Talk:Web2Cit/Archive/Early adopters

Object names

@Pppery: Thank you very much for the corrections you made and for configuring translation for this page! I have a comment regarding the object names. Key names in configuration files are fixed and it's perfect that we include them inside tvars. However, object names (such as Template, TemplateField, Procedure, etc) do not appear in configuration files. I gave them names to make it easier to understand the file formats, and I think it's OK if some translators choose to change these to something that makes sense in their languages ("objetos Plantilla" instead of "objetos Template" in Spanish, for example). If that's OK, I'll just go ahead and remove tvars around these names. Thanks! Diegodlh (talk) 19:25, 1 March 2022 (UTC)

Fine with me. I didn't read the page super closely (as it's a huge page) and from a quick glance object "Template" looked like an untranslatable string even though it wasn't. Determine when to use tvars isn't an exact science, and many translation admins do it differently. * Pppery * _{it has begun} 20:06, 1 March 2022 (UTC)

Finished editing

@Pppery: Thanks again for your help with configuring translation for this page. I apologize for having introduced new sections after requesting that translation was enabled. I should have finished by now, and no further major changes should be introduced in the short term (maybe just some small additions or corrections). User:Scann will probably be translating the page to Spanish now in the weeks to come. Scann, please follow these instructions in case you need to make changes to the source English version. Thank you! Diegodlh (talk) 21:08, 2 March 2022 (UTC)

There's nothing wrong with what you did, actually, as it meant I had a chance to work incrementally at optimizing translate markup rather than having to tackle a huge page all at once. And I'll be around to mark any further changes to the English version for translation (although as a general rule I'm reluctant to mark changes that make translations outdated unless the English content has been significantly changed). * Pppery * _{it has begun} 22:15, 2 March 2022 (UTC)

Draft translation test section

@Pppery: Hi! I've just added a draft "Translation tests" section. I will continue working on it as I continue with development, but I wanted to start writing something. I haven't marked it for translation yet, and I added a "work in progress" legend at the top. Is this OK? Should I have proceeded differently? Just let me know if there's anything I should change. Thanks! Diegodlh (talk) 14:28, 2 June 2022 (UTC)

Looks fine to me. * Pppery * _{it has begun} 14:52, 2 June 2022 (UTC)

Archiving

Dear @Pppery. The Web2Cit project grant is coming to its end and I'm trying to leave the general and technical documentation as organized as possible for future personal and community reference. As part of this process, we restructured the homepage (as you already know) and created new documents in a Web2Cit/Docs/ subdirectory.

We requested that translation be enabled on this Early adopters guideline because we wanted to help an international community of Web2Cit early adopters understand it, but as it happened with our homepage it turned out that it was too early to do so. I first would like to apologize again for the problems that this early request caused and is still causing.

Although most information remains accurate, some information is no longer appropriate for most users, because easier ways of using Web2Cit are now available. As a result, we wanted to copy the contents from some sections to separate pages, and archive this guideline. Namely:

• "Domain configuration files" section: copied to Web2Cit/Docs/Storage
• "Valid values" section: copied to Web2Cit/Docs/Templates
• "Translation fields" section: copied to Web2Cit/Docs/Fields
• Part of the "Debug endpoint" section: copied to Web2Cit/Docs/Server

Note that although the content copied will likely remain mostly unchanged, the pages they would be copied to will include other contents. What do you think would be the best way to preserve the work done by you, who added the translation markup, and by the user(s) who contributed the Korean translation?

To preserve the markup, it occurs to me that I could simply keep the <translate> and <tvar> tags (and remove the <!--T:...> tags). I guess these would be helpful if translation is enabled on these pages in the future.

But what would be the best thing to do with the Korean translation? Would it make sense to enable translation on the new pages just for the sections holding the copied content? Would it be possible to link the Korean translations this way? Would this mean too much effort from your side?

Alternatively, I thought of adding a note at the top of the copied sections on the new pages indicating that a (possibly outdated) Korean version of that section is available on the archived Early adopters guideline. What do you think about this? I guess this would integrate poorly if translation is enabled on these pages in the future, though.

I would very much appreciate it if you could let me know what you think would be the best option here, and what I can do to make the process as easy as possible for you and other administrators, if possible respecting the work already done by translators, given that it was our responsibility not to foresee that requesting translation at such an early stage would result in these inconveniences.

Thank you very much for all your help with this, and I hope this will be the last request regarding this problem we caused.

Diegodlh (talk) 19:30, 8 September 2022 (UTC)

The best solution would be to prepare the new pages for translation and then manually copy the Korean translations from the old page to the new page. But that's of course a lot of work (inherently). Pols12 probably knows how to handle this situation better than I do. * Pppery * _{it has begun} 20:16, 8 September 2022 (UTC)

Unfortunately, I haven’t any better solution to propose. I think your process is the best: copying exact wikitext (including translate and tvar tags), cleaning markers (T:x comments), marking the new page for translation (leaving all the remaining content out of translate tags). Then, since the new units will be strictly identical to original ones, the translation memory will let us import translations easily (with a 100% content matching). -- Pols12 (talk) 21:23, 8 September 2022 (UTC)

Thank you both for your help. I've already copied the contents from this Early adopters page to the corresponding new pages as indicated above, removing only the <!--T:\d+--> tags. Let me know in case you need that I copy the text with them instead, to help you identify the translation units. Note that all text between <translate> except one single case (in the text copied to Web2Cit/Docs/Storage) where the block spanned between two sections and I removed two translation units (namely T:196 and T:10) from the beginning. Let me know if it would be easier for you if I copied the full <translate> block instead and remove the extra sentences later, once the move has been completed.

I won't make changes to the target pages within the <translate> blocks until you have finished with the move. Let me know if I can do anything else to help you with this. Once again, thank you very much!! Diegodlh (talk) 16:04, 9 September 2022 (UTC)

I have completed copying Korean translations. However, I wonder wether these pages should be located on MediaWiki.org Help space. If so, we’re still able to move them. Else, you can safely edit them and ping us when they will be ready to be finaly marked for translation. 🙂 -- Pols12 (talk) 21:07, 9 September 2022 (UTC)

Thank you so much!! It looks great. I sincerely thank you for your kind and prompt assistance. As I understand from what you said, I can edit those pages, even the content within <translate> tags (following the rules for editing content marked for translation in these cases). Correct?

As one final step, could you please archive this page to Web2Cit/Archive/Early adopters?

Regarding whether Web2Cit documentation should be located on MediaWiki.org Help space, I'm not sure. On the one hand, Web2Cit may in theory be used from other wikis using the Citoid extension. However, Web2Cit behavior depends on configuration files collaboratively defined by the Wikmedia community and saved to meta.wikimedia.org (note that alternative locations were considered with our Advisory Board, but we ended up using metawiki; I can try and locate those discussions if needed). That it, it's a tool potentially used from non-Wikimedia wikis, but whose behavior is defined by the Wikimedia community (Edit: see phab:T305574 for discussions around support for different configuration storages).

In any case, if it is decided in the future that the documentation should be moved to MediaWiki.org, would that be more tedious than doing it now?

Thank you!! Diegodlh (talk) 21:43, 9 September 2022 (UTC)

• Yes, you can edit everything, we’ll handle translate markup then.
• I have filled a Phabricator to request the page move.
• We’ll find a technical solution if the content need later to be moved to MediaWiki.org. The main issue is licensing: the Mediawiki.org license policy is to place everty help page in public domain (CC-0) to be easily massively shared. Even keeping it on Meta-Wiki, you may consider to also use CC-0 license.

-- Pols12 (talk) 12:38, 10 September 2022 (UTC)

Thanks, @Pols12. I hadn't thought of the license incompatibility. I could check, but I think that I'm currently the only contributor to these documentation pages. Any suggestions regarding how I could indicate that those pages are under a CC-0 license on metawiki? Diegodlh (talk) 14:36, 12 September 2022 (UTC)

You may add {{CC0 content}} to relevant pages, and {{editnotice|text={{CC0 content}}}} to Template:Editnotices/Group/Web2Cit/Docs too. -- Pols12 (talk) 22:12, 12 September 2022 (UTC)

In case my edits are sufficient to be copyrightable, I am also fine with releasing them under CC0. Note however that the Korean translation presumably has a separate copyright, and translators need to be made aware of the CC0 licensing somehow which I'm not sure if edit notices will do. * Pppery * _{it has begun} 22:16, 12 September 2022 (UTC)

While trying to figure out how we could deal with licensing of translations, I wanted to know how MediaWiki.org had done, and ended up in the page that explains the decision of posting all content on the Help: namespace as CC0. After reading this, I'm not sure the Web2Cit documentation should ever be part of this Help: namespace. For example, it says "The goal is to provide a set of pages, which can be copied into a fresh wiki installation or included in the MediaWiki distribution. This will include basic user information ... It should focus on what users want and not explain other functions". Not even the Citoid extension documentation is included in this Help: namespace. So, for now, I think we should be OK keeping the Web2Cit documentation as CC and if we ever need to move it to MediaWiki just leave it outside the Help: namespace. I wonder if my reasoning makes any sense. Thanks! Diegodlh (talk) 19:20, 16 September 2022 (UTC)