Talk:IP Editing: Privacy Enhancement and Abuse Mitigation/Archives/2021-01

Just give me what I need to find and fight troublemakers

Normal user/non-logged in users probably don't need to see anything more than "this user was not logged in, click on username to see RECENT posts by this same IP address." "Recent" may be 1-30 days for highly-dymanic addresses, several months to year or more "long-term dynamic" ones, and a lot longer for static ones.

Experienced users should be able to see all past posts by the registered net-block so they can make sensible decisions whether to report vandalism or not. This may not be feasible for "large" blocks like /16 and larger or the IPv6-equivalent. Typically, the net-block size would be pulled from internet registry information, but there will always be case-by-case exceptions, like a known static IP address might be be a size of "1 address" or an ISP that was "registered" as a /14 but which was known to sub-divide blocks might have its ranged "carved up" for our purposes.

On request, experienced users should be able to ask for and routinely get the rights to "drill down" to some reasonably small net-block, probably not smaller than a 24 (unless it was already smaller, see above). In other words, if ACME ISP had a /17 block and I knew or suspected it sub-divided its block into /24-blocks, but the WMF didn't so it presented it to me as a /17, I could ask for a view of the /24 block's edits.

Except for known static addresses and known very-small-blocks e.g. /25 and smaller, the ability to "drill down further" should be restricted to those who go through an approval process more serious than "oh, you are an experienced user with no recent history of trouble, here you go, you now have this user-right."

The ability to see actual complete addresses should be further restricted, but on en-wiki at least, it will need to be routinely open to administrators who request the permission and, upon an approval process at least as strict as the one needed to "drill down past a /24." It might not be much more strict than that, or it might be a lot more strict, this is probably where LEGAL will need to step in and advise.

Bottom line: Show me the information I need to make Wikipedia better. I have no problem if other things are hidden, just don't get in the way of me trying to help. Davidwr/talk 15:21, 7 January 2021 (UTC)

Davidwr: Thanks. Yes, the reason this is a long-term project is that we want to work to achieve exactly that. /Johan (WMF) (talk) 15:23, 7 January 2021 (UTC)

And everyone telling us exactly what they need is very helpful. /Johan (WMF) (talk) 15:23, 7 January 2021 (UTC)

Self-reply: Experienced users also need a way to correlate people who, while they are in a different IP address range, are either in the same ISP or the same geography. Case #1 would be a cell phone company that has several distinct IP address ranges it uses "randomly" across an entire nation. Case #2 would be a troublemaker who shifts from his home ISP to his cell phone to the public library to the local coffee shop to ... and so on. I'm not sure what "level of trust" is needed for that, but it's going to be "not too hard to get when requested" to be useful. It might need to be "harder to get" than the "routinely granted" access I mentioned in the second paragraph above (msg. dated 15:21, 7 January 2021 (UTC)). Just as important, maybe more so, is the ability to get a "confirmed NEGATIVE correlation." If two seemingly-similar editors from different net-blocks are from different sides of the planet, that would be VERY helpful to know - either they are unrelated or one or both addresses may need to be checked to see if it is a known or unknown proxy. Speaking of proxies and the like, it would help if "geographically indistinct" addresses like proxies and enterprise-NAT-addresses were flagged as such when known, and if there was a way to ask for a check to be done on an address that "seemed like" it might be "geographically indistinct." Davidwr/talk 15:36, 7 January 2021 (UTC)

Public-interest location info

Here is an example of where knowing at least the city had value to more than just direct vandal-fighting, it was used in wider discussion of improper influence. w:en:Wikipedia:Wikipedia Signpost/2020-12-28/Opinion "How to make your factory's safety and labor issues disappear" Mqsobhan was not gone for good. On December 3, an anonymous editor with an IP address from Dhaka, Bangladesh deleted most of the article, but was immediately reverted. If IP addresses are no longer openly published, rough location be? Pelagic from Sydney (talk) 01:39, 12 January 2021 (UTC)

Just wanted to acknowledge that this has been seen and is not ignored. /Johan (WMF) (talk) 12:02, 10 March 2021 (UTC)