Talk:Wikimedia Chapters Association/Secretary-General/Candidacy sebmol

Comments

I am going to add an email I sent to a private list about a chapter, per their request. Before that, I want to re-iterate a couple of points-

• a) You were on contract with WMF per an earlier reply, please add yourself on Wikimedia_Foundation_contractors or mention the length of contract. Since this was a paid contractual employment, it bear mentioning on your professional background. This concerns employment within Wikimedia, and you are indeed applying for a Wikimedia organization position, so clarification about this is more needed than other sort of engagements.

• b) This is a strong handed approach being taken here, against the wishes of the steering committee and several others. All of whom are surprised to see this announcement 4 days before the meeting. So far this puts you as the only candidate without there being a call for a candidate.

Regards. Theo10011 (talk) 04:30, 10 July 2012 (UTC)

Email

Hi

I said I will bring up the issue I have on this list after Sebastian's announcement, so I am following up here.

First, I would like to ask since I am not aware of the current or recent board position changes, if Sebastian, or someone from WMDE is on this list? I don't like talking behind people's back and there has been enough one on one discussions about this.

I don't exactly belong to any chapter, or any affiliate group, so I came into this world of chapters not too long ago, on my own. I have to comment on the strong handed approach a bit here that I have noticed. There are several examples- For one, WMDE hired someone (against my and other's advice) before chapters conference to assist in registration of WCA. I believed at the time, as I do now, that money should have gone in the common pool of resources. There was a finance meeting, where WCA was discussed without much being reported, then there was the chapters conference, and possibly other informal discussions - there are very few who have had constant presence at all these meetings and discussions.

To speak candidly, I can't shake the feeling that there is no clear demarcation here between who is hiring who. It feels a bit like Sebastian is hiring himself, that in itself is not a problem, but he wrote majority of the charter that I still have a hard time following, decided the existence of the SG, the structure, discussed rather actively about where the registration should be or if it should be separate from the actual office premises, now he's declaring himself as the only candidate without there being a call for candidate, and disagreeing with the committee that should in essence be hiring him. Is the only thing expected here for everyone, is to be quiet and agree? I like discussions, debates, but so far, my only consistent sparring partner has been Sebastian. I have nothing against Sebastian, he's actually quite bright and a good candidate.

I have nothing against any chapter either, but from my own impression, given the amount of roles and influence here, someone needs to point out how one chapter might be over-reaching. Just off the top of my head, Sebastian was/is on ChapCom that approves chapters, there is his own chapter board, which generates more revenue than all or at least, most of the other chapters combined. A chapter which is taking more of an active role now with movement wide issues, separate from WMF. Then, there is their position on the board of WMF, I believe Alice replaced Arne, both of whom were former WMDE board members prior to joining the WMF board. There are probably several other things, that chapter member reading this know that I don't.

All this isn't necessarily bad, I suppose there are elders within every community, older groups. I do think however, they are in a different place than majority of the chapters, and their goals and interest might not be as aligned, not to mention their own influence.

Regards Theo

There is one thing that might not have made it through the language barrier of minutes and such, and that is that Sebastian very clearly stated at the last General Assembly that he will not be seeking reelection to any kind of position in the board of Wikimedia Deutschland in the next election. Just bringing that up here to point out that the demarcation between who is hiring who is actually quite clear. That he helped craft the WCA and potentially his position is, in my opinion, not a bad thing. Discussions in Berlin, for example, were on some points quite clearly not going in the direction he had been advocating, and decisions were taken that clearly turned down some of his proposals, which comforts me in thinking that the Chapters know what is best for them and won't let through what they think are not beneficial. This goes for this position. Whether the chapters decide to discuss it or not to tomorrow is their call. I personally am glad that his candidacy sparked interest again for the whole thing, as I was feeling a bit demotivated by the lack of substantial conversations outside of "Our representant is or is not going to be here on the 11th".

As to your more general remark about WMDE's (indue?) influence, there are many things I don't exactly understand (the fine tuning of your understatements is something that probably gets a bit lost on a French native ;)), but here is my general view on this.

• I have to point out that I am not sure how Wikimedia Deutschland, who in the end has one voice out of (hopefully very) many in the Council would be considered to be hiring the SG at all. My understanding and my wish for the WCA, as I have stated many times, is that the Chapters finally have a place where it is actually irrelevant how big and small they might be, and where they all have the same voice to keep things moving. My take is, the Council has the power, and Sebastian can agree or disagree all he wants with the committee's/Council's opinion, in the end he, as a person, has no vote on it. I'll go so far as to say that I expect him to withdraw from the internal discussions of Wikimedia Deutschland's board on this particular aspect of the WCA.
• On the over-reaching part. Let me first try and rephrase what I understand from your words: basically you seem to think that WMDE's influence is extremely (too?) important in many aspects of the Wikimedia movement, and that that influence might not be aligned with the general interests/goals of chapters. (Here I really had to interpret, as it is not clear *whose* interest you're speaking of, please correct me if I've gotten this wrong.)
  • On the over-reaching influence bit, I hear you. If that is a more general feeling/observation of chapters, then I would like to hear this more often, and possibly from more people, so that we can work to correct course and change that impression. Having been involved in many different aspects of the chapter "cycle", I have been on the other side of the fence. As a matter of fact, it is one of the reasons why I joined Wikimedia Deutschland in the first place, because I believed that this "big" chapter needed some "outside" input, and my experience within WMFR or the Foundation would bring something to the table. I don't want to make this about myself though and what I want to say here is that this is a question we've raised internally on many occasions, and that our position of being "the biggest", "the richest" or whatever is not always an easy position to be in and is an even harder position to communicate about. So yes, if there is concrete concern that Wikimedia Deutschland is exerting influence where it should not, please do share those concerns so that we can work efficiently on making sure that we explain ourselves better, as I can assure you that we do have the general interest of the chapters at heart.
  • on particular people, "elder" as you call them, having influence, and many being part of Wikimedia Deutschland (or having been part of it), well, all I can say is that Wikimedia Deutschland has been around longer than any other chapter, and that I guess people who have been involved in the association for a long time do care about Wikimedia as a whole, and chapters in particular, and have chosen to involve themselves on the longer term. As for Arne or Alice being on the board, this is again not a decision taken by WMDE single handedly, but by all chapters who chose to participate. Arne pointed out once that having a WMF board member coming from Wikimedia Deutschland was actually an asset to any conversation trying to defend the general interests of the chapters, *because* Wikimedia Deutschland is one of the "biggest" and most successful chapters and as such leverages that chapters can and will be successful.
  • On "being in a different place than the majority of the chapters". My experience with chapters is that every chapter is in a different place than the majority of the chapters. Of course, Wikimedia Deutschland stands out because of the old same old "office, blablabla, staff, blablabla, millions, blablabla". Which is infortunate because it singles WMDE out. Sometimes for the best, sometimes for the worst. But in the end, our strength is in the diversity. No chapter will be "yet another Wikimedia Deutchland" and actually, no chapter should be. I just hope that with time we all learn to take advantage of each other uniqueness and also strengthen communication on the basis of our commonality. That is what I hope the Chapters Association, for example, will be doing.
  • On "goal and interest not aligned", I simply strongly believe that you are mistaken. If WMDE's goals and interests were not aligned with those of the other chapters, we would just not be caring about the WCA, or fighting alongside other chapters so that all chapters can fundraise, to name a few. notafish }<';> 09:01, 10 July 2012 (UTC)

First, I wrote that email for the rest of the chapters, it really wasn't directed at anyone in particular. I still don't see a lot of substantive arguments, and I stand by everything. I am not sure if Sebmol's reason for seeking reelection has anything to do with WCA or not, regardless, it is not integral to what I stated before. My point about who is hiring who, stands all the same, he declared himself as the only candidate without the committee putting out a call for one, then he is disagreeing and arguing with the committee that is drafting the JD, considering salaries, and in essence, hiring/picking the SG. So, he declared himself as the only candidate for a position, then disagrees when others say there has been no call for candidates, I'm not sure what else to call that. From my perspective, he is appointing himself, and just waiting for a confirmation. Now ,I wasn't present for the Berlin meeting so I have no idea what happened there. Your statements are also getting a bit conflicted here, you stated you were tired of private discussions on the chapters list, and you are now claiming you were getting demotivated from the lack of substantive discussion there. Anyway, I believe there is undue influence and I would be happy to expand on anything you like-

• I would point you to your statements above how he crafted the WCA, and that was my point also. I took a back seat during the charter discussions, because I thought things should fall in their place naturally. In the same time, I noticed a lot of things, some minor, some large, but Sebastian and Ziko were really active in crafting, to some degree they dominated the conversation, left a majority of the chapters out of the discussions. I didn't get a sense they had a voice. Then there were the physical meetings, and hiring of someone for WCA without consulting or asking, in fact, even ignoring advice from several members to do so.
• My point was, one chapters influence is much higher than others, most or even all. It is not important, but inequitable or unbalanced when it comes to other chapters, even larger ones. Yes, the interest of a chapter raising a few million dollar, who have had an elected representative on the larger board for the last 5 years and will continue to have so, are not aligned with a chapter who never fund-raised, and survives on nothing but volunteer sweat and love, and maybe a single annual grant.
• Over-reaching influence is my observation, it wasn't directed at anyone particularly. If chapters agree, they can eventually speak up. My criticism wasn't against WMDE in particular, besides minor things here and there, I think WMDE has behaved very well and upheld a high standard for what a large chapter should behave like. But at the same time, someone has to point at the current predicament, you and sebastian have both served on ChapCom, which approves a chapter, both have worked for WMF, and have had a fellow board member on the WMF board for the last of the 5 years. if Sebastian appoints himself as the SG, he would be the de-facto authority covering existing chapter affairs, and between present and past WMDE members, the entire life time and every aspect of a chapter's existence would be covered.
• That might very well be so, but please allow me to have my opinion about what I saw coming from the board last year, how much of an asset WMDE's presence turned out to be. If your argument is correct, then only the "biggest" chapters are entitled to a seat.
  • Just on that one point. For what it's worth, neither Arne, nor Alice, nor Patricio today are "presence of a chapter" on the board. Please stop referring to Board members as representing the organisation they had to do with in their past (or present), or we'll have to say that Kennisnet, JP morgan, IBM, Creative Commons etc. are today sitting on the board, which makes no sense whatsoever. Mine was not an "argument", but an insight into how things may work. It so happens that in a world where often little consideration is given to the chapters as a whole, having in one's resume the perspective of someone having accompanied a chapter that has all the right checkmarks in the green actually helps, some. Because it's just easier to say "not all chapters are terrible at fundraising"(for example) without having to shy because the chapter you were once involved with didn't report a week before. And no, I am not advocating for people coming from bigger chapters to take the seats. Actually, I would really like way more and other chapter people to be interested in the job. Not Aglo-saxon, not European. I think I've said as much in many places. As for what came from the board last year, indirectly blaming WMDE for not being an asset is really twisting the reality of things. WMDE did all it could to influence that decision. But unfortunately, at no time were we actually "sitting on the board". notafish }<';> 13:51, 10 July 2012 (UTC)
    • I don't know what you are talking about. I didn't suggest they were representatives of their individual organizations and chapters, but of chapters as a whole, their position prior to taking up their own board position was what I referred to. Chapters elect their representative - "representative", they are their electorate, no matter what a resolution says. You seem to be suggesting that their position is more ceremonial, to which I would say, we have a fundamental disagreement over what a board member can accomplish. Maybe you can see the chain of logic so far that collapses on itself, you quote arne first, saying how WMDE members are an asset on the board because that's the largest chapter. But when I point to the track-record last year, the single time when this was needed more than ever, you say I'm twisting the reality of things and they weren't "sitting on the board". I was present during those discussions, forget influencing, I didn't even see enough open communication from the chapter elected representatives, it was the community elected ones and a couple of appointed ones I identified with more. I would also point out, how you say you would promote non anglo-saxon European candidates, and people coming from smaller chapters, yet, your chapter consistently nominated just that a few months ago, an Anglo-saxon candidate from the your chapter's board, to replace another Anglo-saxon candidate from the same chapter who served for 4 years. I don't know who to blame for this disconnect. Lastly, they were indeed "sitting on the board", you have been led to believe that it is an inept, ceremonial position with no power, I disagree. Theo10011 (talk) 14:37, 10 July 2012 (UTC)
• I agree.
• Again, from what I saw yesterday, it wasn't fighting alongside anybody but fighting against the committee. My entire point, to re-iterate was, WMDE doesn't require the same things. I can again, enumerate my points and expand in detail if you like. A chapter that never raised a single dollar and survives on just goodwill, will never be in the same position as WMDE. That is absolutely fine, it is nothing to argue against, but at some point you have to give others their room, at least for things to run their course. Regards. Theo10011 (talk) 11:50, 10 July 2012 (UTC)

The recruitment process

I'm completely confused by your statement of candidacy, Sebastian. My understanding is the Secretary-General position is a *job* -- a paid position -- not an elected post. As such, there should be a proper recruitment process to appoint someone to the position, with a call for applications, rather than individuals putting themselves forward in an ad-hoc manner. It would be rather unethical for the WCA to appoint someone without going through proper recruitment processes... Mike Peel (talk) 12:55, 10 July 2012 (UTC)

Elected and paid positions are not mutually exclusive, many elected politicians receive salaries. What I can see indicates that the WCA contemplated using a recruiting process rather than an election process, but that seems to be at most a draft and it's not clear whether that was a considered decision or just a default position. I guess that just reinforces that things don't seem to have moved forward as quickly as hoped. --Michael Snow (talk) 17:38, 10 July 2012 (UTC)