Talk:List of articles every Wikipedia should have/Archives/2016

The list should be more focused (in mathematics)

Catch-all term like "algebra" is vital for wikipedias as a category, but not as an article. We could compare wikipedias of different languages better by articles of more focused, clearly defined topics. I propose a new list for mathematics:

(General)

1. Mathematics

(Algebra)

1. Linear algebra
2. Complex number
3. Fermat's Last Theorem
4. Abel–Ruffini theorem

(Geometry)

1. Area
2. Angle
3. Pythagorean theorem
4. Coordinate system
5. Symmetry
6. Möbius strip
7. Euler characteristicPolyhedron

(Analysis)

1. Limit
2. Infinity
3. Differential equation
4. Logarithm
5. Trigonometric functions
6. Pi
7. Taylor series

(Statistics)

1. Normal distribution
2. Probability theory

(Logic / others)

1. Boolean algebra
2. Mathematical proof
3. Set theory
4. Function

The following is the list of changes:

• Remove: algebra, arithmetic, mathematical analysis, numerical analysis, equation, geometry, trigonometry, number, number theory, statistics.
• Add: Fermat's Last Theorem (Q132469), Abel-Ruffini theorem (Q657482), Möbius strip (Q226843), polyhedra (Q172937), limit (Q177239), Taylor series (Q131187), trigonometric functions (Q93344), normal distribution (Q133871), probability theory (Q5862903), Boolean algebra (Q173183)

Other candidates of consideration might be:

1. Negative numbers
2. Prime numbers
3. Quadratic equation
4. Fourier transform
5. Fundamental theorem of calculus
6. Second-order logic
7. Gödel's incompleteness theorems
8. Markov process
9. Lambda calculus
10. Graph theory

--Rollingfrenzy (talk) 09:11, 30 January 2015 (UTC)

Sounds reasonable in gerenal, but are you sure that highly technical topics like Fermat's Last Theorem and Abel–Ruffini theorem are suitable for a list like this? — Yerpo ^Eh? 18:50, 31 January 2015 (UTC)

I agree with the overall reorganization, but not most of the topic substitutions. In particular, I think it's worth keeping the major divisions of mathematics, algebra, mathematical analysis, and geometry, as well as the elementary mathematical concepts arithmetic, equation, and number; and somehow I just can't part with trigonometry or statistics, either. (Full disclosure: I have a degree in statistics.) The items in bold are so marked in the List itself, meaning they are considered "top priority" articles, so their removal should not be undertaken lightly. This leaves me two substitutions to make: I could let number theory and numerical analysis go and add normal distribution (central to the study of probability and statistics) and parallel postulate (one of the most important statements in the history of mathematics). - dcljr (talk) 02:37, 1 February 2015 (UTC)

The word arithmetic is too ambiguous and does not have clearly corresponding word in some languages (in Japanese, we usually say "四則演算", literally "the mathematical operations of the four rules", since distinction between calculations, mathematical operations and arithmetics is not clear) while individual operation like addition has. In many languages, the article for "arithmetics" seems to be merely a collection of the description of the four basic arithmetics. Some of the major divisions may be worth keeping, but we should care about how the article should look like and examine whether we really need that content. I also think this list should provide a list of good sample points of wikipedia, rather than the complete coverage of the basic mathematics.

Parallel postulate. Hmm, it sounds worth considering ... (replacing Boolean algebra, maybe) --Rollingfrenzy (talk) 19:13, 3 February 2015 (UTC)

Regarding arithmetic, Wikidata lists 117 Wikipedia languages having corresponding articles, including ja:算術. I can't say whether that's a good Japanese title for this concept or not, but it is one of 2 terms listed in one of my English–Japanese dictionaries under "mathematics". [g] Note that the Wikidata item is about the "elementary branch of mathematics", not just the four operations. If the existing Wikiepdia articles are so limited, they need expanding. As for "complete coverage of the basic mathematics", that is clearly not what this list is aiming for, nor is that even a realistic goal. I see it more as a collection of major topics that can serve to point out (as they are expanded and wikified) what other articles are worth writing. Also, most of them are the kinds of articles that would naturally split off into more specific, related articles as they develop. In other words, they serve as "seeds" that can help a small Wikipedia to grow. When viewed in this light, many of the topics I cite above as things I wouldn't want to lose could serve in this role nicely, whereas more narrowly-tailored articles about specific theorems, say, would not necessarily function the same way. - dcljr (talk) 03:33, 4 February 2015 (UTC)

I think we should take balance of the divisions, the theorems, the (proof) systems, and the object of studies in mathematics. In this point of view, wikipedias should have some articles on some of the most famous theorems, IMHO. (Pythagorean theorem is rather a definition of Euclidean norms in modern mathematics.) I picked up FLT and Abel-Ruffini's because they are famous and easy to understand and describe while difficult to prove. (Maybe one of the two (Abel-Ruffini's?) should be replaced by a famous theorem which is easy to understand and prove, but I just couldn't illustrate a good example.)--Rollingfrenzy (talk) 19:13, 3 February 2015 (UTC)

Doesn't Pythagorean theorem play that role already? - dcljr (talk) 03:38, 4 February 2015 (UTC)

Structure change first

We can continue to talk about possible topic substitutions, but I don't see any disagreement about the basic idea of restructuring the mathematics portion of the list along the lines outlined above. Might I suggest the following scheme using the current set of topics?

1. Mathematics
2. Arithmetic
   1. Logarithm
   2. Number
   3. Number theory
3. Algebra
   1. Complex number
   2. Equation
   3. Linear algebra
4. Geometry
   1. Angle
   2. Area
   3. Coordinate system
   4. Pi
   5. Pythagorean theorem
   6. Symmetry
   7. Trigonometry
5. Mathematical analysis
   1. Differential equation
   2. Numerical analysis
6. Probability and statistics
   1. Statistics
7. Logic and foundations
   1. Function (mathematics)
   2. Infinity
   3. Mathematical proof
   4. Set theory

Some of these things are kind of hard to place, so I welcome other suggestions. - dcljr (talk) 03:33, 4 February 2015 (UTC)

• I agree the structure change--Wolfch (talk) 01:40, 4 March 2015 (UTC)
• I mostly agree with dcljr in first considering the structure. Concerning the possible changes, I think that the present list is not bad, but if it has to be more "focused" then perhaps I would replace Arithmetic, Number theory and Set theory by Zero, Derivative and Set (mathematics). With these changes, I would rename section 2: Numbers. --Txebixev (talk) 13:03, 16 March 2015 (UTC)

I've gone ahead and made the structure change exactly as I proposed above. Further discussion is, of course, welcome… - dcljr (talk) 03:16, 6 February 2016 (UTC)

Wikidata Q15645384 and Q12106 (Wheat)

Please consider change d:Q12106 with d:Q15645384 in this list. Currently, none of the "big" Wikipedias doesn't have this article. (very similar problem with banana, apple etc.)--C3r4 (talk) 14:25, 6 February 2016 (UTC)

 Support There is a user on Wikidata who separated the taxon Triticum d:Q12106 and the cereal d:Q15645384. I think that in this list the cereal would be much more properly than the botanical genus. --Holder (talk) 06:44, 11 February 2016 (UTC)

 Support Wheat is listed as "Foodstuffs" instead of botanical.--Wolfch (talk) 08:02, 12 February 2016 (UTC)

Catholic Church

I'm new to wikidata and meta, and I need your help with the following issue:

"Catholic Church" is clearly the odd one in "Specific religions", as it refers to a church (an organisation), and not a religion like every other item in that section.

This makes good sense in the context of enwiki, where en:Catholic Church describes both the church and its doctrine, i.e. [Roman] Catholicism. At the same time, en:Catholicism describes one of the en:Four Marks of the Church, which applies to most christian churches, and starts with a caveat: "This sense is to be distinguished from the use of these words to refer to the Roman Catholic Church..."

In other languages -- and particularly in ruwiki, where I'm coming from -- the two meanings of Catholicism are expressed with different terms. Thus, the Russian interwiki of en:Catholicism came to describe the doctrine of the [Roman] Catholic Church; the Russian interwiki of en:Catholic Church -- the church itself and its organisation; and a third article is for the catholicity as one of the en:Four Marks of the Church.

Now, our question is, how can we align that with WP:HAVE? Naturally, we want our main article on [Roman] Catholicism to be on the list; the Russian article on Catholic Church is essentially a subarticle of Catholicism. At the same time, we want to preserve the interwiki between en:Catholic Church and its Russian counterpart, since the subjects (though not the scope) of the two articles are the same.

Looking at wikidata, Catholicism "has parts" Catholic Church and Old Catholic Church, but none of the other catholic churches in the sense of the en:Four Marks of the Church -- in particular, not en:Orthodox Catholic Church. This seems to imply that Q1841 "Catholicism" stands for the second meaning of the term, i.e. the doctrine of the [Roman] Catholic Church, -- and not the one described at en:Catholicism. I don't know if there exists a wikidata entry for the other meaning of catholicity.

So, the source of our confusion is: there are three subjects, loosely mapped to two enwiki articles. One of the three merits an entry on WP:HAVE -- the religious doctrine; but it's not the main subject of its enwiki article. How can all this be handled? --146.200.13.17 23:58, 13 March 2016 (UTC)

Philosophers and social scientists: Martin Heidegger

Hello. I suggest to add Martin Heidegger instead of Noam Chomsky or Simone de Beauvoir. I think the most important and influential philosopher in the continental tradition in the 20th century should be in this list. Please comment. Ratte (talk) 18:28, 18 July 2016 (UTC)

Zhu Xi is the first to be removed. Chomsky and Beauvoir are not less appreciated than Heidegger. Propositum (talk) 18:54, 22 August 2016 (UTC)

Hormone

Hormone doesn't belong in organic chemistry as there is no way that an organic chemist could tell whether a substance acts as a hormone or not. It should be moved to biochemistry or perhaps even to biology(physiology). --Episcophagus (talk) 18:51, 12 December 2016 (UTC)

Agree, I suggest you put it under biochemistry. — Yerpo ^Eh? 20:08, 13 December 2016 (UTC)