Talk:Wikimedia CEE Spring 2021/Article Lists

PROPOSAL No.1 anti-racist topics and people of color who live(d) in CEE

Hi Folx - I would be planing activities to develop new types of lists that respond to contemporary discussions in Wikimedia movement and would like to hear your opinion and if you like the idea also commitment to join me and include it in your version of CEE Spring 2021.

PROPOSAL No.1 prominent anti-racist topics and people of color who live/lived in CEE should reflect and act on the increased interest in Wikimedia movement to compensate for lack of visibility of people of color. It is especially related to #BlackLivesMatter but also to increase of nationalism, racism and xenophobia in the CEE region in recent years.

My tentative plan is to do one online short webinar and worksession to develop basic phrasing, principles, list content and make it relevant to as many countries as possible. After the Spring 2021 is over I would like to do a follow-up with some reflection evaluation.

What do you think? Would you include such int. list in listings of your countries?

Zblace (talk) 14:10, 31 January 2021 (UTC)

I wonder what people of colour mean in the CEE context. Unlike the US where there is a history of slavery and racial segregation, most of the CEE countries have passed the majority of the 20th century under some form of Communist governments which did not have any similar policies. As CEE countries had no colonial empires nor involved in slave trade, there is next to no historical black population as well. Pretty much the only two historically black communities in the CEE are Afro-Turks and Abkhazians of African descent. Some people who are technically of colour do not suffer from major discrimination (e.g. Ukraine had a prime minister of Asian descent, w:Yuriy Yekhanurov, and his ethnicity was not a major issue), and on the other side, some people who are technically white suffer from strong institutional racism (particularly Roma people). Thus I don't think that US concepts of 'people of colour' or BLM apply the same way in the CEE, simply because our history and demography are different — NickK (talk) 18:57, 8 February 2021 (UTC)

Thank you for fast and quality comment! I feel very similar and would agree with most of what you said fully. My intention was not to try to copy 1:1 across contexts, but see how we can relate to this and where/when it makes sense. If it is not just people - than we can include phenomena and documents/events. For example...

#1 many socialist countries had counter-colonial relations with African and Asian countries (as they supported newly formed post-colonial states) especially around infrastructure this should be knowledge contribution for contemporary relations!

#2 many individuals from these countries were on scholarships (at least I remember a number of non-white medical students and later doctors in SFR Yugoslavia, at least from countries Non-Aligned Movement) - these phenomena should be noted.

#3 historically our relations to concept of slavery/human-trade were also at times very progressive (Dubrovnik Republic was one of first to forbid it) - we will for sure work on this article

...that is not to say that there is no racism present in CEE (periodic racists attacks and stereotyping come up in Croatia) and we can not relate to this in any way, while Xenophobia for sure exists much more prominently and nationalisms are blooming in neo-liberal post-socialist countries. Also - even if we just translate institutional racism you mentioned in all Wikipedias that would be good progress. Now there are very very few translations https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q848745 Best --Zblace (talk) 08:41, 9 February 2021 (UTC)

Well, this would be also complex as institutional racism is not really the same concept in the CEE either. Unlike the US or former colonial empires like the UK or France, people of colour represent a small minority, and they likely tend to be more educated than the average (notably because of #2). Thus there is no real problem of, say, access to education for people of colour (while this is a problem in the US). Instead, there is a problem with equal opportunities for rural areas, for some national minorities etc. In Ukraine, for instance, there is a significant issue around internally displaced persons that is specific to Ukraine. We really should focus on CEE history and CEE cases, and use other campaigns (such as WikiForHumanRights) for other concepts — NickK (talk) 15:37, 9 February 2021 (UTC)

Lets do that also, rather than make the choice in advance for all. I am sure Central Europe has more immigrants both traditionally and now especially with refugees, that there will be more content proposals in the list to add. Zblace (talk) 18:49, 9 February 2021 (UTC)

I would definitely say that there is racism and mistreatment of minorities. My concern would be, for SK at least, that we would not find enough notable people who are part of the minorities. But perhaps I am wrong.--Jetam2 (talk) 17:25, 9 February 2021 (UTC)

Jetam2 I would agree, but we do not have to build this as extensive list of people only (with change the name of proposal). Even 5-6 meaningful items in the whole CEE would be great to have a step up in this direction. Zblace (talk) 18:49, 9 February 2021 (UTC)

Ah, only a few people per CEE? Hmm. Okay. Maybe at least one per country?--Jetam2 (talk) 18:53, 9 February 2021 (UTC)

Jetam2 maybe I was not clear over the complex issues and setup (for sure not 100% sure of how to frame it as an open experiment), but I would love if every list would have at least one person and would be content to have half of shared international list populated with people (other half could be organizations, events, terms)...who ever joins sessions would be welcome to suggest more and better, but we also have to provide well sourced Wikipedia pages to translate (not just stubs). Zblace (talk) 09:05, 11 February 2021 (UTC)

Sure. It would be a bit minimalist but can work. Your other proposal seems a bit more viable, tbh.--Jetam2 (talk) 09:13, 11 February 2021 (UTC)

Yes, but this is a proposal of starting a process (without good overview what could be scale) so do not quote me on what is and how going to happen just yet. If there is traction and commitment it can be significantly different. I just became aware (again) of potential #Wiki4HumanRights labor and anti-racism issues via WikiProject_Organized_Labour could be a place to find articles on global tech labor solidarity with workers in African mines. I guess more info will be up soon after this Online_edit-a-thon_Tech_February_2021! Zblace (talk) 16:17, 11 February 2021 (UTC)

This is a late remark, but may be helpful in the future. Racism does not mean people have to be of different skin colours, and CEE region is probably the best proof of it. Holocaust hit most severely the CEE region, executions of armenians in WWI etc. belong also here. In a way it is very important topic, for it is important to remember black lives do not matter; all lives do matter. But as the goal of CEE springs is to increase cooperation and mutual understanding, such subjects can be a dangerous stuff that can inflame racism instead of stamping it out. - Melilac (talk) 07:40, 1 May 2021 (UTC)

Thank you for bringing this up! I fully agree. Race is construction over percived and assumed differences (very few are actually related to biological variations)...hence it is also super complex issue that needs to be adressed with care and at least some strategic direction. If you have specific idea that can be tested now in last weeks please write in and ping me directly, but also condiser to join for evaluation session we plan in June. Best Z --Zblace (talk) 07:21, 13 May 2021 (UTC)

PROPOSAL No.2 CEE SPRING against Homophobia, Transphobia and Mysogyny

PROPOSAL No.2 CEE SPRING against Homophobia, Transphobia and Mysogyny should reflect and act on the UCoC work and providing more inclusive and diverse movement beyond addressing gender gap. It is also related to lack of visibility of civil sector and activists in this field, especially those fighting for Human Rights (we will have overlap with #Wiki4HumanRights and IDAHOT), but also dominant traditionalism, patriarchal cultures and also prevailing conservatism and historic-ism that encyclopedias in general default to.

Like above: My tentative plan is to do one online short webinar and worksession to develop basic phrasing, principles, list content and make it relevant to as many countries as possible. After the Spring 2021 is over I would like to do a follow-up with some reflection evaluation.

What do you think? Would you include such int. list in listings of your countries?

Zblace (talk) 15:14, 8 February 2021 (UTC)

Thank you for this proposal. It does not sound too bad. Last time you had a similar proposal, though, I did not participate because the expected participation (webinars and follow-up and reflections) was more than I was able to do. Personally, I am happy to create content but do not want to be obliged to attend calls and follow up. Good luck.--Jetam2 (talk) 17:50, 9 February 2021 (UTC)

Yes. No pressure. Thank you! If you change your mind the doors/link will remain accessible ;-) Zblace (talk) 18:55, 9 February 2021 (UTC)

Hey there! I would to work on this session. It is such a nice and needed proposal for this region. Count me in!!!--Kristina Millona (talk) 16:49, 11 February 2021 (UTC)

Brilliant! Noted :-)

Kolektyw Kariatyda how about you? Zblace (talk) 17:19, 11 February 2021 (UTC)

Hi, I'm writing on behalf of Kolektyw Kariatyda. We've just finished an LGBT+ themed edit-a-thon and we're also working on making the Polish CEE Spring list inclusive in the already existing CEE categories. GiantBroccoli (talk) 08:30, 18 February 2021 (UTC)

Brilliant! Let's coordinate GiantBroccoli Zblace (talk) 00:54, 21 February 2021 (UTC)

I just came across this 2019 effort, so I guess this is something also useful to coordinate over @GiantBroccoli: :-) -- Zblace (talk) 11:47, 29 March 2021 (UTC)

User:Ehrlich91 and User:IvanaMadzarevic please check above and let me know if you would be able to join Wikimedia CEE Sring article list making? It would be awesome if multiple national lists add more diverse feminist content this year and not just a female person and there. --Zblace (talk) 18:46, 4 March 2021 (UTC)

@Zblace: I`m not sure about this, as we did not have firstly many articles about this into Macedonian Wikipedia, which should be primary. So, for current edition, I did not believe that we can include such list into our contest. --Ehrlich91 (talk) 20:09, 5 March 2021 (UTC)

OK - It will be in the Interrnational list and lists for Women anyway. -- Zblace (talk) 09:46, 13 March 2021 (UTC)

QUESTION: EN Wikipedia as central/only reference?

Hey folks what do you think about decentering EN Wikipedia as central (kind of) reference language and using also Simple Wikipedia + French and Italian?

I think there is a bit of American bias that could be addressed proactivly via Simple Wikipedia if Notability is adapted and used for cross-polination of trans-national/regional content.

Best -- Zblace (talk) 13:57, 12 February 2021 (UTC)

Webinar March 3rd with guest Wikimedians

Hi! I am organizing a Webinar March 3rd with out of CEE guest Wikimedians ART+Feminism and Who's Knowledge? to discuss feminist, anti-racist and de-colonial positions in practice. We will adress more abstract meta topics like positionality and futurity of 'normative' situations of wikimedia work, but also get super practical over proposals methods of work and article lists that are CEE relevant. If interested please let me know in advance as we do not want to advertise zoom links, but want to have interactive session after the initail introductions. Some material for discussion will be shared in advance based on conversations we already have with AfroCROWD and Les sans pagEs representatives. -- Zblace (talk) 21:40, 24 February 2021 (UTC)

UPDATE: 5:45pm soft start – presentations from 6:15pm Central European Time with ♡ wonderful Whose Knowledge? and Art+Feminism User Group Zblace (talk) 21:17, 2 March 2021 (UTC)