Talk:Wikimania 2014 bids/Arusha

Name

As far as I can see the city is generally referred to as "Arusha" as one word - not "Arusha Town" or "Arusha City". The mix of terms in the bid is very confusing. CT Cooper · talk 21:01, 17 December 2012 (UTC)

Venue and attendees

Does Ngurdoto Mountain Lodge have the facilities for hosting Wikimania? A large auditorium and a collection of smaller rooms are essential. There will also need to be a range of accommodation available beyond the lodge with good transport to and from the venue. Furthermore, I suspect "1400~3000 attendees" is unrealistic - see w:Wikimania#Overview. CT Cooper · talk 18:37, 1 January 2013 (UTC)

• Venue and attendees

Ngurdoto Mountain lodge has very highly facilities for any kind Conferences, seminers, symposiums, Workshops and meetings and thats why all metings of EAC Summit are being held there and at the same time while Leo Sulvan Summit in Tanzania at the Arusha Iternational Conference centre there was a time where all participants wents to Ngurdoto to have a Dinner please wory not about Ngurdoto it's an hotel where every thing can be done.it is true about the capacity of accommodation at ngurdoto including Conference before there was only two big Halls one was Victoria and the second was Meru with capacity of 700 and 400 that was before the building of Tanzania Convention centre which has two parts Ground Frour and Mezine with same capacity of serving up to 8000 people so that is Arusha T Cooper worry not about.

• Transport

There will be transport from all the hotels listed to wikimania conference arrengments has already set for a number of buses to and from hotels to conference worry not about

Copyright violations

I have removed some content that was copied from the Tanzanian government's website - given the apparent lack of permission, this is a copyright violation, and with their being no attribution whatsoever, it is also plagiarism. I note that this is the second time that I have found the Arusha bid page to contain material that infringes copyrights, and that I have previously warned the main co-ordinator of this bid not to copy content from other websites. I hope there isn't a third time, because if this carries on it will not impress the jury. Feel free to use information from other websites, but put it in your own words please, and provide link to the websites you use.

On the side note, a large proportion of this page seems to be copied Wikipedia articles. The license of Wikipedia requires that when content be re-used from Wikipedia, that proper attribution be provided, which this page doesn't do, meaning this is also technically plagiarism and a copyright violation - see w:Wikipedia:Copying within Wikipedia. CT Cooper · talk 13:34, 3 February 2013 (UTC)

• Violation

Tank you T. Cooper I will consider with.

• its me am sory for takl with you without sighn Francis Kaswahili

Visas

Please can you expand the visa section. What people look for at this stage are a list of countries where people are unlikely to be able to get visas - hopefully for this bid that will a short list; For those where visas are required is this a simple cash requirement on arrival, a matter of form filling in your Tanzanian embassy in your capital, or are their bigger hurdles. The ideal Wikimania venue is one where any Wikimedian from anywhere in the world can come either without a visa or with an easily obtained one. WereSpielChequers (talk) 17:03, 9 February 2013 (UTC)

• About Visa section

as you can see in the link of Visa you can agree with me that the web has is very week discussion is on progres with the government hoe to update the link

Mosquitoes

My memory of Arusha was that it was mosquito free in the dry season, is that correct? If so you might want to mention that in the bid. WereSpielChequers (talk) 23:33, 20 February 2013 (UTC)

Questions for the bid team

Hi Arusha Team,

You have noted well that your bid provides a good opportunity for outreach and awareness raising.

Could you answer the following questions - it would help make an assessment. Thank you.

Dates

The bid says “August 2014”. What are the exact dates envisaged?

People

• How many members of the bid team have been to a previous Wikimania?
• What is the contractual basis for the promised services from the Government of Tanzania? Our government has put very crear that if Arusha win they promise to give every kind of support and soon the prime minister shall write aletter of supporting of the bid
• If Commonwealth countries do not need a visa, why do UK citizens need one? this is a dipromatic problem and to planing to send a letter to the minister of foreign afairs crilfing the matter

The plan estimates 700 + 1200 registrations. That is an estimate of 1200 registrations. There is also a mention of a target of 3000 people.

• What is the basis for this estimation of numbers? our plan now is to save 3000 attendee and this number is not limited we can serve up to seven thousand
• What is your estimation of the effects on the accommodation and catering requirements of these variations? the same being served to the conference hall is the same being serve catering in the mezine flour

Accommodation

Quantity

Ngurdoto Mountain Lodge website says the Lodge has 139 rooms, accommodating “up to 350 guests”. There are two conference rooms (600 + 400), but the bid says it can accommodate 5000. Could you clarify how many attendees you are anticipating will be accommodated in this Lodge? Ngurdoto itself has 350 among of this of rooms there is 72 ordinary rooms wich can accommodate to 288 for puting four beds more and Ngurdoto has sister hot4els of Naura Spring and Imapala distance to 27 kilometers to ngurdoto also there is Arusha Hotel, Mount Meru hotel, Kibo palce Hotel,arusha Palece Hotel, East African Hotel and our team now is identified all hotels in Arusha

Quality (fitness for Wikimania)

The accommodation described does not seem to offer much flexibility in its room configurations. That is, one large bed in a large room is not really appropriate for a conference attended by a majority of single people.

• Is it possible to add smaller beds to rooms to accommodate two or three attendees?' obvius

The bid recommends using only the nominated hotels for security reasons.

• If the proposed accommodation is split between two venues, instead of either being all in one place or spread around a number of places, how do you plan to prevent the attendees developing an "us and them" feeling? our proposed number of attendees is biger it need more than 15 hotels and its possible other attendees to accommodate to the Makumila University near by ngurdoto mountain lodge.

Transport

The bid says “there will have special buses from the hotels to and from the conference venue".

• Is the accommodation at the same place as the conference or not? some attendee will be accommodated to Ngurdoto and other on City centre hotels
• If not, what is the promised schedule for the "special buses" to and from hotels to conference venue? Will they be "on call" or to a set schedule? no problem with transport to our guest to and from hotels to the conference
• What are the bus staffing arrangements? That is, who owns them? Who will drive them? How many attendees can occupy each bus (5, 10, 100 people per bus)? The wikimania 2014 will be seved by Tanzanian scout instead of swtudents it is planed that scaout tants for a number 200 scout to save the conference and guiding attendees and to make sure that all participants are derivered in time for the caparcity the bus
• Is there any transport or meeting planned for conference arrivals at the airport?no meeting at airport for all traveling straight to KILIMANJARO international Airpot, there would be onotheroption to all travelers with problem of conections to Kilimanjaro in that case the organizers we'll arrenge the Dar es salaam to ARUSHA on 3rd of August 2014

Budget

• Did the fundraising proposed actually happen? We have aplan of making a fundraising and already sme companies have shown interest of handling the matter
• To what extent do you regard the proposed sponsors as reliable?
• Is there a back up plan or risk management plan?yes every plan have adivantege and disadvantege we are very care of that my self am very recognised man in tanzania due to my being a sportsman and in that a I am a secretary of Young african Sports club electral Committee so i have an enfruence to very potencial people some companies has offered spornsorship packadge of the two highst spornsoship level of Mwalimu nyerere and Kwame nkrumah
• Does the number of available rooms allow for the projected 1200-5000 attendees? yes in Arusha city for accommodation and caterling service at ngurdoto for lunch we are plan to offer Lunch to all Participants
• Are there financial penalties for cancelling bookings at the Lodge or increasing them? of cause yes this will be set outomacatically
• If VIP accommodation is budgeted at 10 @$1000, why is budget allocation for this $200,000?the actual budget to be completed soon

Cultural events

A wonderful set of opportunities for seeing the country are mentioned in the bid.

• Are there any recommended tour organisations?yes the team shall apoint aspecial committee for that event
• Are there any partnerships set up with tour organisations or planned tours that Wikimedians could join as a group after the conference? the kindness and hospitality in Tanzania is a culture and on this we promise to wonder the wikimedians Community

Whiteghost.ink (talk) 07:38, 21 February 2013 (UTC)

Internet connectivity

Hello! The bid from the Arusha team looks inviting indeed! I have a suggestion and a question. Right now, the bid page is cluttered with all kinds of information about Tanzania as a place and the Wikimania event proposal. Maybe you should separate both for more clarity.

My question is regarding Internet connectivity. It is not mentioned is the lodge has wireless internet or would you be spending on getting internet? Coming from a place like India, it is a big concern for me because without internet one can practically do nothing in Wikimania. Hope you can answer that in your bid.

Thanks! Noopur28 (talk)

• About Internet

Hello! Noopur28 (talk) very Sorry for our delay to respond on your talk, thank you for your advice, some how it will be done. The Arusha Bid team is very considered on availability of Internet as an point of success of the Conference I promise you that all of the selected Hotels or Hostels one of condition to be selected is Internet whether Lodge or Guest House. Thank you Francis Kaswahili (talk)

Some questions

Hello team.

Some of my questions or remarks may be slightly redundant with previous questions (hmm, in particular when I was not very satisfied with the answer or when the answer was not provided)

1. Did any of the planned team already attended a previous Wikimania ?

2. Could you please separate the page in three parts (three pages). One including a short summary of the bid, introduction of the team etc. One including the details of the bid proposition. And a third including the information about Arusha, geography, culture, politics etc. Or inspire you of the division made by example on the UK bid and adapt it to your taste. Right now, the situation is a little bit confused...

3. The figures you mention in terms of attendeed are scaring me a little to be honest. 3000... 5000... or even 7000. Aside from catering and hosting issues, is the event place providing enough place for all those people ? For example, could you clarify what is the size of the biggest amphitheater ? (how many people can it host ?). The size of the second ? etc.

4. Could you provide more information about weather, often looked for. Specific endemic diseases as well

5. Definitly need more data about budget. Along your line, it appears the place's not cheap. It would be a good move to indicate as soon as possible idea of prices for the hotel room for example. Incidently, if an hotel is hosting 300 rooms with large beds, it may not be able to provide small side beds for these 300 rooms.

6. Is there any specific linguistic/religious/cultural issue we should be aware of ?

7. In the list of "weaknesses", I think it would be better to really see weaknesses. Not unclear statements or reassurance that a weakness can be fixed as it can suggests information is hidden. For example, I see not where the weakness stands in Food Around the Ngurudoto Mountain lodge there are a mixture of expensive and cheap eating places and a wide range of cuisine at competitive prices we mean to compare with other cities of Tanzania but normally dinner plays to $1 up to $10. We will issue attendees with a guide (in collaboration with Travelwiki?). This does not look like a weakness but as a statement. So what is the hidden weakness ? Please be more straight here :)

Thanks a LOT for all the work you are doing. It looks like an EXCITING bid so any improvement will be welcome. Anthere (talk) 23:16, 3 March 2013 (UTC)

some answers

1. No we will attend next conference in Hong Kong for Pre Conference and main conference to get more experience than we have.

2. Yes some how we can do but you can't to compares with London Team as you know most the are creators of these projects,

3.I repeat again that the next conference if Arusha being chosen it we'll be historical for unbeatable for a number of years. Tanzania Convention Center has 5400 square meter and is one of few latest Conferences in Africa and it's a proud of East Africa and the most of EAC summit are holding there. The Minimum capacity is 3000 attendee and maximum is 7000, also there is Victoria Conference serving 1000 attendee and Meru 600, the Conference is surrounded with green Garden, Football ground, Basketball,ETC 4. I we'll give details on 16th of march 2013. 5. Data about budget is know available please go through expenditure, hotels in Arusha is expensive but there shall be legally contract with the hotels owners all those people booking for wikimania we'll have special discount set in the hotels websites, the prices started to $ 30 to $ 90 and the highest is $ 90 - $ 200 pending their hotel tariffs.

6. Arusha is a tourism city every body looks for his business with respecting the rule of law.

7. to be considered Thank you very much and sorry for kind of delay Francis Kaswahili (talk)

The issues of LGBT rights in Tanzania

Hello team:

I'm a jury member, and also a proposed initial board member of Wikimedia LGBT. According to w:LGBT rights in Africa, I found that same-sex sexual activity is illegal (even the penalty is up to life imprisonment) and no recognition and anti-discrimination of same-sex relationships in Tanzania. I know it is the local law. However, there's many LGBT Wikipedians attend Wikimania each year, and the LGBT community always organize meetups of LGBT as a event of Wikimania (e.g. LGBT Meetup in DC and the up coming meetup in Hong Kong). According to Friendly space policy, the Wikimedia Foundation is dedicated to providing a harassment-free conference experience for everyone (including LGBT attendees). So, how to ensure it if the Wikimania held in Arusha, Tanzania?

Sincerely

Shujen Chang

--Shujenchang (talk) 15:04, 4 March 2013 (UTC)

I just checked and I am not allowed into this country because of my LGBT advocacy work - they'd reject me at the airport. So this is a problem in my mind.

--Varnent (talk)^(COI) 16:21, 20 April 2013 (UTC)

The issue was discussed on IRC - Wikimania 2014/IRC meeting 2013-04-07. PiRSquared17 (talk) 16:34, 20 April 2013 (UTC)

If this location is chosen for Wikimania and as it appears there is potential for life imprisonment for LGBT people and we would have no expectation of protection from homophobic harassment (such as me wearing a Gay Pride tee-shirt in public - as I did the other night during the Wikimedia conference in Milan) I have no doubt that there is not a snowball's chance in hell I would be attending as I would not be welcome as I would be in fear of any claim of being actively homosexual, further, as a conscientious member of our community that is well known to be openly gay and consulted on these issues, I would have to advise LGBT Wikimedians that it was not safe for them to attend unless the state changes its policies.

I guess it is time for LGBT Wikimedians to make that viewpoint completely clear. --Fæ (talk) 17:47, 20 April 2013 (UTC)

The IRC answer is a very poor one and I am disappointed the jury did not push it more. Just saying "there's a good chance you will not get arrested" and "we are not the only country with this law" does not address anything. Again, the request from someone (this was a few years ago and involved many countries - so I do not recall the name, etc.) within Tanzanian Govt that I not visit the country based on objections from me and a group of other LGBT advocates in the US to their laws implies to me that all LGBT people would be in danger. Many countries, including the UK and US, advise LGBT travelers to avoid - or at least take great caution - in all countries where LGBT behavior is illegal. US State Dept's description for Tanzania sounds troublesome - "individuals suspected of being gay or lesbian have instead been charged with loitering or prostitution"^[1]. WM/WMF encouraging LGBT Wikimedians to attend sounds very problematic. I would hope that WMF funded conferences would avoid any country where a group of Wikimedians could be arrested based on their indenties. I would like a more realistic response addressing this beyond hoping it doesn't become a problem. I will actively recommend any LGBT Wikimedians NOT attend this event for personal safety reasons. Especially if they live in a country with a travel advisory related to this issue - which presents other problems for those individuals. I would make the same recommendation to Jewish Wikimedians if it were held in a country with hostile policies towards those individuals. No one should feel this type of legal threat while attending a Wikimedia event. --Varnent (talk)^(COI) 18:15, 20 April 2013 (UTC)

Hiy,Varnent (talk)^(COI). The answer given to IRC is very clear it’s our intentional that all wikimedian community participating on wikimania conference are free regardless of whatever they are, and no body will be there for spying the gender of a human being, and the truth remaining as the same to any other countries in this world that no any body will be arrested without omitting of crime its my sincerely that Wikimanian participants will perform their obligations as conference participants and the conference organizasers will take all measure steps to protect participants for any abusive, discrimination or misusing laws Its also in the mind that, no participant from any part of the world will be flagged a label of being an LGBT or non-LGBT, all have equal rights before the human rights basis whether a woman neither a man and referring to our IRC answer, this same sex sexual activity in many countries around the world is debatable and Tanzania is not an exception. However since the acts is agreement between 2 persons and the activity is done in privacy regardless of a male to male, female to female or male to female this is a completely privacy there will be no interaction with the country laws. The possibility of forcing the state to change the laws is definitely impossible, because even in the developed countries are debatable example, Lesbian, gay, bisexual, and transgender (LGBT) rights in the United States have evolved over time and vary on a LGBT rights in the United States by state-by-state basis. Unlike most other developed nations, the United States does not extend complete legal rights to its LGBT citizens on a national level. Please take note that we all together and let be together as a human being in the same world, the place where we can live peacefully and enjoying the creature of our almighty god who made earth and heaven with all fruitfully and lastly LGBT and non-LGBT all together welcome in Arusha Tanzania and our promise to this is securing your participation. _Manawa|Talk ^{Education First}19:25, 22 Apil 2013

Again, I think you are failing to miss the point of the concerns that people have. No one is questioning YOUR intention. We are questioning the safety of LGBT people in the bid nation. That has absolutely nothing to do with your personal thoughts and more to do with your nation's laws. If your laws allow for the arrest of LGBT participants, short of changing the country's laws, what protections can you offer? Can you elaborate more on what that means? I would like to know what can and would be done to secure my participation. So far, nothing stated has indicated that is true, or that any efforts have been made to back your statements.

I absolutely agree that the US lacks full LGBT protections. However, there is a HUGE difference between allowing LGBT people to be fired from their jobs and allowing them to be arrested for being LGBT or LGBT behavior as Tanzania does. I do not think anyone is saying that the US or other nations are a model for LGBT protections. However, the US Supreme Courts, President, State Department, and laws specifically prevent the arrest of LGBT people based on behavior - so the threat of being arrested for LGBT behavior or alternatively for prostitution or solicitation is simply not a concern any longer.

Also, the point that this is only for private acts unlikely to be proven is again, not the point (as stated before). The US government agrees with your assessment, but points out that Tanzania's government has responded to the problem by instead arresting LGBT people for prostitution or solicitation instead. Without much effort I was able to find comments from the US Government and international human rights organizations that these types of arrests have occurred very recently. Are there any guarantees that your government will not arrest any LGBT people for any reason related to their sexual orientation while attending Wikimania? If the bid team can get your government to make that guarantee in writing, then I think the bid team could feel more confident in promising to secure our safety while participating. However, again, I would like to know how this bid teams plans to back their statements.

I do not feel that the concerns of LGBT Wikimedians about this bid have been addressed, I am still not personally allowed entry into the country, and the answer from the bid team shows a lack of empathy or understanding of the situation. Implying that LGBT Wikimedians will feel safe in Tanzania because it's just "unlikely" they will be arrested is, I am sorry, an unrealistic expectation. Again, I would absolutely NOT advice any LGBT Wikimedians to go to a nation where there is even a slight chance they could be arrested simply for being LGBT. That has not been an issue at any previous Wikimania host nation, including the US (which again has practices and a Supreme Court ruling specifically preventing this), despite how poor the US's LGBT rights are - they at least have some protections in place. I would also be happier if the bid team consulted Amnesty International, the International Gay and Lesbian Human Rights Commission, or other experts on the topic. If they agreed with the bid team that there was NO threat to LGBT Wikimedians, and would be willing to share that opinion in writing, I would find that far more compelling than a statement that the bid team does not intend to discriminate, but no actual guarantee that their government will not beyond a "it is unlikely to happen" - when in fact even the US Government, as bad as they are at LGBT issues, addresses those legal challenges by arresting LGBT people for prostitution or loitering. I would also be interested in what professional legal experience the bid team has to feel confident in offering a legal interpretation. If there is none, then has the bid team consulted any attorneys to back up their statements that this will not be a problem? --Varnent (talk)^(COI) 04:40, 23 April 2013 (UTC)

This should NOT influence anything - but I'd feel negligent in any outcomes if I didn't point out that LGBT orgs - at least in the USA - would make their concerns known, possibly private - but probably public - which could also hurt fundraising efforts for the event from US-based companies. --Varnent (talk)^(COI) 18:41, 20 April 2013 (UTC)

I think it is worth members of the Arusha bid team, the judging panel and WMF staff and trustees that will read this section, to take a moment and consider how few of our LGBT Wikimedians feel able to openly raise and discuss issues of LGBT access and discrimination. As a co-founder of Wikimedia LGBT I have been approached by many LGBT Wikimedians who support more (neutral and balanced) work in this area but do not want to be outed or thought to be LGBT, for reasons as varied as it could be dangerous or damage their career to be openly gay in their home country, they do not want be be permanently labelled as that gay Wikimedian or accused of having a Gay Agenda with the associated issues of the unwelcome attention they might then attract on the internet as well as on the Wikimedia projects. The answer here that LGBT Wikimedians might be okay if they stay in the closet is offensive in my view, and impossible for people like Greg who are a known professional in LGBT support, or others like myself in a same sex marriage which makes it impossible to truthfully fill out legal forms without outing myself.

Knowing the WMF and members of the judging panel have already taken this issue seriously is a comfort to me personally, should any of you wish to discuss it in confidence then I am happy to be contacted by email. This is a personal priority for my volunteer Wiki-time and I hope an opportunity to improve our shared public policies for access and ensuring all our future events are safe spaces for every participant. Thanks --Fæ (talk) 07:28, 23 April 2013 (UTC)

While the Tanzanian statutes on this matter are reprehensible (as some laws have been and indeed are in most countries of the world) I question whether the solution is to isolate these countries, or to bring them into a more enlightened understanding by sharing cultures. It is a widely held tenet of gay activism that the presence of an openly gay population in an oppressive environment is part of the process of changing that environment. Rich Farmbrough 18:32 24 April 2013 (GMT).

You may have a point, though as an official card-carrying homosexual, I don't think my people have had a set of tenets since the GLF manifesto :-) However, the scope of Wikimania does not encompass gay activism, apart from where it may overlap with our shared open knowledge mission. The key concern here is to ensure Wikimania is a safe space for all those that wish to participate, which would be hard to achieve if some of us are openly gay and at the same time advised by our home governments that "homosexuality is illegal in Tanzania". In practice, I would expect just being myself as an openly gay man who is in a legally recognized same-sex marriage, or being there to represent the Wikimedia LGBT organization, would invalidate my travel insurance should any legal problem arise as a result of a claim that I was up to some sort of "homosexuality". --Fæ (talk) 18:53, 24 April 2013 (UTC)

That is not a totally accurate characterization of what the LGBT rights movement promotes. Above all things, advocates (myself included) tell people to stay safe. In very rare, organized, and planned events do activists work with folks in areas where being LGBT is a legal risk in an effort to increase attention to the matter. However, as Fae as pointed out, that should absolutely NOT be the purpose of a Wikimania conference. I agree that it is unfortunate this something like this may prevent something like Wikimania coming to a country that makes being LGBT illegal - but I think that is all the more reason for people living there to engage in activism to eliminate those laws. The same should be true for countries where women could be in legal trouble for the way they dress, people of specific faiths being in legal danger, or differently abled people who be unable to fully participate. An unfortunate reality of any international conference is that the need to provide safety for participants makes some hosts more challenging than others. Again, I suggest you consider getting a response from the Tanzanian government on this issue. However, I do not think even the Tanzania LGBT activist community would agree with putting people from other countries in danger over a local issue. --Varnent (talk)^(COI) 03:55, 25 April 2013 (UTC)

To my Friends,Rich Farmbrough, --Fæ (talk) and --Varnent (talk)^(COI) LGBT and non LGBT it seems to be an agenda changing even the theme of the wikimania 2014 Conference just because Tanzanian is against. And seriously our contribution to this matter has been concluded on that demand, we have reached on capacity of giving information regarding that matter, it is clearly as we our clarification on basis of reality and constitutionals will still as it is. Tanzania as a sovereign state bounded under many conventions signed and ratified by the national parliament for several times, with this regard I definitely not go to seek advice to our government officials about LGBT or non LGBT as we clearly clarifies. The policy of Wikimedia Foundation lets longer be a bridge of gathering community for discussions regarding the world renovation on capacity and equalization. Any act of forcing our country to put banners on the load welcoming LGBT or non LGBT its segregation, repressions, a colonialism affairs and slaveries which is unaccepted we are all together in one manner of human being and we all supposed to obey and agreed in any circumstances in capacity of culture and traditional of each other. If some one regardless of being LGBT or non LGBT decided to participate in the wikimania 2013 in Hong Kong or in any country he should have to obey the rules governing in that country and don’t force to legalize their culture or traditional. Wikimedia Foundation shall have not allow this rat trap because it’s impact is to demolish the wall of Wikimedia Foundation made strong by our founders, our founders took their time and money to rebuilt. Today we are creating about LGBT or non LGBT and what about tommorow? Do you think this will end to 2014 bids as Tanzania is among of bidder? is it that idea of isolating these countries which are more than 90% ?. It is definitely not. We are very much aware that this inspiration are planted for other people to misbehave and seen as discriminators of the human rights that thing will never be happen in Tanzania am again repeating that all participants of Wikimania 2014 in Arusha City will be safe and making sure no one is violating the human rights, its our precautions that every body have to obey the Tanzanians rules as he obeyed the autonomy and rules of his original destination. This is our humble submitting that, the Wikimania 2014 is in the hand of jury committee who can decide Arusha or London but Arusha is the right place for this conference. _Manawa|Talk ^{Education First} 14:44, 25 Aril 2013 (UTC)

I think you are assuming that we believe people will violate the law governing LGBT behavior and then get arrested. That is not the concern. The concern, as verified by the US DoS, is that you are in danger of being arrested simply for being LGBT, regardless of what you may or may not have done - beyond doing something to indicate you are LGBT or LGBT supportive. If there were a concern of people being arrested for who they are and not what they've done - I would have had the same concerns about Hong Kong - but that is not a concern. Similarly I was able to confirm that they would have no problems getting confirmation of that from their government.

It is not about LGBT activism or anything like that. It would be beneficial for that movement for some international people to be arrested and all the media attention that would bring. It is about the safety of Wikimedians attending this event. I would absolutely hope this concern would extend beyond the 2014 bid and be a factor when considering any of the 5-8% of nations that arrest or threaten people based not on their behavior or actions, but based on who they are. I agree that at this point not much else can be said, unless the bid team is willing to get input from Amnesty International or the Tanzanian LGBT advocacy organization (which does exist btw) on the issue of safety. The comment from US DoS is that LGBT people are not safe - regardless of how hard they try to follow the law. I also agree that at this point we just need to wait and see what the bid committee decides. --Varnent (talk)^(COI) 14:23, 25 April 2013 (UTC)

FTR, I just looked at Australian and British travel advices and they don't mention it at all. Canada's has a single line buried on the fourth page about homosexual activity being "illegal and subject to serious penalty". I'd imagine if Tanzania had a serious problem or recent history in this area, that it would be more than just noted on at least one of those three. Orderinchaos (talk) 01:47, 26 April 2013 (UTC)

Hi Orderinchaos, for the UK site it is there, you just needed to click on the 'Local laws and customs' subsection. See https://www.gov.uk/foreign-travel-advice/tanzania/local-laws-and-customs. On the AU site, similarly you needed to click on "Laws" where it states for Australian travelers: "Homosexual acts are illegal as is the possession of pornographic material. Penalties range from 30 years to life imprisonment." Considering how in the long history of pornography legal cases, it is notoriously difficult to set any criteria of what is "pornographic material", I suspect a Wikimedian with Grindr on their mobile phone, a haphazard cache from Gaydar on their laptop, a set of their own candid photos on their camera, or for that matter a cache of images with nudity from Wikimedia Commons, would put them at serious risk of arrest and imprisonment. --Fæ (talk) 08:01, 26 April 2013 (UTC)

Hi,--Varnent (talk)^(COI), If you find or make research which country has a good record of International conventions agreements you'll find Tanzania and for implementing of Human Rights basis than any other country in Africa, that is our traditional of hospitality, kindness and is a homeless of immigrants, am repeating this again, with not assuming or guessing what is stated is a real statement of our team and any responsibility of participants belongs to us as a team. The matter here is Wikimania 2014 conference in Arusha from 5th to 10th of august, all those decided to remain in the country regarding that they have a valid Visa of stay after a conference, as you'll see one of potential sponsor of the conference is The Tanzania Investment center on behalf the Government and investment does not segregate of investors for their color, National, religion, gender LGBT or non LGBT the issue here is obedience of the rules. the topic of Wikimani participants whether LGBT or non LGBT from any part of the world is not an issue, all the welcoming banners prepared by the team identifying the Wikimania conference its illogical to reintroduce of being LGBT or non LGBT, I will understand and appreciate for asking about preparations if Arusha got an opportunity and lastly no any body will be arrested for being with disability, drunken, LGBT or non LGBT and if some some decided to walk naked in streets people will look him/her as insane as we don't expect that some one can travel from far to find a shame him/her self, with this opportunity I invite all those interested to participate in the Wikimania 2014 if Arusha given this opportunity. _Manawa|Talk ^{Education First} 21:28, 25 April 2013 (UTC)

You seem to be missing the point of the concerns. It's not about whether the Wikimania organisers segregate visitors. The problem is that people who visit Tanzania with a same-sex partner risk criminal sanctions and other discrimination.

If we had someone suggesting that we ought to have Wikimania in mainland China, that'd inherently be a problem because of internet censorship. We rightly recognise that censored Internet is incompatible with the WMF Vision of imagining "a world in which every single human being can freely share in the sum of all knowledge".

Well, countries that have discriminatory laws based on gender and sexuality are similarly incompatible with the WMF vision. If you are a gay man in Iran and someone hangs you from a lamppost for your sexuality, you aren't going to be doing much "freely sharing in the sum of all knowledge". Being dead tends to be incompatible with reading or contributing to Wikimedia projects. That country's values are antithetical to the values of the Wikimedia movement.

If you are a woman in Afghanistan and roving bands of Taliban thugs throw acid in your face for going to school, you probably won't be able to "freely share in the sum of all knowledge". That country's values are antithetical to the values of the Wikimedia movement.

The protection of human rights for women and minorities is, I'd argue, pretty important if we take the universal component of the Wikimedia Vision seriously: "every human being" should mean everyone.

When Wikimedia has a conference in a country, we are implicitly endorsing that country to some extent: we are giving movement money to that country's people, businesses and government. It's not a matter of whether the conference organisers intend to be discriminatory: the issue is about whether a place that has laws that discriminate against people on the basis of sexuality (and impose draconian sanctions for breaking those rules) is an appropriate place to host a conference for a movement that seeks to advance the sharing of knowledge for "every single human being". —Tom Morris (talk) 09:28, 26 April 2013 (UTC)

Team

What experience does the Organizing Team have in Wikimedia? Have you ever organized any Wikimedia or free-culture events in the past?Abbasjnr (talk) 10:09, 16 March 2013 (UTC)

Hello,Shujenchang (talk) The Arusha bid team is comprising of experienced persons and very titled in Tanzania. Personally Francis kaswahili has an experience on organizing events by him self or by appointed to be among of organizers of events, Ephrem Kibonde is a Radio/Television presenter and has participated/agonized cultural event, Joseph Mayala is a Country residence Director Compassion International a very technical man, Abubakar Sadik is a an private advocate experienced with Community events, Hamis Yowa is an journalist for more than 25 yers and has an experience of organizing events, Sulta Mpingo, Ahmed Hassan are web designers, Felix Daniel has an experience of organizing events at the Tanzania convention centerand he is the operation manager of Impala Group of Hotels in Arusha. Thank you and sorry for our delay _Manawa|Talk^{Education First} 22:30, 11 March 2013

Let me rephrase my question: by free-culture, I mean events that are related to Wikimedia, Creative Commons, Open Data or other open-source projects. So, have you ever organized these types of events before? Abbasjnr (talk) 10:09, 16 March 2013 (UTC)

Hello,Abbasjnr (talk) I Organized some events, but not any events related to wikis projects, I have an experiences on free culture as a potential man in the cultural Industry of Tanzania and am a subscriber of creative Commons. Since become a Wikimedian the stuation in my country is now changing we have called a meeting of introducing The Wikimedia Tanzania to Medias and followed by the Wikimedia Tanzania Conference on 27th of march _Manawa|Talk^{Education First}21:14, 16 March 2013(GMT)

Did not mean to be rude, Francis. But how come I've never know anything about you at all while I'm one of the greatest contributor of all time? Just curious! And don't forget to add me on the list. I might be a huge help than you could have imagined!--_Wikipedian ^(Activist) 13:43, 21 March 2013 (UTC)

• Don't worry (Activist) all wikimedia are familiars , we are together even me I need a number of people to run the ring for development of our continent, the time I engaged with Wekimedia community in 2011 I hasn't think to be a Wikimedia contributor as today I m. So your most welcome.

_Manawa|Talk^{Education First}

Jewish Holiday / conference dates

The dates pose a problem to religious jews who can not attend a conference on 4-5 August 2014. Deror avi (talk) 11:52, 17 March 2013 (UTC)

• Jewish Hollyday

Hello, Deror avi (talk) 11:52, 17 March 2013 (UTC)

we arranged on this date for a memorial of the first conference held on 2005, and if that is the case no problem all Jewish wishing to participate will plan their trip to Arusha and to land on the 2nd and 3rd, AUGUST 2014 and the organizers will cover their accommodation for that two days for enabling them to celebrate their holy day and then to join the conference on 6th, please inform us before planing your trip and to tell us how many your. Thank you _Manawa|Talk^{Education First}21:14, 16 March 2013(GMT)

I'm not quite sure what you are proposing or if it still applies after your more recent post, but please note that providing free accommodation to Jews that is not available to other people would be discrimination on religious grounds. That's illegal in a lot of countries (I don't know about Tanzania) and would be against Foundation policy. --Tango (talk) 20:55, 20 March 2013 (UTC)

• Hello,Tango (talk)we meant offer for only two days and was before changing the date, we had never think to discriminate any body by his/her color religions or nationality that things will never ever happen in our country that was how to find an alternative

_Manawa|Talk^{Education First}23:03 21, March 2014 (UTC)

Why is the conference not over the weekend as is customary (i.e Friday - Sunday, with un-conference on Wednesday- Thursday)? Deror avi (talk) 14:50, 18 March 2013 (UTC)

I second Deror avi: while it is realistic for most people to get a day off (or 1½ days if we arriving in on Thursday evening), it would be much more difficult to get a whole week off. While you have only three real conference days, why haven't you put them on Friday - Sunday? — NickK (talk) 23:19, 18 March 2013 (UTC)

• NickK (talk), i will submit your option to my colleagues, but our idea was to help on that matter and that's why we were decided to offer accommodation to all jewish.

_Manawa|Talk^{Education First} 14:50, 18 March 2013 (UTC)

• Thank you Francis. I would like to state that I am not a Jew, I am just not sure to be able to take a one week off in August (although a day off will be possible). Thus I seconded Deror avi's question without being interested in Jewish holidays — NickK (talk) 22:49, 19 March 2013 (UTC)

regarless of the dates conflict with the holiday, I would highly advise to move the conference to the weekend, and start it on the 6th of the month. Wikimania has always been on the weekend. Deror avi (talk) 11:22, 19 March 2013 (UTC)

• Due to the conflict of dates I have discussed with my team to shift to 6-10, August 2014this comes for respect of Jewish holiday. With this opportunity if Arusha given a chance of hosting the Wikimania 2014 am welcoming all of you and to say Karibu sana Tanzania.

_Manawa|Talk^{Education First}23:52 19 03 2013(+gmt)

Budget comments/ questions

Please amend budget putting into it the Materials Breakdown (now not in it) and amending the VIP budget - no more than 2 -3 keynotes. Also list what "Technical" means and how did you reach the amount, and take out "Scholarships" which is not part of the budget. Furthermore - "Volunteer appreciation" should not be part of the budget (and not "Georgetown students"), and also I want to see where the WiFi is in the budget. Deror avi (talk) 14:50, 18 March 2013 (UTC)

• Hello,Deror avi (talk)

We Considered to your comments and some changes has already done and about WiFi as i have mentioned in my questions WiFi at ngurdoto is available freely but in the case of more Internet providers may be we can arrange some money and we also have an opportunity to ask sponsorship from the provider companies _Manawa|Talk^{Education First}13:28 19, August 2014

You need to redo some of it:

catering - plan for no more than 1,000 attendees.

VIP - only Keynotes are VIPS. Not Wikimedia Foundation Officials who pay for their own travel, and not politians. Plan fro 1 -2 VIP who can stay at a room of $200 a night. redo this.

Scholarships - should not be part of budget. Take it out.

Participants Materials - where are the details?

Insurance - costs way to much.

Volunteer appreciation - should be out of budget (if ever should be financed by the chapter. Just for good measure - in 2011 the Volunteer appreciation cost a total of $250).

Deror avi (talk) 11:25, 21 March 2013 (UTC)

Accommodations comments/ questions

Can you clarify accommodations by filling in the following table (per each hotel/dorms ): Deror avi (talk) 14:50, 18 March 2013 (UTC)

• Yes, Deror avi (talk),I can do, to assure you worrying not am in Arusha with part of my team to make some clarification regarding Hotels, Conference, infrastructure in general and to negotiate with Hotels owners so I promise you all thing will be alright.

_Manawa|Talk^{Education First}

Five stars

Hotel type (no. of Stars)	Hotel Name	No. of Rooms (Single/Double) 1	No. of Beds	Hotel Price 2	Discount for Wikimania	pppp Night	No.to share	Distance from Venue	Link to Hotel's website
5*	The Palace Arusha Hotel	97	150	$95 to $200	$80	$40	2	15 Minutes by car	http://www.palacehotelarusha.com
5*	Ngurdoto Mountain Lodge	350	700	$100 to $250	$90	$30	3	1-3 minutes	http://www.thengurdotomountainlodge.com
5*	The Mount Meru Hote	170	250	$100 to $250	$80	$40	2	15 minutes	http://www.mountmeruhotel.com
5*	The Arusha Hotel Lodge	97	180	$100 to $250	80	$40	2	15 minutes	http://www.thearushahotel.com
5*	Kibo Palace Lodge	77	130	$100 to $350	$80	$40	2	15 minutes	http://www.kibopalacehotel.com
5*	The Palace Arusha Hotel	97	150	$95 to $200	$80	$40	2	15 Minutes by car	http://www.palacehotelarusha.com
5*	The Naura Springs Hotel	128	190	$95 to $250	$80	$40	2	15 Minutes by car	http://www.nauraspringshotel.com

Four stars

Hotel type (no. of Stars)	Hotel Name	No. of Rooms (Single/Double) 1	No. of Beds	Hotel Price 2	Discount to Wikimania	pppp Night	No. to share	Distance from Venue	Link to Hotel's website
4*	East African Hotel	40	70	$95 to $200	$80	$40	2	15 Minutes by car	http://www.eastafricanhotel.com
4*	Impala hotel	125	200	$95 to 220	$80	$40	2	14 Minutes by car	http://www.impalahotel.com
4*	The Premier Palace Hotel	50	100	$85 to $100	$60	$30	2	20 Minutes by car	http://www.premierpalace-hotel.com
4*	The Natron Palace Hotel	50	90	$50 to $75	$60	$30	2	15 Minutes by car	http://www.natronpalacehotel.com
4*	Corridor Spring Hotel	60	100	$120 to $350	$80	$40	2	20	http://www.corridorspringhotel.com
4*	Snow Crest Hotel	83	166	$180 to $350	$80	$40	2	10	http://www.snowcresthotel.com

Three stars

Hotel type (no. of Stars)	Hotel Name	No. of Rooms (Single/Double) 1	No. of Beds	Hotel Price 2	Discount for wikimania	pppp Night	No. to Share	Distance from Venue	Link to Hotel's website
3*	Equator Hotel	50	90	$90 to 100	$60	$30	3	15 Minutes	http://www.equator-hotel.com
3*	New Safari Hotel	48	90	$90 to 100	$75	$37.5	2	15 Minutes	http://www.thenewsafarihotel.com
3*	The African Tulip Hotel	29	29	$35 to 250	$90	$45	2	15 Minutes	http://www.theafricantulip.com
3*	Arusha Resort Centrel	56	150	$95 to 120	$80	$27	3	20 Minutes	http://www.arusharesortcenter.com
3*	Briston Hotel	42	84	$70	$45	$22.5	2	15 Minutesby car	http://www.bristonhotel.com
3*	Aquiline hotel	45	80	$75	$50	$25	2	20 Minutes by car	http://www.hotelaquiline.com
3*	New Pallsons hotel	45	80	$75	$50	$25	2	20Mns by car	http://www.pallsonshotel.com
3*	Rich hotel	45	50	$75	$60	$20	3	20Mns by car	http://www.richhoteltz.com
3*	Stereo hotel	45	70	$65	$50	$25	2	20Mns by car	http://www.stereohotel.com
3*	City Link Pentagon Hotel	45	90	$65	$50	$25	2	10Mns by car	http://www.hotelcitylink.com

One- Two stars

Hotel type (no. of Stars)	Hotel Name	No. of Rooms (Single/Double) 1	No. of Beds	Hotel Price 2	Discount for wikimania	pppp Night	No. to Share	Distance from Venue	Link to Hotel's website
2*	Meru View Motel	25	60	$60	$40	$20	2	12 Minutes	on progress
2*	Riadha Lodge	20	20	$35	$30	$15	2	12 Minutes	Email:shillyshellshell@yahoo.com
2*	Midways Hotel	33	30	$35	$25	$12.5	2	20 Minutes	This hotel approved by the team.
2*	Williams Hotel	30	30	$30	$25	$12.5	2	20 Minutes by car	This hostel approved by the team.
2*	Miami Hotel	25	25	$30	$25	$12.5	2	20 Minutes by car	This hostel approved by the team.
2*	Le Jacaranda Hotel	23	40	$35 to $80	$60	$30	2	16 Minutes by car	http://www.chez.com/jacaranda
2*	Olduvai Inn	13	28	$35 to $55	$40	$20	2	16 Minutesby car	http://+2552725543044, This hostel approved by the team.
2*	Lush Garden Business Hotel	60	100	$50 to $80	$60	$30	2	15 Minutes by car	http://www.lushgardenhotels.co.tz
2*	Bay Leaf House	5	10	$160 to $180	$90	$45	2	15 Minutes by car	http://www.bayleaftz.com
2*	Arusha Naaz Hotel LTD	21	35	$60	$50	$25	2	15 Minutes by car	http://www.arushanaaz.net

Dorms

Institution	Dorm Name	No. of Rooms (Single/Double) 1	No. of Beds 3	Dorm bed Price 2	Discount for Wikimania	pppp Night	No. to share	Distance from Venue	Link to Dorm's Website.
Holly Spirit Parish Arusha (RC)	Ngarenaro Hostel	31	99	$40	$30	$5	4 to 6	20 minutes by car	http://Mob: +255763044713/+255684510827, This hostel approved by the team.
Roman Catholic Archdioces of Arusha	Center House Hostel	20	35	$30 to $45	$40	$20	2/3	20 minutes by car	http://www.centerhousehostel.org
YMCA	Hostel	15	30	$35	$30	15	2	20 minutes by car	This hostel approved by the team.
akumira University	Hostel	150	450	not yet	ny	ny	3	5 minutes by car	http://www.makumira.ac.tz

¹ No. of rooms available to us - please check with the hotel. Usually block no. of rooms is only 50% of the hotel's actual no. of rooms. Account for single or double rooms - but not expensive suites.

• Block of rooms, That will never happen in our organization before the conference all Hotels listed to accommodate Wikimania participants there should have to sign a contract of understanding with the Legal department, about Wikimedia staffs will be accommodated near the conference venue.

² current price without block discounts. The actual price for the conference may be lower but not higher then this amount.

• About Price,All the price listed in the Hotels is their normal charges, there is some Hotels have assured us discount up to forty percent of normal charges regarding to the rate of hotels

³ Also - for dorms - maximum no. of beds per room, and if toilets and bathrooms are inside the room or apartment.

• About Dorms, The team is in negotiations with Makumil University to the possibility of providing rooms at the University compound and whatever it is arusha have a number of Hotels and guest Houses to accommodate more than 5000 people.

Venue Questions

Please fill in the following details for each conference room: Deror avi (talk) 15:16, 18 March 2013 (UTC)

Hall Name	Is main hall? 1	Hall Size 2	Capacity	Purposely	Dates on which Hall is available 3	Wifi 4
Tanzania Convention Center	Main Hall	6400sm	3000	Main Conference	1st - 9th August 2014	Yes
Victoria Hall	Small Hall	574(m2)	650	Board Meetings	1st - 9th August 2014	Yes
Meru Hall	Small Hall	371(m2)	500	Board Meetings	1st - 9th August 2014	Yes
Mandala Hall	Small Hall	254(m2)	300	Groups Meetings	1st - 9th August 2014	Yes
Mahale One Hall	Small Hall	170(m2)	250	Groups meetings	1st - 9th August 2014	Yes
Mahale two Hall	Small Hall	40(m2)	55	Groups Meetings	1st - 9th August 2014	Yes
Horombo one hall	Small Hall	119(m2)	200	Groups Meetings	1st - 9th August 2014	Yes
Horombo two Hall	Small Hall	40(m2)	55	Groups Meetings	1st - 9th August 2014	Yes

¹ Will this hall be used as the main hall of the conference,

• Answer, two,Yes it will be used as a main hall

² Max no. of people sitting in hall,

• Answer two, 3000 to 7000

³ please note if this hall is a combination of other halls - making them unavailable when it is used,

• Answer three, Yes there is two more halls called Vitoria Hall with capacity 1000 pax and Meru with capacity of 650pax

⁴ Will this hall have WiFi? Does it have it currently-

• Answer four, Definitively WiFi is available at all the time

Can u calrify and fill in the table - how many halls are available, and what is the total number of halls (see the London bid Discussion page and how it was done there). Deror avi (talk) 08:19, 19 March 2013 (UTC)

Questions from James Hare

Hello,

Thank you for taking the time to prepare this bid. I have some questions:

1. You mention that you have Wi-Fi at the venue. What are the upload and download speeds of the Internet connection at the venue? Is there a backup connection?
2. Have you secured the President as a keynote speaker?
3. Are you sure $5,000 is enough for a conference planner? For reference, Wikimania 2012 spent nearly $40,000 on conference consulting.
4. How much does transportation to Arusha from different parts of the world cost?
5. How much money have fundraisers in your organization raised for previous causes/projects?
6. To quote from your bid, "we expect to use more than 1.4bln USD". Am I reading that right, $1.4 billion?

Thank you for your time.

harej (talk) 21:54, 18 March 2013 (UTC)

• • To James Hare,harej (talk), thank you very much for your comments and need of some clarifications.
  • about the President, actually the President/s are invited only as guest of honor of a day, it's good luck that the proposed venue is protectively and our president he like very much that place, even crucial meeting this including East African Community summits are organized there.
  • About traveling coast this depends with connections,i will make explanation tomorrow but remember all tariffs ends on march 2014 for mot of airlines
  • I consider to your coments with your doubt on conference planner and the matter will be discussed very soon to add more budget on it,
  • About Fundraising this depending with events for example in our local conferences, meeting and festivals we were fundraising up to $50,000 and due to the changes of our infrastructures in Tanzania now we have very highly level of theater halls, we have national stadium, all this give us an opportunity to invite groups of artists and sports for fundraising,
  • About of total expenditure is $1.4 million and not a billion that was an error, very sorry for that.

_Manawa|Talk^{Education First}12:20 19 03 2014 (+gmt)

• Hello Mr. Jamas Hare thanks again for your comments which enable us to review our budget which know falls to $1.1 ml thank you for your experience.

_Manawa|Talk^{Education First}

Waste management

Has the team given any consideration to reducing the amount of waste at the conference by thoughtful consideration of suppliers, materials, volume or recycling? I appreciate that negotiations with suppliers is a whole task in itself, but when the team makes its decision about which supplier to give its business to, has anyone asked if there is a choice between plastic and paper plates, for example, or the possibility of multiple-use cups; or the extent of involvement in any recycling regime for bottles and cans? Are the venues' kitchens available for use at our conference? Thanks, Whiteghost.ink (talk) 02:48, 19 March 2013 (UTC)

Hello, Whiteghost.ink, our team have called a meeting on 30th of august 2014 to discus about issues, if you go through our bid, we have a conference structure where every point is covered. the next meeting of team organizers will announce departments with their responsibility, and 75% of them will be apointed from arusha _Manawa|Talk^{Education First} 12:59, 19 March 2013 (+gmt)

I do not understand. Please explain. Deror avi (talk) 11:26, 19 March 2013 (UTC)

• What am saying is, we have a meeting next week to discuss about the whole process of the bid even though as a human being I have to say thank you for reminding us. as bids team we hasn't think about waste and am telling you that already we have contacted the operation manager of the green Environmental LTD to supply the recycling bins. About supplying of Materials we promise to announce company which is capable and one of my assistant he is going to Dar es salaam tomorrow to find some company profiles which will be required to submit their bid, because even my self i was thought to wait the decision of Jury.

_Manawa|Talk^{Education First}18:53 19 03 2014

wiki community

Hello Team,

I just realized that your Chapter is not founded yet, and I am wondering how big your Wiki community is and what kind of projects have you done in the past? Have you had educational, outreach or GLAM projects, meet-ups, Camps or conferences?

If you won, whow would you do community outreach to increase participation in the free culture movement? Best, --OrsolyaVirág (talk) 17:19, 23 March 2013 (UTC)

• Thank you,OrsolyaVirág (talk)

It's a matter of time Osorlya Genes and pleased you to worry not about exeperience, I have a full support of my government what we now waiting is you jury to decided and give an opportunity to arusha City to host the Conference. We have a strong team to handle the matter, I have an experience of ogarnazing conferences and festival and the last one was in 2011 where I contacdacted a meeting of more than 5000 peoples members of Young african sports club, the festival of Morden met old traditions, this was a very succesfully Musical festival in 2010 and since 1993 I oganised 11 conferences, seminners andsports events, so I promise the Jury that with team we will never let you down. _Manawa|Talk^{Education First}23:53 23, March 2013 (UTC)

Is this for real?

Someone has to come out and say this - This can't be a real bid? I recall deleting hundred of pages associated or files uploaded by User:Francis_Kaswahili I think there might even be a block or two for that user on Meta - this name is very familiar to admins for some reason on Meta. I don't see a team here, plus I don't think the user in question knows how to link to userpages on wiki or how wikis work. The team doesn't actually list anyone. The "budget" if you can call it that lists over 600,000 USD for meals? - I don't think an argument needs to be made here. Francis, I think you should consider attending a Wikimania first this year or the next and then plan this bid again after you have some people locally supporting you. Theo10011 (talk) 17:02, 25 March 2013 (UTC)

+1 to what Theo said. Abbasjnr (talk) 05:40, 1 April 2013 (UTC)

Hey,Abbasjnr (talk), Theo was right to explain his view, Abbas to be frankly there's some experienced wikimedia users need not to see new comers are grownup and wishing the knowledge of IP industry surrounding to Asia,Europe, South America and North America. their every thing to make sure that this opportunity going not to Sub Saharan Africa and due to their high knowledge of playing with computer tools they twisted some contents in our bid trying to convince the Wikimedians Community that the Arusha Bid is not for real. through this opportunity am inviting all users wishing African success to view the history of our bid and you will see what has been done and some are3 supporting our competitors and still editing our Bid which I think is not fair because if you have decided to support one side it's better to stand to one side. At the end what is important is Conference Organization, I promise all people wishing new vision to Africa that we are capable to host the Wikimania 2014 in the tourism City of Arusha. Me I know each and every thing going on and all in all let the Jury's do their job. _Manawa|Talk^{Education First}15:21, 1 April 2013 (UTC)

• Thank You,Theo10011 (talk)I can under stand that every body has a rights to say any thing, first of all I thought that you could have to thank me for my efforts of engaging in promoting Wikimedia instead of blaming and abusing my interest and demanding a deletion our Bid just because of copying. don't make a loose of people to judge your capability of recalling a wikipedian unless otherwise your among of people whose interested in demolishing a new editors, and please don't pursuing colorists,tribes, religions and nationalists, since the beginning of Wikimania no any bid was completed without copying I also doubt if your not among of people intending to sabotage the African bid.
• The issue here is not as you think let the Jury's prof of my members being there or not because at the end what we need is the conference organization, even though i ask you to support Africa if your intntion is to promote Wikimedia and it's projects. thank you for you opinion.

_Manawa|Talk^{Education First}23:28 25, March 2013 (UTC)

This bid obviously has some serious issues ($10 per person for coffee and doughnuts? that's some good coffee!), but I think it looks worse than it is because of the team's poor English. We need to try and look past that. It is clear that a lot of work has gone into this - it obviously isn't a joke bid and it's a bit cruel to suggest it is. --Tango (talk) 21:40, 25 March 2013 (UTC)

Tango, there are a few issues surrounding this. Let's see- that user's account was created a few months ago for the sole purpose of this bid. The bid page itself was deleted at least 4 times by different admins, the user in question was blocked at least once. The user is currently under warning from another admin if you take a look at the talk page. There has been no one identifiable who has contributed to this bid besides the user in question. The link to the "team" members don't exist along with most other links. There is a letter of support attached from a chapter that doesn't exist. All of this barely touches the communication skill of the person in question, then there is the actual bid. If the admins had their way, this page would have remained deleted before it got this far. I count a total of 5 deletions to the bid page by a different admin each time. Listing over half a million USD as "meals" in Tanzania is a joke, it's been a while since I passed through Dar-es-salaam region but I can assure you from first-hand experience that listing 600,000 USD under just "meals" is preposterous.

Francis, Allow me to Thank you Now for your effort. You've done great work on this bid. I would request you to consider attending a Wikimania first, come to an event first about Wikimedia. Meet some of us in person, understand what goes into all this, and when you have experience, you can re-apply with more people locally working on the bid. Also, please don't email me directly. Thanks. Theo10011 (talk) 06:55, 26 March 2013 (UTC)

Theo, I generally agree with you. The team is much smaller and much less wiki-savvy than other teams -- and nevertheless produced quite a good looking page in the end. The editors of the pages seem to include Ahmed, Faraja Roy, Yohana Ndalahwa, and F[elix] Daniel.

Update: If you look more closely at the food bid: Arusha is claiming an avg of $120-160/person for 4 days for ~3000 people. London is claiming $115/person for 5 days for ~2000 people (in both cases: for breakfast/lunch). [Thanks for clarifying below.]

Finally, Arusha is a tourist city, on the edge of a major world nature reserve. Tourism and hospitality is the primary business of the city. Prices for events and visiting groups tend to be what you would pay at hospitality centers in any large city, independent of the national average. I have also spent time there, and it is not unusual for groups to pay $60/day for food and drink. I agree this is not appropriate for Wikimania, but if you read off a menu and multiply by 3k, as Arusha seems to have done for food, I can see where this estimate came from. –SJ talk  16:37, 1 April 2013 (UTC)

Hiya Sj, A couple of things. First, I have to point out, that unless you know the editors you mention in real life, it is debatable if they are individual editors. For example Ahmed, Faraja Roy, Yohana accounts were all created in the month of March 2013, within a week of each other to only edit this bid. [1][2][3][4] - These accounts seem to have been created to edit the bid alone. Some other accounts also show up with the same MO Special:Contributions/Wikimania_Arusha_2014, Special:Contributions/Equator_Hotel_Arusha. Besides that I only see some uninvolved editors tweaking and fixing minor things. A CU might allay some of the concerns but it doesn't bode confidence so far.

$160 per person for food is still ludicrous. London is perhaps one of the most expensive places in the world, to compare the costs and exceed them in Arusha just doesn't seem right, even if you were to go by sky-high tourist price estimate - which a local bid should circumvent. My personal opinion is that most of this is based on the London bid itself, with prices being quoted in their range, along with participant numbers and other expenses. No previous wikimania came close to either these costs or these many participant, and we have apparently 2 this year in the abnormal range.

I don't see why the bid is starting with 3k participants defying the norm. This is several times higher than what we ever had, which gives credence to my earlier theory and makes me question whatever good faith I had in the beginning. Thanks. Theo10011 (talk) 03:25, 4 April 2013 (UTC)

HelloTheo10011 (talk)I Think norms and taboos come to change with time. We can not expect to have lower numbers everyday since the Wikimedians are enrolling every minute. It is about time to influence more people into this. Everyone of us. The higher the number the better the community life here, for we will make the world a more better place in terms of information resources at it diversity. Even we when we have to negotiate the change, there should be a first time or instance and this case why not Arusha? With costing there is no rule of thumb in terms of standards in the world BUT just determined by several circumstances including economic activities, availability of food items, products etc, political stability status and London in that sense can not be as a basis for establishing costing. As has been commented by previous editor that Arusha is a tourist city and even in the country itself, Arusha has set its own niche in terms of daily living budget being higher than everywhere in the country. However Arusha is not the most expensive city neither among the top 4000 cities. Having this in mind we have been very keen on setting up the budget after a thorough negotiation with hotel owners in Arusha to meet the acceptable budget for the Wikimedians which will promote the 3K to come down here. Arusha will not only attract participants BUT also wikitravellers for it is one of the reason itself to travel. Arusha was coined by Indian meaning "Rising Sun" Fmacdaniel (talk)23:38, 4 April 2013 (UTC)

• To, SJ talk , you don’t know what is going on, the issue is not smallest of Bid team or big, the issue here is Sub Saharan Africa wonted to host Wikimania and it’s them selves who know the reasons, and without sift eyes or mouth this has been done by very potential people of Wikimedia just because Arusha is not supported to host Wikimania Conference. Am telling you that the food breakdown of our Bid was very clear of cause we were chosen the Washington 2012 Bid catering style and we used to introduce to our Bid and change the original but one of supporter of London Bid edit our bid to remove the changes and to replace the Washington Catering likely. and due to that conflict we removed and to give them a chance to look for another, we know that their intention is to confuse Wikimedia Community. Africa's intrust of Jury’s . Because even historical if you go through Bids from 2006 do you know SJ at that time you was coordinating, you know how many people was active on your, please let us think about to promote Wikimedia _Manawa|Talk^{Education First}23:49, 01 April 2013 (UTC)

  I moved several sub-pages of this bid as they were all over the place and in the interests of making the bid more presentable and keeping everything in order, it was a good idea to have them all in the right place. Unfortunately the task was far bigger than I originally thought it would be and during the process I got a little muddled - one problem I wasn't expecting was that a few pages had been created multiple times in different places, including catering. This meant I was forced to merge the pages together, and it appears I merged the older version of the catering page. I apologise for this error, but this is easily fixed - the newer version is here. Yes, I have made the personal decision as an independent Wikimedia contributor to endorse the London bid - that however has no impact on the edits I make here or elsewhere, and I have made some minor corrections to both bids in the past. I therefore hope I am misreading the above comment in regards to my intentions, as if I'm not then there has been a serious failure to assume good faith by whoever "we" is here. I strongly believe in fair play and any accusations to the contrary are wrong. I therefore ask that that the above comments be clarified or withdrawn immediately please. CT Cooper · talk 22:32, 1 April 2013 (UTC)

  Thank you for that error correction, CT, that is helpful. I think it's best to let each team clean up their own bid, as the process winds down. Please don't use this page to attack or demand apologies of one another. –SJ talk 

  Sj, thank you for your compliments. However, I didn't attack anyone and I was not demanding an apology. All I requested was a simple clarification or withdrawal for some inaccurate comments directed at me, which is far less demanding. In other circumstances I might have ignored it but when such suggestions come from the leader of a (potential) chapter with words such as "we" mixed in, it is not something I can ignore. CT Cooper · talk 11:32, 2 April 2013 (UTC)

  I'm glad to see you and Francis came to an amicable resolution below. –SJ talk  19:46, 22 April 2013 (UTC)

• Yes, –SJ talk .even Christ teach us how to love each other as the son of god as wikimedia community are friends and its my expectation to learn more from T. Cooper and even to you –SJ talk , am telling all of you that, at the time of god thinking about creation of this world the first priority was given to all of us, why don't we come together and love each other. Please SJ at this final stage of waiting jury decision we real need your support even my young brother T. Cooper I also welcome you in Africa.

_Manawa|Talk^{Education First}16:40, 23 April 2013 Thank you very much, CT Cooper • talk for understanding and apologies for mistakes as human being no one is perfect and to knew that I accept your apologies. I respect your contribution to Wikimedia since you were advised me on the creation of the first bid and I remember my commented your support to our bid, I also comment that this should remain on record for reflection of the whole process of the talk page of Wikimania 2014 Bids/Arusha. And for more clarification and being honest myself I was very disappointed with the changes which coasted more time to think about it, especially at this time of preparing for IRC meeting am also saying sorry to T.Cooper for every things happen to our side because if it couldn’t me to be engaged in the matter with lower knowledge as I also dedicate to this word the small Wikimedian of today will be more stronger tomorrow. With this opportunity am also saying sorry to all those for one reason or another were discouraged to our bid, this is for real and all things written it will be done as it is with referring you to the Catering here below. _Manawa|Talk^{Education First} 13:35, 2 April 2013 (UTC)

Main Conference
Thursday	Minimal	Planned / budgeted
Morning break	Sodas, coffee, tea $7 / person	Donuts Fruit juices Coffee + tea $10 / person
Lunch	Boxed lunch Sandwich options include beef, ham, veggie, turkey, chicken salad, tuna, hoagies, etc. + salad + chips + cookie + beverage. $15 / person	Outdoor BBQ lunch! $20 / person
Afternoon break	Sodas, coffee, tea $7 / person	Cookies + brownies Sodas, coffee, tea $10 / person
Thursday total	$29 / person	$40 / person
3000 x people (we expect all 3000 attendees to be present and eating at all times)	$87,000	$120,000
Friday
Morning break	Sodas, coffee, tea $7 / person	Danishes, muffins, etc. Fruit juices Coffee + tea $10 / person
Lunch	Boxed lunch Sandwich options include beef, ham, veggie, turkey, chicken salad, tuna, hoagies, etc. + salad + chips + cookie + beverage. $15 / person	Plated lunch $20 / person
Afternoon break	Sodas, coffee, tea $7 / person	Cookies + brownies Sodas, coffee, tea $10 / person
Friday total	$29 / person	$40 / person
3000 x people	$87,000	$120,000
Sutarday
Morning break	Sodas, coffee, tea $7 / person	Mini quiches + fruit Fruit juices Coffee + tea $10 / person
Lunch	Boxed lunch Sandwich options include beef, ham, veggie, turkey, chicken salad, tuna, hoagies, etc. + salad + chips + cookie + beverage. $15 / person	Plated lunch $20 / person
Afternoon break + Wikipedia cupcakes!	Sodas, coffee, tea $7 / person	Wikipedia cupcakes! (likely will be an in-kind donation) Sodas, coffee, tea $10 / person
Sutarday total	$29 / person	$40 / person
3000 x people	$87,000	$12,000
Sunday
Tour	Sodas, coffee, tea take away $7 / person	Danishes, muffins, etc. Fruit juices Coffee + tea take away $10 / person
Lunch	Boxed lunch for tour Sandwich options include beef, ham, veggie, turkey, chicken salad, tuna, hoagies, etc. + salad + chips + cookie + beverage. $15 / person	Plated lunch $20 / person
Tour	Sodas, coffee, tea $7 / person	Cookies + brownies Sodas, coffee, tea $10 / person
Sunday total	$29 / person	$40 / person
3000 x people	$87,000	$120,000
Combined
Subtotal	$68,400	$89,340
Service charge (22%)	$348,000	$480,000

• Note: The main conference food is catered by the Ngurdoto Mountain Lodge, which we think is unavoidable but still can look at every option. Also, they might be willing to work with us some on the prices. If we spend $348,000 on catering via the Tanzania convantion center, the venue fee is definitely be waived.

Thank you for your clarification and apologies. I will not make any further corrections to either bids, but the issue of some pages been duplicated really needed to be resolved or there could have been a lot of confusion now or in the future - people may have read the old catering page by accident for example. As you say, I have followed this bid from the very start and I while I have not been directly involved in putting things together I have tried to keep it out of certain pitfalls. Regardless of the results of the bidding process, I think yourself and your team should be proud of the effort you have put in and you should come along to Wikimania 2013 in Hong Kong, as there is a lot to be learned there. Perseverance is important when bidding for something like Wikimania - the current London bid is the UK's 4th attempt at hosting Wikimania; the first three lost out to other countries. Best of luck. CT Cooper · talk 11:32, 2 April 2013 (UTC)

• Again to Theo10011 (talk) may I pleased you to explain about $600,000 because I don't understand what exactingly you want to point out, is too much money or fewer and according to your statements of deletion of our pages for several times that is a matter of procedures and legal manner and I thanks all users who deleted our pages because through them we are now more strong secondly at this stage we have agreed to maintain all information's provided to the Jury and public interest to avoid misinformation. about the team we are now 16 members pending committee responsible with conference. my dear here important is to manage the Conference successfully and remember that the small Wikimedians of today will be bigger tomorrow. and am sorry to say this some deletion of our pages was done for the beneficiary of other side, no more definition, my self am an IP activist for a number of years attended more than 95 International Conferences Seminar and Symposiums so am very much aware of copyright,trademarks and pants as I told you before Theo, it's your time to support Africa on this matter and god may bless, I know the challenge I have and that's why am saying let the Jury decide on the rally between the colony country and colonialist country in other means no possibility of withdrawing our bid also I thanks all those who support our bid. _Manawa|Talk^{Education First} 19:50 26 march 2013 (UTC)

Process status

Hello all,

I wanted to give both bids and anyone interested in the process an update.

The jury is continuing to post questions for the bids this week and next. The bid teams are welcome to (and encouraged!) to keep refining their proposals during this time period; any major changes should be explained on the talk page. For the bidders, please note that the answers posted on the talk page form an important part of the jury's deliberations (as well as an important mechanism for refining and improving the bids; we are hoping it will be a dialog). For this reason, everyone is welcome to participate in the talk pages, but it's also important to know who "speaks for" the bids -- so please note if you giving an "official answer" for a bid. We all recognize that many of these questions (especially about the "core" parts of the conference like budget, infrastructure, and team) are complex and difficult to answer; thanks to everyone on both sides for being patient!

IRC meetings with the jury and bid teams are now scheduled. These are also open to anyone interested (though if there are lots of participants we will prioritize questions from the jury). These are scheduled with Arusha on April 6th and London on April 7th at 16:00 UTC, in #wikimania. If the time or channel changes we'll update everyone. Here is a quick guide to IRC for those new to using it.

After these meetings the jury will deliberate and may have more questions as well, or specific suggestions for the bids.

Please let me/us know if you have any questions about process. phoebe | talk 23:40, 25 March 2013 (UTC) (non-voting moderator)

Hey,phoebetalk thank you very much for your update we'll consider accordingly, _Manawa|Talk^{Education First}20:03 26, march 2013 (UTC)

As a quick correction, the London bid's meeting will be at 16:00 UTC on 6 April and the Arusha bid's will provisionally be at 16:00 UTC on 7 April. Sorry for the confusion.

Francis, if you would prefer, we could move the bid later - the Jury are keen to do it at 19:00 UTC instead if that works for you? James F. (talk) 15:42, 27 March 2013 (UTC)

Thank you very much James F. (talk), for keeping us up to date, Sunday is much better just leave as it's on 7th and I have already informed my team's due to this changes. _Manawa|Talk^{Education First} 27:28 26, March 2014 (UTC)

Accessibility

How differently-abled accessible are the hotels and venues being discussed for this bid? --User:Varnent 16:16, 20 April 2013 (UTC)

Hiy,User:Varnent, every things are in control and some of potential hotels are sponsors of the conference if Arusha chosen. the head of legal department hon. Salim Abubakar is now busy preparing contracts to Hotels, Conference Venue, Transporters, Scout association who're volunteering to the conference, Conference Sponsors, Performers and all related partners of the conference. _Manawa|Talk^{Education First} 11:57, 22 April 2013

I believe Varnent is talking about accessibility for attendees who have (e.g.) difficulty seeing, hearing, or using stairs. –SJ talk  21:51, 22 April 2013 (UTC)

Yes, I was referring to access to things like wheelchair ramps, sign-language interpreters, hotels accommodating for differently-abled Wikimedians, etc. Thank you SJ for clarifying. :) --Varnent (talk)^(COI) 04:41, 23 April 2013 (UTC)

Hello,--Varnent (talk)^(COI). I back to you again to clarify on your topic, the Accessibility of environments to disability people regardless of un being indicated in our bid before is unbeatable and to prove this visit here http://www.thengurdotomountainlodge.com then see the hospitality, at this hotel there’s 8 carts carrying five passengers each, wheelchair,even the Tanzania Convention centre was built with requirements and we decided to accommodate all disability people nearby the conference venue and all this services is available. The bid team had a meeting today regarding the new issues which was not in our mind which is the sign language interpreters, the team has agreed to add six sign language interpreters. _Manawa|Talk^{Education First}, 21:10, April 2013

Updates to the bid?

Could you please summarize any updates made to the bid since the start of April? Thank you, –SJ talk  21:51, 22 April 2013 (UTC)

A short summary of Wikimania 2014/Arusha

On behalf of my colleagues Bid team, Government officials who supported our movements and myself no more opportunity of thanking them but is to say something on this talk page, I’ also thanks all Wikimedia Community on their completing of their obligation in one or more reasons with all challenges happened during the bid process to end. As a human being soil created by god, am not perfect even my thinking capacity is limited, and everything I did on mind was to boost the awareness of Wikimedia and its project sisters such as Wikipedia “ect” `and the end of a day to help increasing a number of users in my country, East Africa and Sub Saharan Africa. It’s my hope that the Jury committee will consider on organizing manner and not technical process as at the end what is needed is success of the conference itself.

• Update of the Bid

With this short summary which looks on important issues we added more issues like a photo of the late Jomo Kenyata the first President of Kenya, to be one of Sponsors high level as some Institution shown the interest of becoming sponsor. Also in considering with opinions given by Wikimedian community to reduce a number of expected participants of the conference from 3000 to 1500, we were decided to main with the planed number of 3000 participants because that was a real target to achieve at the conference because it seemed to be fear of achieving the target and if it happen that the possibility of a lack of money. Due to all of this a doubt our team has arranged everything to go as planned, the conference expenditure is $1,250,372.00/ Tshs, and 2,000,595,200 apart of this amount we expect to raise $ 855,000.00 from sponsorship also we expect some revenue from wiki participants and non wiki participants. Otherwise with a number of sponsors we have we can do any to make the wikimwnia 2014 successfully than ever has been done since the Wikimania conference started in 2005 to date and we have plan and we obliged to make it success.

• Opportunity to Wikimedia in 2014

During this process I did some extra efforts to make sure that every things possible and I was succeeded to convince my government to support our efforts, am proud to say, if there is a time of getting support since Wikimedia International Conference of Wikimania was established in 2005 to date was this year where a strong support were promised by the Government of the United Republic of Tanzania. Lastly, it’s my humble submission that Wikimania 2014 Arusha is the right choice._Manawa|Talk^{Education First}, 12:52 28 April 2013 (UTC)

Well done and well tried.

Personally I have very mixed feelings about the results. On the positive side London won and my commute will be very short (plus I won't have to miss my wife). On the other hand it will be masses of work!!! Seriously though it is important that Wikimania comes to Africa before too long and it was very brave of you to make a bid. I hope you will come to Wikimania London and I will buy you a consolatory drink. Jon Davies WMUK (talk) 13:39, 2 May 2013 (UTC)

• Thank you very much,Jon Davies WMUK (talk), actually I don't regret for London to become a bid winner with hope of getting support in 2015._Manawa|Talk^{Education First} 17:46 2, may 2013 (UTC)

I agree that it was a good attempt and you should be applauded for that. I also agree that having a Wikimania in Africa (ideally in one of the many African countries that have fewer legal barriers for Wikimedians) is an exciting goal that I hope can be accomplished sooner rather than later. --Varnent (talk)^(COI) 16:46, 7 May 2013 (UTC)

Please keep this work and gain experience from the next Wikimania to resubmit this bid. You guys definetly put a lot of efforts into it and it shows, don't give up. Thanks, Amqui (talk) 20:36, 7 May 2013 (UTC) Thank you, Amqui (talk)It's my hope that you'll support our bid in 2015, also we can discuss at the next conference.

_Manawa|Talk^{Education First} 9:40, 8 may 2013 (UTC)