User talk:StevenJ81/Archives/2017

Cdlt

Hi,

Cdlt (or sometimes Cdt) is indeed cordialement (and sometimes I write A galon or A gln which is the same but in breton).

Cdlt, VIGNERON * ^discut. 07:58, 1 June 2017 (UTC)

Merci. (Mais je ne parle pas de bréton...) StevenJ81 (talk) 20:18, 2 June 2017 (UTC)

Dutch Wikinews

Sorry, I did not see your request to stop in time. I will await the outcome now. The Banner (talk) 12:06, 8 June 2017 (UTC)

Global site announcements, strategy style

I don't know where the list of local community pages is -- ask the people posting strategy updates? That's who has posted most recently to beta.wv's Babel. –SJ talk  04:40, 6 July 2017 (UTC)

@Sj: Found, and commented at RfD page. Those announcements are found at incubator:Incubator:Wikimedia news. StevenJ81 (talk) 13:59, 6 July 2017 (UTC)

Vandalism

Hi there, why was the entry here vandalism? ἕτοιμοί ἐσμεν. θαρρεῖν means we are ready, be of good courage (verify here and here). I am proceeding to revert the change. Gts-tg (talk) 23:47, 9 August 2017 (UTC)

My apologies. I'm not entirely sure why I marked it that way. The comment was by an IP, it resembled the work of an LTA IP we see around RFL from time to time, and it was unsigned. But you are right to revert me. (I'd encourage you to put an {{unsigned}} template there.)

FWIW, I really don't know how I feel about ancient languages having Wikipedias, and think that policy decision ought to belong to WMF. But if they plan to allow any ancient language projects at all, grc would be at the top of my list. StevenJ81 (talk) 01:20, 10 August 2017 (UTC)

Thanks + I've already placed an unsigned template to the comment. About the ancient language wikis, there is a change of policy in the committe and it has very recently already taken effect on Coptic. I'm keeping the champaigne cool for the grc. Gts-tg (talk) 07:57, 10 August 2017 (UTC)

I frankly hadn't read the LangCom discussion quite the same way myself, but MF-W is a member of LangCom, so who am I to argue with his interpretation? In any event, if you want to have Wp/grc approved, you need to have at least three active editors with ten edits each every single month. (They don't have to be the same three every month.) You had that through most of 2016, but not at all so far in 2017. So I'd encourage you to make that happen. StevenJ81 (talk) 12:55, 10 August 2017 (UTC)

Thanks, but I think that having something approved as being eligible is independent from having the wiki created (in which case there needs to be some movement within the wiki as you described). For the time being I am waiting for the eligibility step to occur, and after that it'll only be a matter of time as the editors will have something tangible to work against (it's been 12 years of heavy editing in periods, and the grc wiki should be one of the most complete/ready wikis in the incubator). Gts-tg (talk) 19:11, 10 August 2017 (UTC)

Missing admin e-mail

A note on a recent incident: I think that if you cannot find an active admin with registered e-mail, the right thing to do is to post "I need to reach an admin confidentially. Does any active admin have working e-mail?" or similar on a suitable page (such as the village pump on many smaller projects). If you want to raise a discussion, then do that separately, when the issue has been resolved, not to draw attention to the case as long as an outsider could take advantage of mistakenly published information.

(Clear text e-mail is of course not the right way to handle confidential information, but in the situation at hand I think e-mail would be private enough. You might even get a link to an admin's pgp keys by the suggested message.)

--LPfi (talk) 13:30, 4 September 2017 (UTC)

Notification of Wikimedia Belarus with regards to Proposal for closing projects/Closure of Taraskievica Wikipedia

Dear StevenJ81

why should a planned chapter be notified since it is only in discussion phase and has no bylaws that we know of.

Its status has not been updated much since May 29, 2010 at 22:12:34‎ (CEST).

I believe that planned chapters without establishment under local law should not be formally involved. We have somewhat more active Wikimedia Community User Group Belarus instead, even if the entire proceedings should be deferred because of the existing local be-tarask community. Even the title of the proposal is controversial, since it omits the word Belarusian (Belarusian (Taraškievica orthography)). Thanks for a reply. Yours sincerely! -- Nesmir Kudilovič (razgovor) 19:46, nedjelja, 24. rujna 2017. (SEV)

By all means. I simply want to make sure that the Belarus community, wherever it is, is aware of the proposal. (I hope you understood from the comment that I wrote that I don't think this is a very good idea. But I want to make sure that nobody can claim that people weren't notified.) StevenJ81 (talk) 19:19, 24 September 2017 (UTC)

Proposals for closing projects/Closure of Nahuatl Wikipedia 2

Hello; In this page, is over second closure for Nahuatl Wikipedia. Regards.--Marrovi (talk) 14:58, 7 October 2017 (UTC)

Saludos de Marrovi

Hiciste un buen trabajo como moderador, muchas gracias por participar en el tema del idioma náhuatl, aunque no lo creas esto es un gran avance para las lenguas nahuas de mi país. Era necesario que Akapochtli se expresara sin problema alguno para que las comunidades de hablantes maternos de lenguas nahuas sepan quien es realmente [redacted].

Pues Huiquipedia, sigue siendo un proyecto fracasado mientras no existan hablantes nativos en lenguas náhuatl, Tepoxteco es un persona muy ocupada con la Universidad, realmente no tiene mucho tiempo para editar en Huiquipedia aunque si le grada el proyecto (ha editado hasta ahora los mejores artículos de interés para hablantes maternos de náhuatl), él es traductor de español a lengua náhuatl, es maestro en lingüística y un gran activista de su lengua materna, ahora se encuentra en la radio de Guadalajara para realizar foros en lengua náhuatl con invitados de habla materna. Teotlalilli es actor, él es parte del teatro en lengua náhuatl de la Ciudad de México, también es traductor de español a la lengua náhuatl de la Huasteca Poblana; como puedes ver son personas muy ocupadas en la revitalización de su lengua materna, en un momento creyeron que Huiquipedia podía servir a su lengua, pero ahora tienen sus dudas respecto a lo sucedido con los comentarios de Akapochtli donde se le observa intolerante en todo lo que ha expuesto de forma abierta.

No caigas en la inocencia de que Akapochtli tiene muchos amigos nativos de lengua náhuatl, él se respaldó durante mucho tiempo en hablantes maternos como Tepoxteco ([redacted]) para sus estudios de maestría sobre lengua náhuatl, pero al ver que fueron timados por esta persona (con amplio desprecio hacia los pueblos indígenas), se han limitado a no cederle información y que rasque con sus uñas por malagradecido. Pues él es más dolido de fracasos, por lo que veo a través de sus comentarios, es Akapochtli, un tipo con fuertes problemas de aceptación a sí mismo, que por casualidad se vio involucrado en Huiquipedia y a la falta de hablantes nativos en el proyecto se le cede un cargo de administrador, lo cual lo defiende a capa y espada porque tal vez sea lo único en lo que es respetado con su doctorado en Bekerley, Califoria sobre lenguas nahuanas como ha hecho creer a mucha gente, ya que Victoriano me comenta que [redacted] (Akapochtli) no es doctor en lenguas nahuas por ninguna universidad y que es un engaño para quienes no lo conocen.

Entiendo que os parece una buena persona, pero al menos quienes lo conocen en persona no lo toleran por ser engreído respecto al idioma náhuatl sacando a relucir sus estudios y despreciando el conocimiento de los propios hablantes maternos. Yo realmente no tengo interés alguno en conocer personas como esta, basta con mirar su comportamiento, sus formas de ataque y de desprestigio, sus actos de desleales hacia los pueblos indígenas y su falta de humildad. Y si tiene una porra de hispanohablantes es para llevarme la contraria, más no porque quieran hacer un trabajo eficiente con las lenguas indígenas, a veces creo que lo respaldan solo para no contradecir lo que han argumentado respecto a mi persona. Steven, tú mejor que yo sabes que es mentira que haya cometido sabotaje en Huiquipedia, proponer a Tepoxteco y Teotlalilli (que si son verdaderos hablantes nativos), no es un sabotaje, es justicia social sobre una lengua que les pertenece. Si Akapochtli creé que es su proyecto personal (Huiquipedia), pues adelante, eso no resuelve los problemas a los que enfrenta la lengua náhuatl respecto al avance del español entre las comunidades nativas.

Sobre tu intensión de iniciar un foro sobre este tema, creo que es una buena idea, pero que sea abordado por personas hispanohablantes completamente desvinculados del idioma náhuatl no creo que traiga muchos frutos; tal vez lo mejor es visitar las comunidades indígenas donde la lengua náhuatl es de uso cotidiano, reclutar jóvenes con estudios de informática o estudios de nivel superior educativo y tratar de convencerlos que Wikipedia es un gran proyecto para ellos y para sus comunidades, apoyar a las escuelas con pc, laptops o herramientas multimedia que puedan usar en las escuelas de nivel superior de las comunidades indígenas. Forear con hispanohablantes es un trabajo muy desgastante, realmente las wikipedias en lenguas indígenas son un trampolín para ellos y no un proyecto conjunto de utilidad para verdaderos hablantes de las lenguas indígenas.--Marrovi (talk) 04:23, 8 November 2017 (UTC)

Pues seguiré trabajando en pro de las lenguas indígenas de mi país o de América, no creo que haya fracasado, sino todo lo contrario, creo que he dado importantes pasos para la promoción de las lenguas americanas visto de ópticas distintas a la de los mestizos americanos; aunque les duela algunos, nadie ha trabajado tanto en este tema como yo en Wikipedia. Trabajar por las lenguas indígenas no es ir en mi contra y hacer comentarios para mostrar el apoyo a Akapochtli (como actualmente sucede), trabajar por las lenguas indígenas es ver estrategias de solución para que los hablantes maternos se vean atraídos por la Wikipedia y vean en esta herramienta un apoyo para sus comunidades, más no para crecer el ego de los mestizos e hispanohablantes, que se desgastan en pelar y competir por quien tiene la razón o quien sabe más náhuatl o más inglés (o en el peor de los casos, que ven les deje un dinerito este tipo de wikipedias).--Marrovi (talk) 04:43, 8 November 2017 (UTC)

Otro punto; según Akapochtli, trata de convencerte que él y Cuaitl pueden asumir responsabilidad de la lengua náhuatl sabiendo que ambos no son hablantes maternos; en su desesperación de no perder privilegios te ha inventado que Huiquipedia está bien con solo ellos dos como editores. Pues bien, Cuaitl es una gran persona muy entusiasta por normar la lengua náhuatl de forma similar a la lengua alemana y español, Cuaitl es abogado y vive en España; él conoce el náhuatl clásico y se ha casado con esa lengua muerta porque creé que es el náhuatl puro y las lenguas nahuas modernas son corrupción y deformación del náhuatl puro. El problema de pensar que el náhuatl es alemán es confundir dos lenguas de diferentes familias lingüistícas, de entrada el náhuatl o las lenguas nahuas no provienen de un origen indo-europeo, por ende la construcción de los párrafos y la sintaxis del náhuatl no es idéntica ni similar a la del idioma alemán ni mucho menos a la del idioma castellano que lengua romance.

La lengua náhuatl tiene sus propias normas de origen, hay lenguas como el shoshón, el hopi, el od'aham, el mayo, el rarámuri o el huichol que si tienen una semejanza con el náhuatl tanto en estructura como en palabras y eso debe a que son de la familia yuto-azteca, lo cual contradice a la propuesta de Cuaitl de alemanizar o castellaniar al idioma náhuatl; hay artículos de Cuaitl como este nah:Gustavo Adolfo Becquer, artículos que si tienen relación con el modo de pensar de Cuaitl, pero que están fuera de contexto de pensamiento indígena nahua, además tiene una estructura de redacción que solo entiende Cuaitl y que un hablante nativo no logra entender, no es malo que haya artículos como este, pero no le dice nada a los hablantes nativos, lo cual hace de Huiquipedia un espacio para aficionados al náhuatl sin ser un espacio para hablantes maternos a las lenguas nahuas vivas.--Marrovi (talk) 03:05, 9 November 2017 (UTC)

Un gran conflicto con el que se topan mis adversarios es que cuando tratan de inmiscuirse en el tema de las lenguas indígenas de México, allí está mi sombra y mi trabajo con muchos años de adelanto respecto a sus ediciones, no les es posible desaparecer mi trabajo, lo cual les llena de celo o envidia, ni siquiera con sus bloqueos han podido contra mi, lo cual les molesta el topar con editores que no son ordinarios, ni fácil de burlar o de desaparecer, ya que ignoran que todos se mueven en estos círculos de forma diferente. Ya pudiste comprobar que no soy la fea persona que Akapochtli trata de dibujar y desprestigiar, es verdad que tengo muchos errores, pero también tengo muchas virtudes que les resulta envidiables, por ende, sus modos de proceder siempre es buscar el desprestigio y señalar que se violan reglas, después de que estos se vuelven mañosos y aprenden a manipular los principios cuando asumen cargos, asumiendo que son mucho más expertos que yo, cuando en realidad son simples aprendices del mismo camino por el cual voy andando. Estamos en contacto y ya estaré editando en tu foreo en español sobre la lengua náhuatl. Saludos amigo. --Marrovi (talk) 03:19, 9 November 2017 (UTC)

Steven, tú sabes que conozco tu idioma inglés y lo entiendo, pero te pido una disculpa por no editar en inglés, tú sabes que no me gusta ser lambiscón y la hipocresía no es parte de mis valores, has aprendido a conocerme y agradezco mucho tu amistad, tú sabes que me gusta ser directo y al grano como todo caballero, no tenemos las mis creencias, pero lo que si nos une es la misma sangre.--Marrovi (talk) 03:45, 9 November 2017 (UTC)

Personal attacks
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.
@Marrovi: Sigues hablando mal de mí, las calumnias y las difamaciones son castigadas en Meta. Los Stewards y los Sysops te tienen una sorpresita por tu terquedad y falta de razonamiento. Ahí te las verás con ellos, yo no pienso participar en eso. Puedes seguir con tu "catarsis" de ardido y lambiscón aquí. --Akapochtli (talk) 17:59, 10 November 2017 (UTC) ¡Ah! Eso de andar borrando los comentarios de otros usuarios en las Talkpage también se sanciona, por favor deja de borrarlos y ocultar información. --Akapochtli (talk) 18:06, 10 November 2017 (UTC) ¿[redacted] es como intentas converserme que eres una buena persona?--Marrovi (talk) 18:29, 10 November 2017 (UTC)

OK, guys, stop:

• Akapochtlli, I responded to Marrovi privately by email. Know that I do not take his comments at face value. Others besides Marrovi have expressed concerns to LangCom about language issues on Nahuatl Wikipedia. There will be an RfC on the subject shortly. In the meantime, do not start arguing about that here. I notify in advance: I will delete that; it doesn't belong on my personal talk page.
• Marrovi, except on your own talk page, do not remove others' comments from a talk page. I made it pretty clear in my email to you what you need to do in order to be heard on the subject. Part of that includes not using people's real names on-wiki. Do it again and I will block you with no further warning. StevenJ81 (talk) 18:34, 10 November 2017 (UTC)
  • This discussion, on my talk page, is over. If anything is added I will delete. StevenJ81 (talk) 18:38, 10 November 2017 (UTC)

---

The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. Comments on this talk page on substantially the same subject within the next month will be deleted without notice.

Hi Steven

Hi Steven; I redirected the talks in my Talk page, I would you like to read my talk page, I'm desagree about ofensive notes in my space. Thank you very much. Ya no soporto las bulas como la que allí me colocan con cierto sentido sexual.--Marrovi (talk) 20:43, 10 November 2017 (UTC)--Marrovi (talk) 20:43, 10 November 2017 (UTC)

Please delete the offensive comments on my talk page, I'm desperate with this type of sexual attacks.--Marrovi (talk) 20:52, 10 November 2017 (UTC)

@Marrovi: Done You can always delete things like that from your talk page, notwithstanding what was said in the previous discussion. (The only things you are not allowed to delete from your talk page are things like formal disciplinary notices.) If it happens again, delete the offensive material, then come to me (or better yet, go to WM:RFH) and have a sysop hide the revision. StevenJ81 (talk) 20:45, 12 November 2017 (UTC)

Closure proposal under LangCom review

Hello (again?). I think you must have copied-and-pasted some parameters for Proposals for closing projects/Closure of Norwegian Wikinews 3 as outcome to "keep" outcome to "delete/redirect" in the proposals for closing projects. Did you mean "close"? May you or I please correct it? --George Ho (talk) 07:15, 22 November 2017 (UTC)

Fixed. ("Keep" is correct in both places.) Sorry for the confusion. StevenJ81 (talk) 08:14, 22 November 2017 (UTC)

No worries, though I commented on the proposed outcome there. Also, what can you do about deletion proposals of Moldovan Wikipedia 2, Moldovan Wiktionary, and Alemannisch Wiktionary, Wikibooks and Wikiquote? The closure proposal list page says that the LangCom's proposed outcomes are "delete/redirect". However, the outcome statuses haven't been updated yet. Did the LangCom mean "delete/redirect" as proposed outcome under review? --George Ho (talk) 09:47, 22 November 2017 (UTC)

Soft closure

Hi. I've been wondering how to ask this; it's to do with the recommendation regarding Norwegian Wikinews. It seems that the project is technically not to be closed, but the committee is recommending "soft closure". If I'm understanding this correctly, what is being recommended is "soft closure" akin to that of Swedish Wikinews, which is papered over with warn-off messages (go away, you're not welcome here); afaics, Swedish Wikinews has been "softly" closed more irrevocably than any project that receives a "hard" closure, effectively salting the earth so that in practice there is no chance of resurrecting it. I really don't wish to be difficult, nor to give offence to anyone, but I do want to understand how things stand. Does the committee intend to guarantee Norwegian Wikinews is forever beyond recovery? Or, if (perchance) the committee does not intend "soft closure" to permanently nix the project, by what means do they believe it would be possible to rescue a project once such a thing has been done to it? (For perspective, I had said during the discussion I was willing to help out with infrastructural difficulties on that project, but found it morale-destroying to have the threat of closure hanging over the thing, so that I could not possibly divert part of my volunteer wiki efforts to that project while the proposal-for-closing was active; but a "soft closure" would also guarantee that I could never do anything for the project.) --Pi zero (talk) 00:38, 29 November 2017 (UTC)

Copying to Proposals for closing projects/Closure of Norwegian Wikinews 3 (and responding there). StevenJ81 (talk) 23:51, 29 November 2017 (UTC)

Vote

Do users unregustered with IP adress can vote? --Ookuninusi (talk) 21:40, 20 December 2017 (UTC)

Requests for new languages are not votes, they are discussions. Language committee makes the final decision, and it does not count comments. So users with IP addresses are allowed to comment. StevenJ81 (talk) 20:46, 20 December 2017 (UTC)

What was rude in my comment? That guy writes nothing more than ordinary fairy tales. Serbian language equally use two alphabets and it's written on two dialects (ekavian and iekavian). Gorski Vijenac, as one of the biggest and most important literary work on South Slavs literature of XVIII century is written on iekavian dialect and there is no single version on ekavian dialect (as he wrote). If someone wrote nonsense that you must react. As you see I am not for or oppose Montenegrin language on Wikipedia, Language committee will make a decision, but if that new project start with false arguments, for sure it will certainly not be developed on a healthy basis. BTW sorry for my English --НиколаБ (talk) 20:56, 21 December 2017 (UTC)

@НиколаБ: I thought HAHA What a joke was kind of rude—the other contributor clearly did not see it as a joke. Still, I'm not going to remove your comment a third time, and as long as nothing is more problematic than that, I'm going to keep my hands off. StevenJ81 (talk) 21:41, 21 December 2017 (UTC)

Oh god. What you doing.. If you want to introduce cgwiki, do it cleanly, no dirty. Zoranzoki21 (talk) 05:21, 22 December 2017 (UTC)