Talk:Wikimania 2013 bids/Naples (archive)

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The local Wikimedia chapter is not supporting the candidature. Wikimedia Italia held its general assembly 3rd of December 2011 and rejected the proposal of being part of the local organizing commettee. --Xaura 18:00, 11 December 2011 (UTC)

I’m a bit confused and I can’t understand why. Could we have some details ? Cdlt, VIGNERON * ^discut. 10:04, 25 January 2012 (UTC)

Sure. Ferdinando Scala, tue leader of this bid, asked WMI board to support wikimania in Naples. WMI board let the general assembly answer this question, since without members support won't be an interesting activity for our chapter.
GA reject the proposal due to:

• lack of interest (most of the staff is unknown to us)
• not so much time available (GA took place in early December) to have a strong bid
• not so clear expertise in organizing not for-profit events (which could means have a narrow budget, work with volunteers, etc.)

Other WMI members could refine these reasons.

Frieda 13:41, 25 January 2012 (UTC)

Further to this discussion, and owed to the fact that, according to the Bid's rules, it is not mandatory that a local chapter supports the candidature of a town, the organizing group decided to put further the candidature, which is now official. On our side, we are displeased that WMI decided not to support us, but we strongly believe we have the possibility to organize a good event. When the candidature assessment process will be performed, we hope to demonstrate our point and suitability.--Ferdinando Scala 13:04, 26 January 2012 (UTC)

Ferdinando is right and this would all be flawless, if Wikimedia was not a community - and that community wasn't ignoring or dismissing the whole thing. Oops. --Elitre 13:13, 26 January 2012 (UTC)

It is not a question of being right or wrong, but to be rightful or not. Just to be explanatory:

Q) Are the rules for the bid asking as a mandatory rule that the local chapter would be supporting the candidature?
A) No, if it would have been so, we would have been forced to stop the candidature after the negative vote of WMI.

Q) Is therefore in the right of the involved local team to push further the candidature, even without WMI's support?
A) Yes.

Q) Is Wikimedia Italy entirely representative of the whole Wikipedians' community in Italy?
A) No, the current members of WMI are about 600, while the registered Italian Wikipedians are 711.620 (it means that WMI represents the 0,0008% of the Italian Wikipedia community) and voters in the Assembly were 30 in total. Furthermore, some of the most important moments in the Italian Wikipedia community life, like the encyclopedia's obscuring for some days in response to the possibility that a law against Internet freedom (DDL intercettazioni) was approved, a protest recently replicated by en.wiki against SOPA, have seen the Italian wikipedians as protagonists, and not WMI.

Q) Has a group of wikipedians (almost none of them part of WMI) asked WMI for support to organize Wikimania 2013 in Naples?
A) Yes, but the support was refused owed to the abovementioned reasons, which Frieda correctly explained. At that very moment, WMI set itself away from the organization, with heartfelt displeasure of the local team, which esteems that it could be an important moment for involving more wikipedians in the Wikimedia movement. But this has nothing to do with the right to get the candidature further. In addition to this, it is important to clarify that it was not in discussion the suitability of Naples as a place to organize an international event (the next America's Cup World Series regattas and the Universal Forum of Cultures will be organised there between late 2012 and 2013); but the fact that WMI judged not to have the organizational strenght to substain the candidature. The organizing team hopes to demonstrate better.

In conclusion, in this moment WMI is out of the candidature process, while the Local Team is in the full right to pursue it, according to the bid's rules. We hope to demonstrate a good organizational potential, and we esteem that we are following the Wiki claim "Be bold". If we'll be judged to be suitable, we'll be happy to host wikipedians in Italy and bring force to the movement (and to WMI); if not, we'll be happy to have participated.--Ferdinando Scala 14:43, 26 January 2012 (UTC)

I tried to understand - leaving apart the general "know how" in organizing quite large events - how much the proposing team might be involved with Wikimedia projects (e.g. meta wiki) and aware of past Wikimanias mechanisms. The answer has not been positive to me, also considering that nobody of the proposing team bothered to contact any Italian participating to one of the previous conferences while considering the submission. --M/ 18:13, 26 January 2012 (UTC)

We'll not enter in any discussion about this here, but we will explain our individual skills, structure and all the rest to the jury, which if we are not wrong, is the only relevant subject as of now.--Ferdinando Scala 18:23, 26 January 2012 (UTC)

The support of the chapters

I can assure that the moving in the official bids doesn't involve any support of the chapter. It's sufficient to have a minimum of "organizing" team (and I would add "local" team). It's sufficient to read carefully the email of Thomas Goldammer of 24th January to know what the jury is asking exactly. Any other comment is useless or inopportune if there is no intent to damage the candidature.

In that email is not required a minimum of participants in the local team, it's not required to have active wikipedians, no required support by the chapters to move the candidature.

IMO the support of the local chapter is not required because it's silly to have a support now if the board of WM IT could change in December 2012 and with them also the strategies. Some other towns, who have confirmed their bids officially, have some chapters members in the team, but there is not an official support of the whole chapter.

This statement seems to me like that of WM IT before the strike of it.wikipedia.org when they announced "officially" to don't participate in the strike. The strike has been done by the community, who has considered the statement of WM IT as unimportant, and after WM IT has had to manage the medias explaining more their disengagement from the event than the event itself. In some cases it's better to fall silent and to wait until when an "official" statement is really required. It seems really strange to me that a chapter asks to the General Assembly to vote the participation to an event 18 months before the event if the event is not arised directly from the chapter. The proposal has been made by a local group and it seems to me correct that at the start there is an initial suspicion, but I don't know how a chapter can choice on the basis of a short presentation. Neither the jury can decide without a detailed presentation. So I suppose thate there was only a brief evaluation ot the proposal and this can justify that more or less the 50% of the Italian General Assembly has decided to don't vote (I have not been present but I have read the minute). --Ilario 19:54, 27 January 2012 (UTC)

The General Assembly has not the right to make up minds about partecipating in an event, we only voted about organizing it, we will not. If someone else want to do it they'll show "individual skills, structure and all the rest to the jury". --Xaura 17:29, 29 January 2012 (UTC)

Staying on topic

As a voting member of the Wikimania 2013 jury, I have a few opinions about the discussions above:

• The lack of involvement of the Wikimedia Italy chapter has no bearing on whether or not this bid will be given serious consideration.
• Assessments of how much community support a bid does or does not have are premature at this point.
• Discussion of unrelated topics like the Wikipedia blackout is not likely to be helpful to the most pressing tasks, which would be refining and evaluating the bid.
• In my opinion (and others may disagree), those working toward a successful bid should feel free to exercise their judgment in archiving discussion topics that are not helpful toward that goal.

-Pete F 18:12, 29 January 2012 (UTC)

I agree with Pete, I mean, it's noboby's fault if really anyone can submit a bid to Wikimania, although their only Wiki(m/p)edian experiences are writing articles, this is not the right place to discuss it. --Elitre 23:05, 29 January 2012 (UTC)

Thank you Pete, I appreciate your point very much. I feel there is some confusion here about what is the real focus of discussion. In our opinion, but we may be mistaken, what is relevant for organizing an event whatsoever is the inherent and acquired capabilities of the proposing group and its partners/endorsing bodies. In particular, we feel it is important to have a clear understanding about how to provide hosting, feeding, connecting, travel and congressual facilities and services for 700 persons from all over the world, for roughly a week. This implies to have project management and financial skills in addition to a deep understanding of the proposed location's capabilities and limits. We feel this will be the jury's focus, and we'll strive to demonstrate our suitability for the task. If not, again, we'll be happy just for having participated, since participation and collaboration are founding values of the Wiki movement.--Ferdinando Scala 09:03, 30 January 2012 (UTC)