Talk:No open proxies/Archives/2021

The rationale is wrong

The statement “Because MediaWiki (the wiki software) depends on IP addresses for administrator intervention against abuse, open proxies allow users to completely circumvent administrators.” is wrong plain and simple.

The software use IP addresses as one of several mechanisms for intervention against abuse. For the software there are no real difference for a registered user having a dynamic IP address and a user arriving through the TOR system. Even for an anonymous user there are no real difference. In fact, it is easier to block an anonymous user arriving through TOR than with one that has a dynamic IP address.

In short this policy builds on a rationale that is pure b*****it. It is most likely written by someone that hasn't the slightest clue how neither the software operates or how TOR operates.

At least stop blocking registered users from using TOR! — Jeblad 13:54, 3 July 2020 (UTC)

Agreed. If a user is logged in with their registered account, then their edits are trackable on Wikimedia projects, regardless of the IP address used. Furthermore, using VPN/proxy/tunneling services protects registered users who are using unsafe networks (such as public Wifi networks). We should encourage people to use safer internet practices.

The rationale for IP/VPN blocks only makes sense in the context of anonymous edits. Here is a logical program that would resolve this issue:

##EDIT PAGE

IF anonymous THEN cross-reference with banned IP/VPN list, reject editing if match found.

IF logged in as registered user THEN don't check banned IP/VPN list, permit editing if user not banned.

This is a better system. — JKVeganAbroad (talk) 14:27, 11 August 2021 (UTC)

These types of arguments always miss the point that anyone can create lots of accounts. Some of the worst users have had many hundreds of them, and some have hundreds still lined up for use. Accounts are cheap. We frequently see banned users, vandals, spammers, etc, creating dozens of accounts on open proxies, and then getting those accounts serially banned while rotating through dozens of open proxies. So the problem with the method above is that you don't know if a registered account belongs to a banned user. IP block exemption is a better way to deal with this problem. -- zzuuzz ^(talk) 08:29, 18 August 2021 (UTC)

Ip address issues

Please why is my ip address been blocked on all wiki pages. I can't edit again what have done wrong. Please I need answers. Alhaj Darajaati (talk) 17:47, 21 February 2021 (UTC)

A proposal

I think we should change the way proxies on Wikimedia work with two ways...

1. Allow proxies to edit Wikimedia, but at the first sign of misuse block them

1.  Support I think this is a good idea since some people might not be able to not use proxies. Plus, some people want privacy and use a VPN. 71.172.112.82

2. Instead of hard blocking proxies, soft block them.

1. Neutral Per reason above, both why and not why I want this. 71.172.112.82 18:40, 19 November 2021 (UTC)

Reason why edition is blocked from registered user not created using an open proxy ?

Hi. I was curious about some things, so I logged in via TOR. I was, since a long time, aware of blocking of TOR, including for Wikipedia edition. However, I'm curious of the reason why it is required to ask an administrator for some change to allow editing via an open proxy with a valid account (that is, why does hardblock exist in the first place (I mean, outside of blocking DOS, which is unrelated)) ?

Asking this, since (unrelated to Wikipedia), my email provider once blocked me from sending mail from my school, even with a valid account (and having remembered I also created another account using TOR a while ago). I want to understand the motivation of blocking registered user based on IP.

Marius851000 (talk) 09:13, 16 December 2021 (UTC)

@Marius851000: Several things happening here

1. Knowledgeable and respected Wikimedia moderators claim that many bad actors would exploit Tor if we had no restrictions on its use
2. There is documentation for how and why we have restrictions, but it is much more messy, disjointed, and hard to follow than typical Wikimedia documentation
3. There might never have been a big conversation about this, or if there were, it was when the Wikimedia Foundation's budget was US$200+ million less a year. A new conversation is timely
4. Someone would need to put the labor in to start that conversation either themselves or with help from a privacy advocacy community group. I do not think the expertise and will exists in the wiki community to manage this all ourselves.

Others may have other perspectives, but these are mine. I would like to support a new discussion to get more safe access to Tor editing to more wiki editors, but we do not have the mass of conversation participants yet. Blue Rasberry (talk) 04:09, 19 December 2021 (UTC)