WikiConference India 2016/Community and Team/IRC/December 27, 2015
Hashtag: #WCI2016
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Date and Time
December 6, 2015, 10:30 pm
How to connect ?
IRC Channel at ##wikiconferenceindiaconnect
Topic
Third Jury Discussion
IRC session log.
[16:00:57] <ravidreams> Hi Ashwin, Netha, Kalyan
[16:03:01] <AshLin> Hi, gals n guise ;)
[16:05:21] <Netha> Hello :-)
[16:05:23] <ravidreams> Hello, for a change, I would suggest getting started with the agenda at once to avoid the chat extending to late hours :)
[16:06:43] <AshLin> ok
[16:09:27] <Netha> Are we waiting for others?
[16:09:41] <ravidreams> No, let's proceed without waiting
[16:09:58] <ravidreams> I don't foresee any major decisions today. We can publish log and ask others to add comments in meta
[16:10:04] <ravidreams> exceptions should be made on case by case manner, and preferably on a temporary fashion.
[16:10:16] <ravidreams> err.. ignore my last line
[16:10:35] <ravidreams> Just adding two references based on which we can evaluate cities. We have to bring them to few bullet points (removing non-city based aspects like finance, conference program, sponsors etc.,) We also need to give description and guidelines on how to score from 1 to 5 and what 1 or 2 or 3 of 4 or 5 means (like nil, poor, average, satisfied, strongly satisfied) https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimania_2016_judging_cr
[16:13:19] <ViswaPrabha_> hi
[16:14:39] <ViswaPrabha_> Anyone here live?
[16:15:41] <ravidreams> HI
[16:15:51] <ravidreams> Yes Ashwin, Netha here already
[16:16:02] <ravidreams> We can get started with the discussion
[16:16:18] <ravidreams> Agenda for today is to finalize the scoring matrix for evaluating the bids
[16:16:20] <ViswaPrabha_> Good evening and Good new Wiki year to everyone. :)
[16:17:04] <AshLin> GE & HMY to you too jee :)
[16:20:18] <Abhay> Hello
[16:21:09] <kalyan> hi
[16:22:50] <ravidreams> Hello all
[16:22:54] <ravidreams> so we have everyone now :)
[16:22:56] <ViswaPrabha_> Are we all actually being very silent or there is some discussion I am not seeing here?
[16:23:04] <Abhay> Who else is on? I can't see the attendees.
[16:23:04] <ViswaPrabha_> Oh Ok.
[16:23:09] <ravidreams> Anirudh will not be able to join us on Sunday evenings
[16:23:38] <ravidreams> Everyone except anirudh are here
[16:23:44] <AshLin> I have neever used this tool in this context so Netha or any one else who has used this should lead
[16:23:45] <kalyan> can we start
[16:23:53] <ravidreams> check http://bots.wmflabs.org/~wm-bot/logs/%23wikiconferenceindia/20151227.txt if you are not sure about the connection :)
[16:23:57] <Abhay> Ok. Thanks
[16:26:42] <ViswaPrabha_> So let's jump directly to the topic?
[16:27:28] <Netha> This is the summary of local hosts responsibility for Wikimania :
[16:27:34] <Netha> The local host will be responsible for the following: Providing people to help serve and/or interface with the Scholarship and Program committees Providing volunteers to help with onsite logistics, registration, outreach, media/pr, web site content, network/connectivity infrastructure, coordinating volunteers, finding sponsors Finding support from local chapters, governments, universities, venues and NGOs. Looking for m
[16:28:07] <Netha> Locating vendors to provide required services (with the WMF conference coordinator) Planning, hosting and finding sponsorship as needed (e.g., for receptions). Assisting with extraordinary immigration and customs problems of participants
[16:28:46] <ViswaPrabha_> We can translate these parameters into an Inland Indian situation.
[16:28:57] <ViswaPrabha_> 1. Constraints:
[16:29:16] <ViswaPrabha_> a. Budget (Are we limited by budgets, if So, how much
[16:29:45] <ViswaPrabha_> b) What are the budget contribution shares / portfolios
[16:30:21] <ViswaPrabha_> b. Location , optimal travel and logistics cost and time for participants
[16:31:04] <ViswaPrabha_> c. Geographics (Weather etc)
[16:31:25] <ViswaPrabha_> d. Local strength (offline and online mobilisation )
[16:32:34] <ViswaPrabha_> e. previous experience of conducting large scale multi-cultural conferences (for the lead personnel)
[16:34:54] <ViswaPrabha_> ?
[16:35:18] <kalyan> may i suggest something?
[16:36:20] <ViswaPrabha_> sure.
[16:36:48] <kalyan> during bengali wikipedia conference we used a kind of scoring table to select the paper presentations
[16:37:00] <ViswaPrabha_> This must be a brain storming session so we can prepare and develop a fasttrack score sheet
[16:37:07] <ViswaPrabha_> Yes, we can.
[16:37:21] <kalyan> it was copied from marathi or tamil wikipedia conference. i don't remember.
[16:37:52] <ViswaPrabha_> Or probably from ml ;)
[16:38:28] <kalyan> yes. there should be a brainstorming session. we're probably have third such session today.
[16:39:18] <kalyan> while we continue to have the brainstorming session, i propose that we prepare the table based on whatever we discussed so far.
[16:39:47] <kalyan> once we have that page in meta, we can continue the brainstorming offline also, in the talk page.
[16:39:58] <ViswaPrabha_> Let us gather whatever points may help us reach a judicious selection of the right candidate.
[16:40:08] <kalyan> my idea was like this - https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Bengali_Wikipedia_10th_Anniversary_Celebration_Kolkata/Submissions_Review
[16:40:14] <kalyan> please have a look
[16:40:28] <kalyan> we have to make two alterations
[16:40:56] <kalyan> 1. reduce the score/grade from 7 to 5 or even 3 if possible
[16:41:01] <ViswaPrabha_> {{hand}}
[16:41:11] <kalyan> 2. have two tables for the two cities
[16:41:57] <kalyan> then list the criteria in the rows and let jury members rate them in their respective columns
[16:42:31] <kalyan> finally add up the sum of scores for each criterion to a new column in the right
[16:42:58] <AshLin> I can live with Kalyan's idea :)
[16:43:05] <kalyan> assuming no special weightage for each criterion, calculate the grand total
[16:43:37] <kalyan> the city with the better score wins
[16:44:55] <ViswaPrabha_> As for the selection process, we may do this off meta (and I heavily suggest Google spreadsheets) and then, when finalized, we can publish the details on meta.
[16:44:57] <kalyan> that was my idea
[16:45:35] <AshLin> on Google spreadsheet works with me
[16:45:44] <kalyan> fine with me
[16:45:51] <AshLin> Netha not rejoining?
[16:45:59] <kalyan> with only one concern
[16:46:46] <ViswaPrabha_> Advantages: 1. easy editing, 2. Ability to keep discussions within Jury until some milestones are reached.
[16:46:50] <kalyan> if we have to discuss something on any criteria, its not easy to do it in spreadsheet
[16:47:11] <kalyan> we'll have to arrange another irc session
[16:47:14] <ViswaPrabha_> It is easy. We can add comments or in-cell Notes.
[16:47:40] <ViswaPrabha_> The comments will act as good discussion threads and unlimited.
[16:47:43] <kalyan> counter comments etc are not easy to manage
[16:48:06] <AshLin> Share another Goodle Doc side by side
[16:48:14] <ViswaPrabha_> It is.
[16:49:13] <kalyan> i guess the idea is to keep the discussions within the jury itself till the final verdict
[16:49:14] <ViswaPrabha_> With single consolidated sheet books, we have managed much lengthier evolving processes.
[16:49:27] <Abhay> Agree @ kalyan. Also, there will be weightage attached to some parameters. Weather is probably not of the same import as, say connectivity :-)
[16:49:43] <ViswaPrabha_> Yes. That's right.
[16:50:01] <Abhay> We don't need to make it very complex but not too simplistic either.
[16:50:17] <kalyan> weightage makes it complex
[16:50:45] <kalyan> if we can break down criteria to a substantial numbers, it will even out
[16:50:55] <kalyan> weightage is not required
[16:51:09] <Abhay> I am afraid that will lead to "sandbaggong"
[16:51:20] <ViswaPrabha_> I think, what we first need to do right away, is to gather all points to consider. The methodology can be selected after this.
[16:51:22] <Abhay> Sandbagging*
[16:51:57] <Abhay> Yes. We need the criteria first. We can revisit weightage later.
[16:52:00] <ViswaPrabha_> So, consider whatever points coming to your mind, even if they are of trivial importance. We can shortlist them later.
[16:53:25] <ViswaPrabha_> For eg: (to add just one more): The relations with and efficacy of local and national media, of the candidate.
[16:54:15] <kalyan> can we create one more sheet in the spreadsheet shared by vishwaprabha sir earlier
[16:54:16] <kalyan> https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/14-HzU2VFVjcKXNe7ziJTeV9HqX8FDutzcDas7EgCwpY/edit?ts=5635d25d#gid=0
[16:54:26] <ViswaPrabha_> * team's connections with other open knowledge projects such as OSM, FSF etc.
[16:54:49] <ViswaPrabha_> welcome back Netha.
[16:55:16] <Netha> :-) Sorry for the pingout
[16:55:17] <ViswaPrabha_> Yes, Kalyan, that single spreadsheet can act as a consolidated place for this complete project management.
[16:55:25] <Abhay> You mentioned sponsorship above. Assuming it us a valid criteria, I would like to see a bit more than an assertion from the organizers.
[16:55:45] <ViswaPrabha_> Netha, shall I copy paste the discussion so far into your message box?
[16:55:56] <Abhay> If it is not a valid criteria (Ravi?) then that's a moot point.
[16:56:03] <AshLin> i think these are suitable as examples but not as real criteria
[16:56:17] <Netha> I will look through the IRC log
[16:56:21] <kalyan> netha - http://bots.wmflabs.org/~wm-bot/logs/%23wikiconferenceindia/20151227.txt
[16:56:38] <ViswaPrabha_> Good
[17:00:52] <ViswaPrabha_> If you may come to the spreadsheet, I have just added a new sheet there: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/14-HzU2VFVjcKXNe7ziJTeV9HqX8FDutzcDas7EgCwpY/edit?ts=5635d25d#gid=1389626941
[17:04:58] <ravidreams> Abhay: I will give my comments in the end from the viewpoint of organizing team
[17:06:05] <kalyan> yawn
[17:09:34] <ViswaPrabha_> ?
[17:12:05] <Abhay> Thanks Ravi. Sorry, temporarily disconnected. Back now.
[17:12:51] <ravidreams> As we are nearing 11 PM, I request the jury to agree on some major criteria based on which the cities can ask to update and finalize details
[17:12:57] <ravidreams> giving them a fair chance before the decision is taken
[17:13:35] <ravidreams> Both the bidders are getting restless and any unnecessary delay will reduce their motivation and time we have for planning the event
[17:13:51] <ravidreams> I hope we can provide the decision by December 31st
[17:14:01] <ravidreams> If necessary if we can make quick sessions in the coming days
[17:15:11] <ravidreams> While I appreciate the attention to details put forward by Viswa, I am also afraid we are complicating this too much
[17:15:20] <ravidreams> there are only two bids. both are young communities
[17:15:24] <Abhay> Ok. Do you want the major criteria from each of us here or in the spreadsheet?
[17:15:41] <ravidreams> we can very well plan the event and even reduce the scale if needed based on selected city
[17:16:11] <ravidreams> And, I am also afraid we are missing the forest for the trees
[17:16:50] <AshLin> I think that we can simplify this, but it may take some time to ponder
[17:17:03] <ravidreams> One of the major criteria I would suggest is to identify the maturity level or wikiness of the communities
[17:17:17] <ravidreams> This is not needed for Wikimania but warranted for WCI
[17:17:54] <ravidreams> So, a qualititative is as much required along with the objective approach
[17:18:08] <ravidreams> *a qualitative assessment or decision summary
[17:18:54] <ViswaPrabha_> All we need today is to bring in whatever points that may need to be considered. Once we set up this, we can reuse the same for ever.
[17:19:10] <ravidreams> Because at the end, the host city has to work together with the pan-Indian community
[17:19:19] <AshLin> Ravi, your point i well taken, the simple matrix should be accompanied by discussion of moot points too
[17:19:30] <ravidreams> Thanks, Ashwin
[17:19:58] <ravidreams> I refrain from other comments :)
[17:20:09] <ravidreams> So, please finalize some major criteria. That's all :)
[17:22:41] <AshLin> One moot point wjhich comes to mind is geographical diversity? if we have had WCI2011 in Mumbai, say Nashik sores legitimately over Chandigarh, then is that going to affect the West in applying for Wikimania?
[17:25:20] <ViswaPrabha_> I think Wikimania may have nothing much to do with a particular city that hosts WCI
[17:25:29] <Abhay> IMO, no. If it were Mumbai again, vs Chandigarh, it *may* be a factor.
[17:26:19] <ravidreams> Abhay: Technically you are correct, but with this approach none of the non-central Indian cities can ever win points regarding accessibility
[17:26:31] <ViswaPrabha_> Earnestly, we dream of first Wikimania in Kochi, somewhere in 2019/2020 :)
[17:27:14] <ravidreams> Wikimania rotates cities across the world for the very same reason
[17:27:52] <Abhay> Ravi, while it may be so, I am only considering past host role in present context. Accessibility has nothing to do with my comment above.
[17:28:11] <AshLin> So if Chandigarh's bid is acceptable do we choose that for giving the North a chance?
[17:28:24] <Abhay> Mumbai 《》Nashik :-)
[17:29:27] <Abhay> Now, if there is a criteria that says *zones* need to be rotated, then discountING Nashik makes sense.
[17:30:09] <Abhay> But doing so because Mumbai having hosted before doesn't.
[17:30:21] <ravidreams> Abhay, thanks for clarifying
[17:34:46] <ViswaPrabha_> I think, it is too early to discount or premium a city for zones criteria, after having only one conference by now.
[17:36:20] <AshLin> Its important to consider the thought though we need not put it into effect, that's all :)
[17:36:41] <ViswaPrabha_> agreed
[17:38:43] <AshLin> then I propose we sat good night :) and work on this matrix in next 48 hours
[17:38:57] <Abhay> Sounds.good.
[17:39:46] <ViswaPrabha_> You will also find additional sheets for each bids in that workbook
[17:40:32] <ravidreams> Ok then. Should we meet again on Wednesday night or Tuesday night?
[17:42:11] <kalyan> i am not available
[17:43:29] <kalyan> plz carry on
[17:43:37] <kalyan> without me
[17:44:26] <kalyan> i'll be watching, commenting and editing the sheet itself and follow the irc transcript
[17:44:56] <Abhay> Weeknights will be difficult for me but I will participate as much as I ca, including as Kalyan suggested aboc
[17:45:04] <Abhay> above*
[17:45:20] <AshLin> ok, good night
[17:45:26] <ravidreams> Ok bye
[17:45:37] <ravidreams> Thank you all for joining today :)
[17:53:09] <kalyan> good night