrete enough to get a start on [2008-01-23 22:26:26] <HOTR> nod [2008-01-23 22:26:27] <Mike_lifeguard> If it's just "let's get grants" that isn't very helpful. Instead we want something like [2008-01-23 22:26:55] <BDerksen> Are there communities in the far north that lack internet connectivity, that could perhaps use local copies of Wikipedia? [2008-01-23 22:27:12] <BDerksen> That could be something along those lines. [2008-01-23 22:27:13] <Mike_lifeguard> "let's get grants from NSERC to do some research that is published on-wiki" [2008-01-23 22:27:17] <HOTR> We have to have some tactical pieces -- I just don't want to set them in concrete ... it wouldn't be fair to dictate what WM-Canada can do until we see the cashflow. [2008-01-23 22:27:56] <Mike_lifeguard> BDerksen: That's a great idea. The Foundation is supposed to be giving the sum of all human knowledge to the world - not just to the internet-connected world [2008-01-23 22:28:00] <HOTR> BDerksen: I think everyone has Internet access. But, what about collaborative learning? (This is a Wikiversity project) [2008-01-23 22:28:15] =-= Greeves has changed the topic to ``This channel is for discussion regarding the creation of Wikimedia Canada (WMC). | There will be a formal meeting on the 30th at 20:00 EST (or 1:00 UTC on the 31st) in this channel. Please RSVP here: http://tinyurl.com/2cbm22 The log will also be posted there afterwards.'' [2008-01-23 22:28:16] <HOTR> Mike_lifeguard: True enough [2008-01-23 22:28:32] <Mike_lifeguard> Yet I don't see any real attempts to deal with those global issues (though that doesn't mean they aren't there; I just don't see them) [2008-01-23 22:28:45] |<-- Shannie has left irc.freenode.net (Nick collision from services.) [2008-01-23 22:29:10] <OhanaUnited> woo, have fun getting funds from NSERC, their expection is crazy [2008-01-23 22:29:13] <HOTR> Well, we have to get the horse in front of the cart first :) [2008-01-23 22:29:21] <Mike_lifeguard> OK. This is looking like we're seriously winding down. Any objections if we cut it off there, and join up again next week same time? [2008-01-23 22:29:28] <OhanaUnited> WikiSpecies definetely needs a hand from everyone [2008-01-23 22:29:31] -->| huggle (n=Shanel@wikimedia/Shanel) has joined #wikimedia-ca [2008-01-23 22:29:33] =-= huggle is now known as Shanel [2008-01-23 22:29:37] <HOTR> wb Shanel [2008-01-23 22:29:59] <HOTR> Is there any other issues we have to cover? [2008-01-23 22:30:07] <Mike_lifeguard> I'll stay around until we're through, I'm just checking if we are. [2008-01-23 22:30:22] <OhanaUnited> HOTR: for today? [2008-01-23 22:30:24] <HOTR> We have got a good handle on "why" ... is there anything except "how" left? [2008-01-23 22:30:39] <Mike_lifeguard> The purpose of WMC was the big thing I wanted to get out of the way, because I wasn't realyl sure whether I wanted to get involved [2008-01-23 22:30:42] =-= Az1568 is now known as Az1568_ [2008-01-23 22:30:50] <HOTR> nod [2008-01-23 22:31:00] <HOTR> It's important, no question. [2008-01-23 22:31:17] <Mike_lifeguard> And it looks like dealing with the bylaws will be done next week, so make sure you do your homework, children [2008-01-23 22:31:47] <Shanel> ty HOTR :) [2008-01-23 22:31:55] <OhanaUnited> LOL [2008-01-23 22:32:01] =-= Az1568_ is now known as Az1568 [2008-01-23 22:32:10] <Mike_lifeguard> going once... [2008-01-23 22:32:10] <HOTR> Here's a brainstorming one: We should produce a media guide for teachers so they can help their students use (and not abuse) Wikimedia resources. Like quoting and referencing Wikipedia, not copying and plagiarising text out of it. [2008-01-23 22:32:17] <OhanaUnited> alright, i'm off now, but i'll remain in IRC just in case u guys need me [2008-01-23 22:32:19] <Mike_lifeguard> that's good too [2008-01-23 22:32:32] <Mike_lifeguard> day one of psych, my prof went on a rampage about how WP is verboten [2008-01-23 22:32:51] <HOTR> Should I touch base with the legal begal before our next meeting? [2008-01-23 22:32:59] <Mike_lifeguard> I really wanted to stand up and say "Lookit! You can't use WP like you do your textbook, but it can be used effectively; here's how" [2008-01-23 22:33:30] <HOTR> Mike_lifeguard: nod [2008-01-23 22:33:33] <Mike_lifeguard> HOTR: I think that sounds like a good idea [2008-01-23 22:33:51] <Mike_lifeguard> I'm going to stop logging now, and go put this on meta [2008-01-23 22:33:55] <Mike_lifeguard> kosher?

Summary of the meeting

Extremely short summary of what was discussed, if you don't feel like reading the whole log. No guarantee of completeness.

1. We started by introducing everyone
2. We have two sets of bylaws up for consideration, went through the local chapter FAQ and step-by-step guide to create a local chapter. Please read them before the meeting on the 30th so we can talk intelligently about them. They need to be good if this is to get off the ground
3. We mostly talked about what WMC's activities might be once it gets off the ground. This was important because some people were unsure of what the point is of having a Canadian chapter. We need to know where we're going if we're to get there. Some of the ideas put forth
   • WMC gives us an official face to go around evangelizing and/or asking for donations, grants, services etc. It gives the request some oomph that wouldn't be there if it's just some random person asking
   • Promoting Wikipedia's sister projects. Several people noted that Wikipedia gets most of the attention, and that other projects (Wikibooks and Wikispecies were mentioned, but there are obviously others) are often neglected
   • Similarly, this happens with technology. Commons, for example, is using MediaWiki for something it was never intended for, and really needs some work done in the areas of searching and cataloging the media stored there. Likewise with Wikibooks.
   • Promoting all the WMF projects to the public to recruit new contributors
   • Evangelizing for free-culture and wikis in general
   • Lobbying the government to get works by government employees released into the public domain, as in Holland and the US
   • Applying for grants to get revenue for our projects
   • Putting some money into technologies for the non-Wikipedia projects, as they've been somewhat neglected
   • Operating a secondary backup database in case of catastrophic failure of both the main database servers and the toolserver's replicated database servers
   • Investing in research relevant to the goals of the WMF/WMC
   • Providing copies of WMF projects to Canadians in remote areas
   • Creating a media guide for teachers and professors regarding how Wikipedia (and the other projects) can be used responsibly in an academic setting as both a teaching and learning tool
   • Obtaining charity status after the formation of local chapter
4. We discussed the acronym, and generally decided WMC would be used
5. We discussed the WMHK status, and how to avoid a similar "limbo" situation
6. We thought about having our bylaws vetted by a lawyer to take care of the above
7. It was pointed out that incorporating in Ontario would be a bad idea, but apparently incorporation will be federal, making this a moot point
8. The steering committee was brought up, and several people expressed interest in serving
9. Bilingualism was discussed, and we identified people who could serve as translator as needed

Previous meeting: ─

WMC Initial Informal Meeting January 23, 2008

Next meeting: January 30, 2008