Wikimania 2010/Bids/Public meeting log
< Wikimania 2010 | Bids
This meeting look place on March 29th 2009, at between 19:10 and 21:48 UTC. All times in this log are UTC.
Amsterdam
[edit][2009-03-29 19:10:44] <brassratgirl> who is speaking for amsterdam?
[2009-03-29 19:10:54] <effeietsanders> hi :) thanks
[2009-03-29 19:11:04] <effeietsanders> First of all, the Dutch team would like to thank the jury for their time and presence here tonight.
I hope you all have had the opportunity to read the bid, and we will be happy to answer all questions about it.
[2009-03-29 19:11:25] <effeietsanders> The Dutch team has quite an explicit view on Wikimania. Wikimania is an important social event to many
Wikimedians. Therefore, we think that the ambiance for this event should be one that is open, welcoming, cozy and without many
thresholds to communicate. To make this happen, we feel that social activities are very imporant for the attendees, and intend to
give special attention to this...
[2009-03-29 19:11:27] <effeietsanders> ...aspect of the conference.
[2009-03-29 19:12:07] <effeietsanders> Amsterdam is of course an ideal city for this purpose. With plenty of opportunities for accommodation, side
locations, social activities and touristic sites in all categories, Wikimedians should never have to feel bored, and will always
find a place to go with a group of new (or old) friends.
[2009-03-29 19:12:34] <effeietsanders> We chose the warm and historic Tuschinski Theater to make this ambiance possible. Tuschinski, primarily designed
as a cinema in Art Deco and Jugendstil, will give Wikimania a special touch, and should make the Wikimedians feel right at home.
[2009-03-29 19:12:55] <effeietsanders> Although Tuschinski is a very special venue for this purpose, it has hosted large conferences before, as well as
similar events. With the combination of NH Hotels and Stayokay we'll be able to accommodate all Wikimaniacs in their preferred
way.
[2009-03-29 19:13:20] <effeietsanders> All of this will be organized by a team of Wikimedians that have in-house experience on national events,
technical and financial affairs. Several team members have attended previous Wikimanias. The local team is backed up by a
practiced chapter with loads of experience organizing events and with a large group of supporters.
[2009-03-29 19:13:49] <effeietsanders> We feel greatly confident and passionate about our organizational team being able to make Wikimania Amsterdam a
very successful event. Our letters of support and our board of recommendation tell us we’re on the right track.
[2009-03-29 19:14:12] <effeietsanders> We can only hope that our passion and confidence is being shared amongst the jury as well as amongst the other
parties.
[2009-03-29 19:14:44] <effeietsanders> We'd welcome any questions :)
[2009-03-29 19:15:25] <fschulenburg> First of all, congratulations to all three bidding teams. You've put a lot of effort in your bids and the results
are amazing :-)
[2009-03-29 19:15:28] <brassratgirl> ok, thank you!
[2009-03-29 19:15:54] <brassratgirl> so, questions from the jury
[2009-03-29 19:16:14] <wing2> Ok, I will begin
[2009-03-29 19:16:34] <wing2> Amsterdam. First question: in your bid budget you didn't mentioned the VIP party
[2009-03-29 19:16:37] <wing2> how about that?
[2009-03-29 19:16:59] <brassratgirl> thanks wing.
[2009-03-29 19:17:26] <effeietsanders> Hi, thanks :) They are not planned as of yet. However, there are enough possibilities for VIP-activities.
[2009-03-29 19:17:37] <effeietsanders> ...
[2009-03-29 19:18:01] <brassratgirl> ok. anything else about that?
[2009-03-29 19:18:08] <wing2> Ok. Second question: The venue
[2009-03-29 19:18:14] <effeietsanders> Organising VIP-activities has a lower priority because there are many shapes possible, and it will depend on
some unknown factors whether we want to organize one at all, and in which shape etc
[2009-03-29 19:18:24] <effeietsanders> *planning the..
[2009-03-29 19:18:24] <effeietsanders> :)
[2009-03-29 19:18:39] <wing2> You mentioned 6 autitoriums and 4 large corridors, are there also smaller rooms for speakers, teams, board?
[2009-03-29 19:19:09] <brassratgirl> ok. thanks. also, just as a general point, we can ask followup questions later as well :)
[2009-03-29 19:20:05] <brassratgirl> do you have a reply about the venue?
[2009-03-29 19:20:25] <[MarkW]> wing2: Thanks. Apart from the corridors, which can serve as rooms. We also have a VIP-room to use for these activities.
Any other needs will be solved by using other rooms available in the nearby surroundings of Tuschinski.
[2009-03-29 19:21:02] <wing2> Thanks MarkW for the answer
[2009-03-29 19:21:05] <delphine> ok, next question comes from me. it will end when I write: done!
[2009-03-29 19:21:09] <delphine> I am concerned about one thing, which has come over and over again in the past wikimania, and that is the "community"
gathering location (or whatever you want to call it)
[2009-03-29 19:21:16] <delphine> Hotels and location are not in the same place
[2009-03-29 19:21:24] <delphine> which does for a dispersed "feeling"
[2009-03-29 19:21:34] <delphine> how do you plan to work around that?
[2009-03-29 19:21:35] <delphine> done!
[2009-03-29 19:22:05] <[MarkW]> I'll take your question delphine :-)
[2009-03-29 19:22:13] <delphine> (read "past wikimaniaS")
[2009-03-29 19:22:51] <delphine> ok [MarkW] with the impossible autocomplete name :P
[2009-03-29 19:23:39] <brassratgirl> ok
[2009-03-29 19:23:51] <effeietsanders> (sorry, it takes time to type ;-) )
[2009-03-29 19:23:51] <[MarkW]> * is typing ;-)
[2009-03-29 19:25:00] <[MarkW]> Delphine: the NH Hotels have sufficient spaces available for social gatherings for the community. Apart from that, and
the fact that Amsterdam offers enough possibilities for people to enjoy together.
[2009-03-29 19:25:06] <[MarkW]> Along with that, we want the Party to take place on the first day, ensuring people to have met already, making it easy
for them to come together on the other conference days.
[2009-03-29 19:25:36] <[MarkW]> done!
[2009-03-29 19:25:38] <delphine> is there "gathering space" on location (besides the halls/rooms)?
[2009-03-29 19:26:27] <[MarkW]> delphine: Thanks, *typing again*
[2009-03-29 19:29:25] <[MarkW]> Delphine: In Tuschinski, we've got two lounges/foyers where people can meet during the day. Both lounges are open all
day. For the evening, people can meet in NH hotels and/or the Stay Okay....
[2009-03-29 19:29:31] <[MarkW]> ....However, as said before, we can always arrange another special social gathering point, at walking distance from
Tuschinski to ensure a "real" community-place.
[2009-03-29 19:29:41] <delphine> ok. Thanx for your answers. done!
[2009-03-29 19:30:10] <brassratgirl> OK, mido is next
[2009-03-29 19:30:10] <Mido> Next to Amsterdam from me,
[2009-03-29 19:30:29] <Mido> About accommodation,
[2009-03-29 19:30:44] <Mido> How do you plan to handle reserving for attendants in the hotels you mentioned?
[2009-03-29 19:30:47] <Mido> will there be some kind of deals between the organization team and the hotels? any chance you can get special rates?
[2009-03-29 19:30:49] <Mido> done!
[2009-03-29 19:31:00] <effeietsanders> Mido: thanks, I'll take it :)
[2009-03-29 19:34:53] <effeietsanders> We strive to arrange the hotel rooms centrally to help the visitors to book their rooms most easily.
[2009-03-29 19:35:00] <effeietsanders> We researched the options of block booking in the hotels already a bit, and were already able to get a reduced
price, with the ability to negotiate further once we got the bid.
[2009-03-29 19:35:03] <effeietsanders> (done)
[2009-03-29 19:35:31] <Mido> ok, I will follow up on that later in the talk page.
[2009-03-29 19:35:44] <Mido> for now, another question: How you gonna handle internet coverage within the venue?
[2009-03-29 19:36:03] <effeietsanders> thanks, I'll take it as well
[2009-03-29 19:37:59] <effeietsanders> There are several technical people in the local team. One of them is Mark Bergsma, Wikimedia's Network
coordinator, who will make sure that there are wireless access points throughout the venue.
[2009-03-29 19:38:58] <effeietsanders> which will be of the required quality :)
[2009-03-29 19:39:01] <effeietsanders> (done)
[2009-03-29 19:39:28] <effeietsanders> (very technical questions might be better on the talkpage)
[2009-03-29 19:39:52] <brassratgirl> right. let's post technical details as a followup
[2009-03-29 19:40:41] <brassratgirl> ok, I'm taking two community questions now, then the rest at the end
[2009-03-29 19:40:43] <kibble> (questions from the audience, I presume :-) )
[2009-03-29 19:40:46] <brassratgirl> in the interests of time
[2009-03-29 19:40:56] <aude-wiki> How will the lunches be setup? the bid page mentions buffet style? Will there be a central place for attendees to
sit and eat, banquet style or what?
[2009-03-29 19:41:24] <[MarkW]> aude-wiki: Thanks, I'll take that question :-)
[2009-03-29 19:41:28] <brassratgirl> (also, there's a question from fschulenburg
[2009-03-29 19:41:44] <fschulenburg> ok, my turn
[2009-03-29 19:42:05] <brassratgirl> :)
[2009-03-29 19:42:19] <brassratgirl> go ahead and ask your question
[2009-03-29 19:42:25] <brassratgirl> then we'll have both answers
[2009-03-29 19:42:29] <fschulenburg> The total costs of your bid are higher than those of the two other bids. Do you see any ways to reduce the costs?
[2009-03-29 19:43:11] <effeietsanders> fschulenburg: I'll take yours
[2009-03-29 19:43:39] <[MarkW]> aude-wiki: The lunch will indeed be buffet style, served in the main foyer of the theater. People who are willing to
sit down can use the cinema halls for the lunch, but can also find a (sitting)spot in the broad 2-level hallways of the theater.
[2009-03-29 19:43:59] <saper> Is VIP stay included in AMS budget?
[2009-03-29 19:44:44] <Ciell> aude-wiki: there will be catered for vegetarians by the way, we made sure about that ;)
[2009-03-29 19:44:59] <[MarkW]> saper: That you, I'll take yours
[2009-03-29 19:45:02] <brassratgirl> ok, saper is the last question
[2009-03-29 19:45:05] <brassratgirl> for now :)
[2009-03-29 19:45:17] <brassratgirl> then we will have a 3 minute break between the bids
[2009-03-29 19:45:42] <brassratgirl> let me know if you have more questions, we can have more at the end
[2009-03-29 19:47:38] <brassratgirl> MarkW?
[2009-03-29 19:47:51] <kibble> effeietsanders? :-)
[2009-03-29 19:47:58] <[MarkW]> brassratgirl: Still typing :-)
[2009-03-29 19:48:05] <brassratgirl> ok :)
[2009-03-29 19:48:22] <effeietsanders> frank: Thanks for asking. The budget might indeed seem somewhat high, but please note that the budget has been
set up in a very conservative way and not all quotations are received yet. Expenses are likely to go down singificantly on the
technical and internet topics. Apart from that we expect in-kind sponsoring to lower the budget even more.. We tried to make sure
we don't under budget by...
[2009-03-29 19:48:23] <[MarkW]> Three questions at the same time is playing a bit with our minds :P
[2009-03-29 19:48:24] <effeietsanders> ...estimating expenses too low and made some high assumptions.
[2009-03-29 19:48:48] <fschulenburg> thank you
[2009-03-29 19:48:51] <effeietsanders> saper: the VIP's who are also speaker on the conference are budgeted for partially (keynotes and invited
speakers might get accommodation arranged).
[2009-03-29 19:49:22] <effeietsanders> we got all now, right?
[2009-03-29 19:49:27] <effeietsanders> (and done twice )
[2009-03-29 19:50:31] <brassratgirl> ok, fabulous
[2009-03-29 19:50:33] <brassratgirl> thank you
[2009-03-29 19:50:52] <kibble> Airwolf_, wpedzich; you guys have a 3 minute break before you present though :-)
[2009-03-29 19:50:53] <brassratgirl> if there are more questions for amsterdam, you can ask them at the end !
[2009-03-29 19:50:58] * wpedzich can start when you folks say you're ready
[2009-03-29 19:51:19] <wpedzich> I will be around, just ping me when the cigarette break is over
[2009-03-29 19:51:27] <brassratgirl> now: let's reconvene in 4 mins
[2009-03-29 19:52:04] <brassratgirl> at 19:55
[2009-03-29 19:52:11] <brassratgirl> (utc)
Gdansk
[edit][2009-03-29 19:57:18] <brassratgirl> OK, let's go!
[2009-03-29 19:57:30] * wpedzich turns on the microphone
[2009-03-29 19:57:31] <brassratgirl> wpedzich?
[2009-03-29 19:57:39] <wpedzich> We would like to thank everyone for taking their time to read the bid (hope you liked it!), also thanks for the
remarks. Being on the shortlist already means that Poland is perceived as a stable partner for organising large-scale conferences.
[2009-03-29 19:57:53] <wpedzich> The bid unites Eastern Europe, the part of the continent which has only recently opened up to the rest of the world.
Even though it's been a number of years, this part of Europe can still be considered unexplored and 'new', so participation in
Wikimania in Gdansk will certainly mean a whole new cultural experience.
[2009-03-29 19:58:08] <wpedzich> PL community is large enough to organize event of the Wikimania size, we believe that the proximity of Gdansk as well
as low cost for the attendees will attract smaller Wiki communities. Gdansk authorities have proved capable of holding
large-scale events, such as the recent Lech Wałęsa Nobel Peace Prize anniversary. We are sure the Philharmonic, where we mainly
plan to host the event...
[2009-03-29 19:58:09] <wpedzich> ...(located within the Old Town, but a little on the side so that not many people will bother us) will stand up for
the occasion completely.
[2009-03-29 19:58:51] <wpedzich> Gdansk authorities have voiced their support for the idea, which further stabilises the bid's position. Also, a
number of NGOs are supporting us, and the companies and organisations we've spoken to after the media coverage of the bid react
favourably to the idea of hosting the largest Wikimedia event in the city.
[2009-03-29 19:59:24] <wpedzich> We're already cooperating with the neighbouring communities – Russia, Ukraine, Czech Republic, the Balkans. We
visited Russian and Serb Wikimedia conferences last year, people from CZ are frequent guests to all our events. We want to spread
the free culture movement in those directions and Gdansk Wikimania would be just the occasion to make that visible.
[2009-03-29 19:59:49] <wpedzich> Apart from the core conference functions, you will surely notice that our bid focuses on additional activities,
promoting the 'wiki' idea, attracting people and organisations to participate in the spreading of free culture; also giving the
participants unique experience during the event.
[2009-03-29 20:00:20] <wpedzich> Our bid contains unique sections, such as the carbon neutrality certificate, and I do not want to take up your time
repeating things from it. We're ready though to answer any questions you may have.
[2009-03-29 20:01:05] <wpedzich> I think that this will be it as far as the introduction goes - we are open to suggestions and Qs.
[2009-03-29 20:01:11] <brassratgirl> ok, super, thank you!
[2009-03-29 20:01:17] <brassratgirl> ok, questions from the jury?
[2009-03-29 20:01:35] <Mido> Ok, Here's mine
[2009-03-29 20:01:46] <Mido> it's not very clear in your bid nor your introduction now how you're handling the venue and where the sessions will take
place, can you clarify this point?
[2009-03-29 20:02:15] <Mido> will it take place in 2-3 venues or just the Philharmonic?
[2009-03-29 20:02:25] <wpedzich> Mido: I'll take it (typing)
[2009-03-29 20:02:26] <Mido> done! (thanks to delphine for the idea)
[2009-03-29 20:02:53] <delphine> :P
[2009-03-29 20:03:06] <wpedzich> The main place, where most of the conference functions are located will be the Philharmonic. Additional conference
facilities will be available from the Museum and the Królewski Hotel
[2009-03-29 20:03:38] <wpedzich> All these three buildings are locatedd in the same area (Google Maps so says), getting from one to any other will take
you but a few steps
[2009-03-29 20:03:47] <wpedzich> (done)
[2009-03-29 20:03:58] <saper> They share a common yard that will make a great community area.
[2009-03-29 20:04:08] <wpedzich> they're adjacent even :)
[2009-03-29 20:04:25] <wing2> A follow up question: Do I need to go from one building to another if I want to attend another session?
[2009-03-29 20:04:57] <wpedzich> You will probably need to - we will take the hotel for interviews, conferences, while the Museum will make three
conference halls available.
[2009-03-29 20:05:07] <Mido> I would appreciate a map on the page, please :)
[2009-03-29 20:05:16] <wpedzich> We will habdle it shortly.
[2009-03-29 20:05:19] <delphine> which answers my question then, which was the same as for Amsterdam, quid of the community area. I take as an answer
that there is a common yard. A "map" would be good :P
[2009-03-29 20:05:22] <wing2> ok thanks wpedzich
[2009-03-29 20:05:31] * delphine is done.
[2009-03-29 20:05:43] <Airwolf_> the map will be here in a moment and on the bid page a moment later
[2009-03-29 20:05:49] <saper> It's all on a small island, those places are like 50 m meters away.
[2009-03-29 20:05:51] <wpedzich> delphine: repeat, a map will be made available within the next few days - I think it doesn't majorly change the bid,
so we'll place it :)
[2009-03-29 20:06:07] <brassratgirl> great, thanks :)
[2009-03-29 20:06:12] <Mido> Thanks!
[2009-03-29 20:06:19] <delphine> thank you!
[2009-03-29 20:06:30] * delphine thanks the dutch she hasn't thanked before.
[2009-03-29 20:07:07] <fschulenburg> In your bid you mention sponsors who might be able to cover "the major part of the budget expenses". Please tell
us a little bit more about the progress of your talks with these sponsors.
[2009-03-29 20:07:43] <wpedzich> fschulenburg: I'll take it
[2009-03-29 20:07:58] <wpedzich> (clicking and typing)
[2009-03-29 20:08:41] <saper> the map of the island: http://tinyurl.com/d5cqpd
[2009-03-29 20:08:42] <_sj_> A map would be excellent
[2009-03-29 20:08:56] <brassratgirl> thanks, and I think we'll open it up to community questions after this one
[2009-03-29 20:09:26] <wpedzich> We're talking with one of the major telecom operators, whose PR agency is looking quite favourably at the bid. If
successful, this one can provide up to a half of the budget expenses (hoe I haven't said too much)
[2009-03-29 20:09:51] <wpedzich> the other one, talks with whom are less advanced, is a computer equipment manufacturer.
[2009-03-29 20:10:14] <_sj_> saper : can you say more about the common yard / community area?
[2009-03-29 20:10:22] <wpedzich> Wikimedia Polska's press office is conducting talks with both.
[2009-03-29 20:10:34] <fschulenburg> wpedzich: thank you :-)
[2009-03-29 20:10:34] <saper> _sj_: see the small roundabout next to "A"?
[2009-03-29 20:10:37] <saper> this is it
[2009-03-29 20:11:07] <Airwolf_> not next to A
[2009-03-29 20:11:08] <brassratgirl> OK, I think we have some community questions
[2009-03-29 20:11:10] <Airwolf_> next to B :)
[2009-03-29 20:11:13] <saper> and there is a ship anchored (Soldek) that will possibly host hacking/networking area, too
[2009-03-29 20:11:17] <brassratgirl> aude-wiki, you are first?
[2009-03-29 20:11:26] <brassratgirl> map drtails can go on the wiki :)
[2009-03-29 20:11:28] <aude-wiki> Where will hacking days be held? what are the costs for the hacking days venue?
[2009-03-29 20:11:37] <Airwolf_> the entire square will be equipped with benches and stuff so as to make it nice and cozy
[2009-03-29 20:11:53] <_sj_> thank you.
[2009-03-29 20:12:43] <[Fontes]> thanks
[2009-03-29 20:12:44] <[Fontes]> If I understood correctly you want to use the garden as a community area. According to the bid page the temperature is
between 55 and 70 degrees Fahrenheit. If the weather is not as good as we all hope it will be, is there a possibility for an
community area with a roof?
[2009-03-29 20:12:49] <saper> two locations are considered
[2009-03-29 20:12:56] <saper> either the philharmonic itself
[2009-03-29 20:13:00] <aude-wiki> second question - How will the lunches be setup? banquet style? buffet style? box lunches? will there be a central
place for attendees to eat lunch?
[2009-03-29 20:13:05] <Airwolf_> i'll take the question by Fontes, please
[2009-03-29 20:13:13] <wpedzich> I'll take aude-wiki's
[2009-03-29 20:13:14] <saper> or the ship anchored being part of the maritime museum
[2009-03-29 20:13:26] <brassratgirl> ok, there's a short queue of questions
[2009-03-29 20:13:42] <McFifthColumn> thanks
[2009-03-29 20:13:46] <brassratgirl> let's get the answers to aude's and fontes
[2009-03-29 20:14:12] <brassratgirl> then roan, then mcfifthcolumn
[2009-03-29 20:14:13] <Airwolf_> it's not really a garden, more like a square, and yes, it will be possible to ccover the area with a large tent or a
set of smaller tents, there will probably be no need for additional heating
[2009-03-29 20:14:16] <McFifthColumn> how about wireless coverage? will all the venues be well covered? second thing, how about people with laptops,
will there be enough power outlets in conference sites or time to charge batteries?
[2009-03-29 20:14:42] <Airwolf_> the answer for Fontes is done
[2009-03-29 20:14:46] <[Fontes]> Thanks Airwolf_
[2009-03-29 20:15:06] <wpedzich> aude-wiki: as far as lunches (and a dinner) are concerned, the venue does not provide sufficient space for a sit-down
dinner, so the meals will be served buffet-style. We're planning to use the Philharmonic's foyer. Additional info, we've already
received a lunch-and-dinner offer, taking care not to omit vegetarians and e.g. Muslim culinary standards.
[2009-03-29 20:15:31] <wpedzich> <done as far as this Q is concerned)
[2009-03-29 20:15:53] <wpedzich> I think masti will take care of the wifi question?
[2009-03-29 20:16:10] <[Fontes]> ok, second question: Poland has, unfortunately, a name for an anti-gay / homophobic attitude. Is there a way you will
cope with that?
[2009-03-29 20:17:35] <aude-wiki> third question from me - What are the seating capacities for the Central Maritime Museum rooms? And for both venues,
are the room capacity numbers given for theater seating or classroom-style seating? I would also like to request a floor plan
for both the Museum and the Philharmonic. An external link to this information would suffice.
[2009-03-29 20:17:51] <masti> regarding Wifi question
[2009-03-29 20:18:12] <masti> we will have a wiereless coverage in whole wikimania area
[2009-03-29 20:18:37] <masti> 100mbps fiber intrnet link is arranged
[2009-03-29 20:18:55] <masti> and I will make sure we have it distributed via WiFi
[2009-03-29 20:19:28] <masti> regarding homophobic attitude
[2009-03-29 20:19:51] <wpedzich> aude-wiki: the museum conference rooms ought to take 200 + 90 + 100 people. We're counting all these for to be
classroom-orientation
[2009-03-29 20:19:56] <masti> we, as organizing committee cannot change a way some of the prominent politicians
[2009-03-29 20:20:00] <masti> are behaving
[2009-03-29 20:20:31] <masti> in general the homophobic attitude is seen in newspapers only
[2009-03-29 20:20:43] <masti> it is a media-fact not a real one
[2009-03-29 20:20:46] <aude-wiki> The budget for the parties is quite high. Why so high? Any way to reduce the costs? Please provide more details
and budget breakdown for the party (on the bid page is okay)?
[2009-03-29 20:20:55] <brassratgirl> OK, let
[2009-03-29 20:21:04] <brassratgirl> let's do the remaining questions in order
[2009-03-29 20:21:05] <aude-wiki> that was my last question for Gdansk
[2009-03-29 20:21:15] <brassratgirl> accommodation, then party budget
[2009-03-29 20:21:22] <wpedzich> I'll take aude-wiki's question
[2009-03-29 20:21:22] <brassratgirl> I believe those are the last questions
[2009-03-29 20:21:30] <[Fontes]> follow up: will there be any chance that gay attendees have any risk being insulted/harmed?
[2009-03-29 20:21:32] <masti> our gay community has arranged a yearly party
[2009-03-29 20:21:48] <wpedzich> last remark - I'll make the floor arrangements available ASAP
[2009-03-29 20:21:51] <masti> in Warsaw
[2009-03-29 20:21:59] <Airwolf_> Fontes: not higher than for non-LGBT participants
[2009-03-29 20:22:36] <saper> And Sopot, part of Tri-city, is a very popular LGBT meeting place
[2009-03-29 20:22:37] <masti> [Fontes], nope
[2009-03-29 20:23:06] <Airwolf_> obviously, it's a city like any other, thus it's not crime-free, but as far as i know there have been no reports of
hate-crimes in gdańsk
[2009-03-29 20:23:39] <RoanKattouw> Is the local team going to organize centralized accommodation for attendees? If so, where (how far from the venue)
and of what type / in what price range? From the looks of the geography, the island doesn't seem to be very close to the city
center, which would mean people would have to walk a bit from their accommodation to the venue, how long of a walk / bus ride
would that be?
[2009-03-29 20:23:47] * RoanKattouw curses IRC formatting
[2009-03-29 20:23:48] <wpedzich> from the offer we've received for the party it's evident it will be packed full of attractions - if you want, I will
make the description larger. We can give up some of the activities, which will naturally lower the costs. General remark
considering the budget, we've overbudgeted a bit, so if our bod is successful, we may even try and reduce the costs by several
procent without any impact on...
[2009-03-29 20:23:50] <wpedzich> ...the bid and its contents.
[2009-03-29 20:24:00] <brassratgirl> ok, so the next question is accomodation
[2009-03-29 20:24:17] <wpedzich> A lot depends on the negotiations when you can actually say "we have the conference", not "we're making the bid" -
when you don't get market prices anymore :)
[2009-03-29 20:25:00] <wpedzich> so that will be it as far as the party/budget question is concerned
[2009-03-29 20:25:10] <brassratgirl> thanks wpedzich
[2009-03-29 20:25:46] <Airwolf_> Roan's question will be mine, please
[2009-03-29 20:25:53] <brassratgirl> next question accommodation, then there is one more
[2009-03-29 20:25:55] * wpedzich scrolls up in search of questions to be answered.
[2009-03-29 20:26:05] <saper> RoanKattouw: there is a small ferry cruising next to SS Sołdek, so you are in the city centre in 10 minutes. Even
without using it, it's a bit over 15 minutes by foot.
[2009-03-29 20:26:08] <RoanKattouw> brassratgirl: Accomodation question was already asked above, Airwolf_'s on it
[2009-03-29 20:26:29] <RoanKattouw> saper: So then the center is West of the island?
[2009-03-29 20:26:42] <saper> RoanKattouw: the island is on the quieter bank of the Motława River, so you can avoid the traffic tourists bring this
time of year, while being very close.
[2009-03-29 20:26:45] <wpedzich> rohow do you understand "centralised" - located in the vicinity or organised / paid for by the team?
[2009-03-29 20:26:53] <wpedzich> awrr
[2009-03-29 20:26:57] <wpedzich> RoanKattouw: ^^ ")
[2009-03-29 20:27:09] <saper> RoanKattouw: yes, across the Motlawa river (where the Soldek is anchored)
[2009-03-29 20:27:26] <RoanKattouw> wpedzich: As in organized by the team (paid by the visitors of course :P ) and as in one or a few accomodations
where nearly all participants will be
[2009-03-29 20:27:42] <wpedzich> OK, Airwolf_ ^^ here's our clarification
[2009-03-29 20:27:42] <RoanKattouw> I don't see anything like that on the bid page, just a long list of hotels
[2009-03-29 20:27:59] <wpedzich> OK.
[2009-03-29 20:28:01] <saper> RoanKattouw: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:2003_12_23_Gdansk.jpeg - the centre is on the left, the venues on the
right
[2009-03-29 20:28:22] <RoanKattouw> saper: Great, thanks, that clarifies the geography for me
[2009-03-29 20:28:24] <saper> (on the second island, not the first one)
[2009-03-29 20:28:43] <brassratgirl> ok, does that answer the question?
[2009-03-29 20:29:09] <wpedzich> brassratgirl: Airwolf_ is on the accomodation one, and I think we're clear with Qs for the moment
[2009-03-29 20:29:18] <RoanKattouw> Not quite yet, I'm still wondering whether the organization will provide (semi-)centralized accomodation, but I
believe Airwolf_ is on that
[2009-03-29 20:30:22] <saper> RoanKattouw: we are ready to provide differenct accommodation levels. it is possible to say in Hotel Krolewski that's the
conference venue, too.
[2009-03-29 20:30:25] <Airwolf_> yes, assistance will be provided for participants as far as the accomodation is concerned, volunteers will be assigned
who will run a "central reception desk", thus participants will be able to have their accommodation arranged through us without
needing to ask in one hotel after another
[2009-03-29 20:31:31] <RoanKattouw> Great, that answers my question(s), feel free to unvoice me now :)
[2009-03-29 20:31:39] <Airwolf_> unfortunately, it is not possible to hold all participants in one hotel. however, as is clarified in the bid, a number
of hotels and hostels are located relatively near the venue (remember, that the river has its ferry)
[2009-03-29 20:32:08] <brassratgirl> ok, thanks
[2009-03-29 20:32:12] <Airwolf_> moreover, refund deals with hotels are planned, for the obvious reason that we will provide them with numeours geust
[2009-03-29 20:32:14] <Airwolf_> s
[2009-03-29 20:32:20] <brassratgirl> I think there are two more questions
[2009-03-29 20:32:21] <Airwolf_> that is all, than you :)
[2009-03-29 20:32:33] <brassratgirl> first McFifthColumn, then Aude
[2009-03-29 20:32:53] * wpedzich drops the photo of a ferry: http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Gda%C5%84sk_80.JPG
[2009-03-29 20:33:28] <brassratgirl> or Aude-wiki first, if you are ready :)
[2009-03-29 20:33:34] <saper> the marina behind the ferry is 200 meters away from the venue
[2009-03-29 20:33:43] <aude-wiki> i'm ready
[2009-03-29 20:34:00] <aude-wiki> Transport to/from the airport is mentioned in the budget. Please elaborate. What will the organizing team handle
for attendees?
[2009-03-29 20:34:04] <wpedzich> hehe
[2009-03-29 20:34:08] <wpedzich> ouch sorry
[2009-03-29 20:34:40] <Airwolf_> transportation is my part, so i'll take it
[2009-03-29 20:37:48] <Airwolf_> we have basically already arranged with ZKM - the city's main bus operator - that they will be able to rent us buses
which will take participants from the airport to the city centre. optionally, a larger coach may be rented and vans for VIPs.
moreover, we hope to sign a deal with a taxi company which will give discounts to participants, though due to the ecological
issues we would favour a...
[2009-03-29 20:37:49] <Airwolf_> ...deal in a form requiring participants to travel by threes, not individualy
[2009-03-29 20:38:08] <Airwolf_> to be continued...
[2009-03-29 20:38:50] <Airwolf_> moreover, as is mentioned on the bid page, we'll rent a retro-tram which will be able to take participants from the
city centre to places of interest
[2009-03-29 20:38:52] <Airwolf_> done
[2009-03-29 20:39:14] <Airwolf_> (obviously, the buses/coaches we rent will be for free)
[2009-03-29 20:39:38] <Austin_> Sorry, what's a "retro-tram?"
[2009-03-29 20:39:59] <wpedzich> Austin_: there's a photo on the bod page - an old-style one
[2009-03-29 20:40:04] <wpedzich> bid*
[2009-03-29 20:40:06] <Airwolf_> Austin_: it's shown on the bid page, it's a tram which has not been used for 40 years
[2009-03-29 20:40:09] <Austin_> Oh, like a trolley?
[2009-03-29 20:40:10] <masti> Austin, 50 yeras old tram
[2009-03-29 20:40:14] <Airwolf_> but is still prefectly operational
[2009-03-29 20:40:25] <wpedzich> http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Konstal_N_Gda%C5%84sk.jpg this cutey
[2009-03-29 20:40:39] <Austin_> Nifty, thanks.
[2009-03-29 20:40:57] <brassratgirl> ok, is that all about transit?
[2009-03-29 20:41:34] <saper> the airport is less than 10km away, so that's not far away
[2009-03-29 20:41:44] <[Fontes]> I have one about the ferry.
[2009-03-29 20:41:46] <brassratgirl> McFifthColumn is next, and a quick clarification from [Fontes]
[2009-03-29 20:41:55] <[Fontes]> ok ;-)
[2009-03-29 20:42:06] <wpedzich> additional remark - Tricity's public transport network is considered to be one of the coubtry's best
[2009-03-29 20:42:30] <wpedzich> logically constructed around fast urban raileay and a combination of buses, electric buses (Gdynia) and trams
[2009-03-29 20:42:42] <wpedzich> operating day-and-night
[2009-03-29 20:43:28] <McFifthColumn> ok, again about the laptops, I' sure a lot of people will take them and will use them, will there be enough power
outlets on conference sites? or enough time to recharge batteries between different events? how will that be organised?
[2009-03-29 20:43:31] <wpedzich> (/remark>
[2009-03-29 20:44:04] <wpedzich> McFifthColumn: I'll take it
[2009-03-29 20:44:19] <wpedzich> with additional remarks from masti
[2009-03-29 20:44:35] <masti> yes, power outlets will be provided
[2009-03-29 20:44:43] <wpedzich> The venue has assured us power outlets will be distributed in a number suffiient to satisfy the needs.
[2009-03-29 20:44:56] <wpedzich> sufficient*, sorry for my typing skills :(
[2009-03-29 20:45:19] <wpedzich> we are aware 2/3 or more of the participants will take their mobile computers.
[2009-03-29 20:45:36] <wpedzich> and we'll take care of it.
[2009-03-29 20:45:39] <wpedzich> </answer>
[2009-03-29 20:45:51] <brassratgirl> OK, thanks
[2009-03-29 20:46:08] <brassratgirl> OK, I think that's it for the questions
[2009-03-29 20:46:08] <brassratgirl> we need to move along
[2009-03-29 20:46:10] <brassratgirl> thank you everyone
[2009-03-29 20:46:18] * wpedzich bows corteously.
[2009-03-29 20:46:18] <[Fontes]> pardon?
[2009-03-29 20:46:28] <brassratgirl> sorry. Is it quick?
[2009-03-29 20:46:33] <brassratgirl> can it go on the wiki? :)
[2009-03-29 20:46:35] <[Fontes]> I think/hope so
[2009-03-29 20:46:37] <aude-wiki> thanks for answering my questions
[2009-03-29 20:46:50] <[Fontes]> sure it can ;-)
[2009-03-29 20:47:00] <brassratgirl> OK. Let's take a 5 minute break
[2009-03-29 20:47:09] <Airwolf_> whew
[2009-03-29 20:47:19] <brassratgirl> to utc 20:52
[2009-03-29 20:47:30] * wpedzich uses a towel (2x2m) to wipe his forehead and wrings it dry
[2009-03-29 20:47:32] <brassratgirl> thank you team gdansk for surviving the question flood
[2009-03-29 20:47:55] <Airwolf_> brassratgirl: poles are experienced with floods :)
[2009-03-29 20:48:05] <brassratgirl> :)
Oxford
[edit][2009-03-29 20:57:05] <brassratgirl> OK, and we're back from break!
[2009-03-29 20:57:13] <brassratgirl> next up: oxford
[2009-03-29 20:57:20] <brassratgirl> who is speaking for oxford?
[2009-03-29 20:57:25] <brassratgirl> Seddon ?
[2009-03-29 20:57:32] <Seddon> Yep thatll be me :)
[2009-03-29 20:58:07] <Seddon> Im ready when everyone else is :)
[2009-03-29 20:58:59] <brassratgirl> ok, go :)
[2009-03-29 20:59:19] <Seddon> On behalf of the Oxford bid team I thank you all for giving up your time attend this IRC meeting whatever time of day it
is in your various time zones.
[2009-03-29 20:59:43] <Seddon> Wikimania is the biggest event in the Foundation’s calendar and it is at the forefront of promoting free knowledge
across the globe. Is it because of this that that Oxford is so suited.
[2009-03-29 20:59:53] <Seddon> Oxford has been a global centre of knowledge since the 12th century and continues in this role to this day. Due to
Oxford being a compact city with transport, accommodation and venue all within close proximity, it is well suited to hosting an
international conference.
[2009-03-29 21:00:06] <Seddon> The venue for the main conference will be located in the town hall, a fantastic building constructed at the end of the
19th century capable of holding 750 people. It is regularly used for concerts, conferences, and social events. This venue will be
available for hire at 50% of the cost due to the charitable nature of the UK chapter and the Foundation
[2009-03-29 21:00:16] <Seddon> Accommodation will be hosted by university halls and high quality hostels with social spaces and should all have
internet access included. The town hall will be available for use in the evenings as well as a social space.
[2009-03-29 21:00:30] <Seddon> The Oxford bid is backed by Wikimedia UK, a new but very eager chapter, and a whole host of capable volunteers.
Sponsorship has been confirmed by three companies, Osmosoft (Open Source arm of BT), Socialtext and Headshift however specific
details and contracts will be drawn up after confirmation of the bid. Discussion has also started with one major global
financial/news corporation which...
[2009-03-29 21:00:32] <Seddon> ...has been received with great interest and discussion with another with a airline company is due to start on
Wednesday. We also hope to arrange in-kind donations for some of the items budgeted for, including confirmed access to BT's
technical catalogue.
[2009-03-29 21:01:21] <Seddon> We hope you’ll all look over the Oxford 2010 bid and we welcome any questions that may follow. Thank you for your time.
[2009-03-29 21:01:45] <delphine> Thanks. OK, so I'll go first. When I'm done, I'll say done!
[2009-03-29 21:01:56] <Seddon> sure thing
[2009-03-29 21:02:22] <delphine> I am not sure I get my geography right, so maybe I missed something, but it seems to me the conference venue and
possible accommodation place are in different places.
[2009-03-29 21:02:31] <delphine> As such, the same quesiton as for the other two bids apply
[2009-03-29 21:02:38] <delphine> what have you thought about for a community "area"
[2009-03-29 21:02:56] <delphine> ie. a place where people can gather before and after hours (although before... na.... forget this)
[2009-03-29 21:03:02] <delphine> done!
[2009-03-29 21:04:17] <Seddon> *typing*
[2009-03-29 21:05:27] <Seddon> In the conference venue, both the gallery and cafe will be used as communal areas during the day. After conference
hours, the town hall will still be able to be used as communal areas, as well as areas in the youth hostel and univeristy halls.
Oxford is also a small city, so travel distances in the city are not a huge problem
[2009-03-29 21:06:22] <Seddon> i think that answers it :)
[2009-03-29 21:06:36] <delphine> ok, so Town Hall open after hours. Sounds good. Thank you. :)
[2009-03-29 21:06:41] <delphine> next question!
[2009-03-29 21:06:55] <wing2> Ok, my question: In your bid you mentioned the chapter. But how about the local team?
[2009-03-29 21:07:31] <brassratgirl> oof
[2009-03-29 21:07:53] <wing2> That was my question. I am done
[2009-03-29 21:08:31] <Austin_> I think what we're looking for is clarification about the relationship between the chapter and the local team.
[2009-03-29 21:08:46] <Seddon> ok i think i understand *typing*
[2009-03-29 21:11:37] <Seddon> there is some overlap between the board and those actively involved in the chapter. chapter has given its full support
to the bid, has included updates on the newsletter, most people working on the bid are chapter members. The chapter board members
have also been acting within thier offical roles in supporting the bid.
[2009-03-29 21:11:53] <Tango42> *actively involved in the *bid*
[2009-03-29 21:12:21] <cfp> and can i add that after our AGM next month there will be a WMUK board member dedicated to the bid if we're successful
[2009-03-29 21:12:44] <Seddon> The chapter has used the weekly board meetings in the organisation of the bid as a chapter as well as bid specific
meetings.
[2009-03-29 21:13:08] <Austin_> Regarding "The Lord Mayor has expressed enthusiasm at the idea of Wikimania being held at the Town Hall and providing
the organisation making the booking is a registered charity we expect to be entitled to a 50% discount": would this charity be
WMUK?
[2009-03-29 21:13:27] <Tango42> Yes, it would
[2009-03-29 21:13:41] <Seddon> Austin_: Yes although i imagine the foundations charitable status would be valid as well
[2009-03-29 21:13:51] <Austin_> Thanks, that clarifies some questions about the flow of money. :)
[2009-03-29 21:14:12] <_sj_> the other bids clearly distinguish between the local team and other supporters; it's a bit less clear with your separate
pages
[2009-03-29 21:14:39] <_sj_> (for local team and organization). not a question, just a comment; perhaps there's some way to add detail to those pages
[2009-03-29 21:14:47] <Seddon> _sj_ : That will be something that will be clarified :)
[2009-03-29 21:14:54] <_sj_> I have a question about the budget :
[2009-03-29 21:15:07] <_sj_> you are preparing for 700 attendees, yet have a rather slender budget
[2009-03-29 21:15:20] <_sj_> do you have quotes for each of your items, or are they estimates?
[2009-03-29 21:15:45] <_sj_> could you say more about in-kind support you are expecting?
[2009-03-29 21:15:45] <_sj_> <done>
[2009-03-29 21:15:49] <brassratgirl> ok thanks
[2009-03-29 21:16:35] <Seddon> _sj_ Those values are a little of both. The venue and catering values were provided by the venue themselves.
[2009-03-29 21:17:15] <Seddon> But we have rounded the values up in case those qoutes changed between the bid and booking but are relatively stable
[2009-03-29 21:17:38] <Tango42> The catering price isn't finalised - at the absolute worst it will be an extra £6k, but that's unlikely.
[2009-03-29 21:17:50] <Seddon> The insurance value was also based on a qoute and rounded up
[2009-03-29 21:18:38] <Seddon> Promotional and Conference materials were again based on average qoutes and rounded up
[2009-03-29 21:18:54] <Tango42> The budget also includes £10k for contingencies, which should absorb any minor inaccuracies in the estimates
[2009-03-29 21:19:22] <Seddon> Party costs were based on qoutes and again rounded up
[2009-03-29 21:19:51] <Seddon> The may estimates were for organisation team and techincal facilities
[2009-03-29 21:20:21] <_sj_> thank you.
[2009-03-29 21:20:22] <Seddon> Most of the techical facilities will hopefully be sourced BT who will giving us access to thier techincal catalouge
[2009-03-29 21:20:31] <brassratgirl> thanks
[2009-03-29 21:20:44] <brassratgirl> when you're done, I think there's a followup community question
[2009-03-29 21:20:52] <FooBarMartijn> my question is closely related to that of _sj_. 20.000 pounds for all the catering, including lunch, seems very
much on the slender side. Now I don't want to appear as particularly hungry, but are there specifics on what kind of lunch are
you planning to serve on that budget?
[2009-03-29 21:21:54] <Seddon> tango will take this :)
[2009-03-29 21:23:07] <Tango42> Catering will include, at a minimum, tea, coffee and biscuits all day and a buffet style lunch (probably designed to be
taken away, due to limited space in one place - there are plenty of places for people to take their food once they've got it,
though)
[2009-03-29 21:23:43] <Seddon> The main hall as well as other halls will be set up to hold attendees
[2009-03-29 21:23:45] <Tango42> There is also a possibility of mid-morning pastries and maybe mid-afternoon cakes, but we may opt out of those to save
money
[2009-03-29 21:23:49] <brassratgirl> ok, thanks
[2009-03-29 21:23:54] <Tango42> (the £20k is without those extras)
[2009-03-29 21:23:57] <brassratgirl> next question is from aude I believe
[2009-03-29 21:24:30] <aude-wiki> For the session rooms, are the capacities listed for theatre style or classroom style seating?
[2009-03-29 21:26:05] <Tango42> give us a moment on that one - we think it's a mixture, just getting details
[2009-03-29 21:26:56] <Seddon> aude-wiki: All values for various set ups can be found here
http://www.oxford.gov.uk/files/seealsodocs/66407/Room%20technical%20specifications%20Mar%202007.pdf
[2009-03-29 21:27:15] <Seddon> those on the bid page are theatre style though
[2009-03-29 21:27:36] <aude-wiki> and the gallery doesn't count as a room, but rather a social area?
[2009-03-29 21:28:03] <Seddon> correct
[2009-03-29 21:28:10] <cfp> there are a wide range of types of rooms, and some would be more suitable for presentations, and others for discussions
[2009-03-29 21:28:32] <cfp> photographs can be seen here:
http://www.oxford.gov.uk/files/seealsodocs/66381/Rooms%20descriptions%202007.pdf
[2009-03-29 21:29:20] <Seddon> and virtual tour of the whole building here
[2009-03-29 21:29:22] <Seddon> http://www.chem.ox.ac.uk/oxfordtour/oxfordcitytours/townhall.asp
[2009-03-29 21:30:28] <brassratgirl> ok, thanks
[2009-03-29 21:30:33] <brassratgirl> I think next is masti
[2009-03-29 21:31:15] <masti> question regarding visas and Schengen
[2009-03-29 21:31:30] <masti> who will require visa to enter UK
[2009-03-29 21:31:41] <Tango42> I think there is a list on the bid page
[2009-03-29 21:31:49] <mpeel> see http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimania_2010/Bids/Oxford#Visa_issues
[2009-03-29 21:31:49] <masti> and what about immigration attitude to foreigners?
[2009-03-29 21:31:56] <Tango42> The UK is not in the Schengen zone
[2009-03-29 21:32:28] <Tango42> Attitude of who?
[2009-03-29 21:32:39] <masti> Tango42, immigration officers
[2009-03-29 21:33:19] <Tango42> If you have a return ticket and say you are going to a conference, I can't see any problems
[2009-03-29 21:33:45] <Seddon> Valid passports, visas, return tickets should result in no real trouble
[2009-03-29 21:34:04] <Seddon> The UK has open borders with regards to the whole of the EU
[2009-03-29 21:34:22] <Seddon> Visas are automatically granted upon entrance
[2009-03-29 21:34:25] <Seddon> entry*
[2009-03-29 21:35:51] <Seddon> The UK also has visa agreements with many countries and the UK has a generally multicultural population
[2009-03-29 21:36:29] <brassratgirl> ok, thanks
[2009-03-29 21:36:39] <masti> thnx
[2009-03-29 21:36:57] <brassratgirl> next is Lisa_Cuddy-pl
[2009-03-29 21:37:17] <Lisa_Cuddy-pl> thank you brassratgirl
[2009-03-29 21:38:37] <Lisa_Cuddy-pl> My question is: knowing that Oxford is a student city, do you know how accomodation will look like with many
student houses occupied by students? will participants be spread into many houses or you will try to keep everyone together?
[2009-03-29 21:39:15] <Lisa_Cuddy-pl> thank you
[2009-03-29 21:41:12] <Seddon> Given the Univeristy terms, most Univeristy accomodation will be empty of students
[2009-03-29 21:41:40] <Seddon> Attendees will be kept close to the city centre (dont forget Oxford is a small city)
[2009-03-29 21:42:09] <mpeel> it's summer vacation for the university at the time we're proposing to hold the conference.
[2009-03-29 21:43:06] <brassratgirl> ok, I think there is one more q
[2009-03-29 21:43:32] <cfp> we should also clarify that the accommodation is in "colleges" and the yha, not individual houses. thus clumps of around
100/200 attendees will be staying together with additional social spaces linked to that block of accommodation
[2009-03-29 21:43:51] <[Fontes]> thanks brassratgirl.
[2009-03-29 21:43:55] <[Fontes]> Q: Is there already formal approval from the General Meeting for this bid?
[2009-03-29 21:44:35] <cfp> of WMUK?
[2009-03-29 21:44:51] <[Fontes]> Yes.
[2009-03-29 21:44:53] <Seddon> I presume you mean the chapter AGM, if so the AGM is due to occur in april
[2009-03-29 21:45:09] <Seddon> however general members are present during the board meetings
[2009-03-29 21:45:46] <Seddon> The whole board and all those members present at the board meeting gave their support.
[2009-03-29 21:46:12] <Seddon> IRC logs of all official board and member discussions are available on the UK chapter website at:
[2009-03-29 21:47:00] <Seddon> http://uk.wikimedia.org/wiki/Meetings
[2009-03-29 21:47:13] <brassratgirl> ok, super
[2009-03-29 21:47:16] <brassratgirl> thank you all
[2009-03-29 21:47:24] <brassratgirl> I think that's the last of the oxford questions
[2009-03-29 21:47:37] <[Fontes]> yes thanks.
[2009-03-29 21:47:41] <brassratgirl> ok, if there are more questions for any of the bids, please post them on the talk page
[2009-03-29 21:47:46] <brassratgirl> of the appropriate bid
[2009-03-29 21:47:58] <delphine> thank you all :)
[2009-03-29 21:47:59] <brassratgirl> bid teams; please answer questions there
[2009-03-29 21:48:00] <brassratgirl> thank you all
[2009-03-29 21:48:04] <_sj_> I've left a couple additional questions for all bid teams
[2009-03-29 21:48:09] <brassratgirl> I am going to officially close this very long meeting
[2009-03-29 21:48:47] <_sj_> brassratgirl : thanks for moderating
[2009-03-29 21:48:48] <brassratgirl> if any bid wishes to have a seperate q&a page, please create it
[2009-03-29 21:48:50] <brassratgirl> :)
[2009-03-29 21:48:52] <brassratgirl> thanks!