Talk:Fundraising/WMF India fundraising campaign

Mobile large banner language question

Is "We request you, sincerely: don't skip this" idiomatic Indian English? It sounds awkward in NA English. Folly Mox (talk) 20:42, 11 June 2024 (UTC)

Hi @Folly Mox,

Yes, it is localised to Indian English. We work with a native Indian to ensure our English is localised for the campaign. Best, JBrungs (WMF) (talk) 08:06, 12 June 2024 (UTC)

Thanks! I was hoping that was the case, but wanted to double check. Folly Mox (talk) 11:19, 12 June 2024 (UTC)

I'm an Indian. I've heard that turn of phrase before, but I do not believe it's commonly used. It sounds more common in overly formal letters than regular parlance.

I generally very much dislike phrasals like "...it will soon be too late to help the nonprofit behind Wikipedia." This is very much misleading and will lead to long term harm to the goodwill of Wikipedia. I have strong personal opinions about Wikipedia banners being unskippable and instrusive; I believe that even if those are necessary to keep fundraising increased, the campaigns should not resort to weasel words. There are ways to highlight the importance of our campaigns without going "If you don't donate it'll be too late" or similar. Soni (talk) 23:19, 17 June 2024 (UTC)

Hi JBrungs (WMF), thanks for the response. The phrase seems to be a literal translation from Hindi to English. As Soni rightly pointed out, the phrase is not used in daily interaction. Would recommend reframing it to: "Kindly don't skip this, join the 2% of readers who donate". Brahmavadini (talk) 10:42, 18 June 2024 (UTC)

I agree with this phrasing, it's much more natural and common to Indian English. Soni (talk) 13:23, 18 June 2024 (UTC)

Hi Soni and Brahmavadini,

Thank you for your feedback. Do you have any suggestions on how we could specifically improve the banner text? Brahmavadini, thank you for your suggestion regarding ‘request’. We have updated the text per your suggestion

Soni, I just wanted to take a minute to clarify a few things around the banners (this is for the Desktop large banner specifically). There are several options to skip them. You can close the whole banner via the X on the top right hand corner, you can select ‘I already donated’ below the banner, or you can choose the ‘ Maybe later’ option in which case you get a reminder email later in the campaign. Impression wise readers see 1-2 large banners as well as several small banners.

As mentioned, I would love to hear your alternative wording thoughts for the messaging and we will try to find space to test them and get back to you with the results.

Best, Julia JBrungs (WMF) (talk) 06:57, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

Thank you, Julia. Did you want my inputs on something specific in the banner text? The feedback given below (the 4 points) captures the essence & the mobile large banner text is same. Any changes in the desktop large banner should be replicated in all the others. Brahmavadini (talk) 07:40, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

That clarification does not clarify anything. All it tells me is that banners are skippable, which does not remove my main concerns with fundraising and how they phrase things. But sure, let me give more exact suggestions (this is for Desktop Large)

• "Please don't scroll past this 1-minute read." -> This is a bit awkward, perhaps consider "This will take a minute, please don't scroll" or something similar?
• "We're sorry to interrupt, but it's Wednesday, 19 June," -> Again overly formal. I am not well versed with fundraising (Brahmavadini's link to ketto etc is more useful than I) but I suspect this is more the personal touch of your consultant than actual fundraising-speak.
• "and it will soon be too late to help us in our fundraiser." -> Misleading, and why I think Wikipedia fundraising violates our core values. Should be more direct and honest imho. WMF campaigns keep doomsaying instead of something like "and only a few days to go for our fundraiser" (not ideal wording)
• "We request you to reflect on the number of times you visited Wikipedia in the past year and if you're able to donate ₹ 25 to the Wikimedia Foundation." -> Again overly formal, and actually a confusing sentence. "Consider how many times this year you've visited Wikipedia; are you able to donate ₹ 25 to the Wikimedia Foundation?" (or "; is that worth ₹ 25?"
• 2nd paragraph, Brahmavadini already talked about AI. Rest of paragraph is good.
• "If Wikipedia is one of the websites you use most and if the knowledge you gain here is valuable" -> Another awkward turn of phrase. I think it's more impactful to pick either and use that. Knowledge you gain here could just be "The knowledge many gain from Wikipedia is invaluable" or something after the last para. The last line ("Every contribution..") is punchy and well-written, this one is too compound.

As for Desktop (small) -

• "We're sorry we've asked you a few times recently, but it's Wednesday, 19 June, and it will soon be too late to help the nonprofit behind Wikipedia." -> I don't know what the date is doing there. Is that supposed to help? If the fundraising is ending at a specific date, would a countdown not be better? Same concerns as before (First phrase is too formal and long, last is too misleading). Rest is good.

Overall, it feels clunky and formal, the sentences go for too long sometimes, and I would prefer an honest clear message more. Soni (talk) 07:41, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

Thank you both for going through the banners and suggesting alternatives that you prefer. I have passed this on to our content team. Best, JBrungs (WMF) (talk) 08:58, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

Fundraiser Headline

Wikipedia still can't be sold.

I would strongly recommend to reframe the fundraiser headline. The intended meaning does not match the actual meaning coming across to a general reader, who is a potential donor.

The meaning behind the headline reads like: "well, we have tried to sell Wikipedia innumerable times but we are unable to, that's why we are here to raise money to sustain the project because we are unable to sell it."

I know that is not the intention but the brand messaging is coming across that way. Brahmavadini (talk) 10:54, 18 June 2024 (UTC)

+1. I also do not understand what the "still" is referring to. Is there supposed to be some Wikipedia neutrality news that you're expecting the average reader to know about?

I'd recommend phrasing like "Wikipedia is still free for everyone" (or something similar). Or even adjacent ideas like "Knowledge should always be free". Indian news has an actual problem with being sold to non-neutral corporate entities, so avoiding "being sold" as a connotation is quite important. Soni (talk) 13:28, 18 June 2024 (UTC)

Thank you for your input here, the headline is based on a conversation that Jimmy Wales had with Elon Musk on X in late 2023. As Musk suggested that Wikipedia can be bought, Wales countered that it cannot. This headline shows our commitment to Wikipedia’s non-profit, non-saleable status and has resonated deeply with readers across the globe, highlighting the impact and importance of our mission. However, taking your feedback into consideration, we will be testing our best performing alternative headline:  “You might not see this message next time you're here” during the campaign. If this works for our audience in India, we will change the headline. We have, in the past, tested variants including “Wikipedia is still free”, “Wikipedia is yours” and many more along the same lines and they did not perform as well. We’re also taking your feedback (below) regarding AI messaging into consideration and will test other mission-driven variants during the campaign. JBrungs (WMF) (talk) 06:58, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

What specifically are you testing for? More donations? Because if the intent is just to maximise donations at all costs, you could always turn to clickbait. It's proven to work (Just see Youtube and other social media), but it will also end up compromising other core values. I'd personally value a Wikimedia that retains goodwill of all readers than one only focused on getting the maximum revenue possible.

As for the headline here, it's too convoluted. People would not be aware of the conversation, and the quote will not make sense without that. The alt headline (“You might not see this message next time you're here") is much better, though I suggest some simplification ("Next time, this message may be gone" maybe?). I can suggest other wordings, but someone else should probably workshop better ones - "Wikipedia will never be sold" or "You can keep Wikipedia free" (more direct) or "Can you keep Wikipedia free?" Soni (talk) 07:25, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

@JBrungs (WMF): I am aware of the Twitter (X) context and it is unlikely for all the donors to be aware of that conversation, connect it with Wikipedia's core values (are readers and donors aware?!), and then donate. The headline would work fine for a closed door fundraising drive. Keeping the Twitter conversation aside and the potential mixed messaging, the headline is not Indian English. By including "still" in the headline, the messaging goes a different way, as stated in my first message. The alternative - “You might not see this message next time you're here” - is too generic and lacks context. Suggesting two simpler alternatives: "Help us keep Wikipedia free" and "Wikipedia won't be sold" (a variation of the current headline). Brahmavadini (talk) 07:34, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

Hi,

Just a quick update on the headline, we changed this yesterday from Wikipedia still can't be sold to Wikipedia still won't be sold will . Thank you very much for your suggestion! Best, JBrungs (WMF) (talk) 05:15, 29 August 2024 (UTC)

Desktop Large - Banner Language

The main page states that the process of localisation is ongoing. Kindly consider these inputs:

1. and it will soon be too late to help us in our fundraising - it would be good to remove the sense of urgency. Suggestion - "and we're fundraising for Wikipedia and its sister projects".

2. this gave ₹25 - the localised version would be this donated ₹25. Check out few India-based social cause donation/fundraiser websites for language clarity.

3. reconsider the second paragraph: "In the age of AI .... today and tomorrow". There is mixed messaging. "Wikipedia" is synonymous with "knowledge" and/or "encyclopaedia" - that's the brand identity. Avoid using terms and phrases like "heart of online information" as its generic (every other website is a source of online information) and dilutes the Wikipedia brand.

4. we'd reach our goal in a few hours - what is the goal? A financial goal is always mentioned in our donation/fundraising drives. Check out milaap.org, ketto.org or donatekart.com.

Hoping the inputs help. Brahmavadini (talk) 11:35, 18 June 2024 (UTC)

For 2, Gave is somewhat acceptable too. Agree with the general points. Soni (talk) 13:30, 18 June 2024 (UTC)

Thank you for those suggestions. I have addressed point 3 in the answer above (at the end) and I have passed the others to our content team. Best, JBrungs (WMF) (talk) 06:59, 19 June 2024 (UTC)

Hello, by when could we see the India localised banners? Also, will there be a community call this time? Thank you. Brahmavadini (talk) 04:37, 2 July 2024 (UTC)

Hi,

The localised banners examples are overleaf. If you want to, I am happy to host a community call. Rachit presented the campaign on my behalf at the South East Asia community call (I could not make it due to travel). Generally, we are trying to join existing calls rather than adding more calls to our communities' agendas. Would you like an additional call? Best, JBrungs (WMF) (talk) 05:00, 2 July 2024 (UTC)

Hi, the text at the overleaf examples continue to be localised for US audiences, that's what it says & I had already checked before writing the follow-up message. Since South East Asia and South Asia are different regions, could you guide me to the notes document where participants from South Asia attending the South East Asia community call shared their feedback on India fundraising? Thanks. Brahmavadini (talk) 05:38, 2 July 2024 (UTC)

Here is what we did over the last months to engage the community and ensure everyone has the right information: The fundraising campaign was announced in the South Asia (sorry got the name wrong in my post above) call on the 19th of May. There was no immediate feedback to the campaign in the call and it was mentioned that more details will be shared subsequently. I then sent an email (6th June) to the IndiaL mailing list and a Telegram message to the General Chat - South Asia with the link of the community collab page where folks were invited to give feedback. We collect all feedback on this talk page, so all feedback we have received so far, you can see above.

With regards to the banners, the ones overleaf have now been updated (and so has the text). Best,   JBrungs (WMF) (talk) 09:13, 2 July 2024 (UTC)

There is nearly no change in the fundraiser, so I'm not sure what the updates mean. The biggest and most obvious change ("Wikipedia still can't be sold." as the title being very confusing) still remains, and almost none of the smaller changes that were suggested on the page above were actioned on. Can you confirm the team is done making the changes based on our feedback above?

So far it feels like the community feedback is just being ignored, even the parts where the current wording is unambiguously bad. Soni (talk) 10:39, 2 July 2024 (UTC)

Hi Soni,

We did take all the feedback provided above and we will test it during the India banner campaign. This means, we will run our control banners (those overleaf) and adapted banners based on the feedback provided. Once we have run them we will share the feedback here with you. Best, JBrungs (WMF) (talk) 13:50, 2 July 2024 (UTC)

Hi, thanks for the clarifying note. Yes, I did see the announcements on the India mailing list and the community Telegram channel - thanks again for spreading word around the fundraising campaign. Regarding the adapted banners, would it be possible to share a draft here? Perhaps not all the four banners, any one would do like the desktop large banner. Even if we ignore the minute messaging aspects of the fundraising text, two primary concerns still remain as they will be a part of the control banners:

(1) the headline, which is misleading to Indian readers, as mentioned in the "Fundraiser Headline" section above.

(2) lack of information about the financial goals which the banner says will be reached in a few hours if readers donate.

Can nothing be done about these in the control banners? Brahmavadini (talk) 06:18, 4 July 2024 (UTC)

Just a quick note, I am passing this on to the team. Many of them are out today and tomorrow due to a public holiday and I am out as of tomorrow for my summer holiday. So it might take a bit of time before you get a reply! Thank you. Best, JBrungs (WMF) (talk) 06:33, 4 July 2024 (UTC)

Has the fundraising started already? I saw two banners while accessing English Wikipedia from my mobile device. Brahmavadini (talk) 11:54, 10 July 2024 (UTC)

Hi @Brahmavadini, thank you for the engagement throughout this page. No, we didn’t start the main campaign today, but we did run a short “pre-test” that concluded at 15 UTC. We run these for a few hours at a time, pre-campaign, to ensure payment processing performs at scale.

We also use pre-tests for emergent priorities to address before the campaign, and that’s what I would call some of the feedback you and others have provided on this page.

Your suggestions are well received. To respond: in short, yes, we can accelerate testing of the headline. We can also work to clarify that we say it will “soon be too late” because our fundraiser is only a month long and serves limited impressions to each reader. Plus, we’ll try expanding on the goal language and the context we provide around what donations support.

The headlines in particular lend themselves well to pre-testing, and I’ll see about adding a spot in early August for a short test before the main campaign begins August 13. We’ll also prioritize copy improvements to roll out as the fundraiser gets underway in August. Julia and I will report back here with findings. -- SPatton (WMF) (talk) 18:57, 10 July 2024 (UTC)

Hi @SPatton (WMF), thanks for the response around the pre-test. In the interest of keeping the conversations structured, I am creating another sub-heading on the page to discuss the banners. Brahmavadini (talk) 16:01, 12 July 2024 (UTC)

Advertising Guidelines

Hi @SPatton (WMF), as mentioned above, creating this new thread for discussion around fundraising banner advertising. I had briefly followed last year's fundraising activities where previous fundraising banners were revised and co-created along with the community-at-large.

That being said, could you point me to a document / URL to read about which non-profit fundraising standards / code / guidelines were referred to for this year's India fundraising? Brahmavadini (talk) 16:09, 12 July 2024 (UTC)

Hello, just a nudge to follow-up on this. Would love to get clarity around the question above. Brahmavadini (talk) 08:53, 21 July 2024 (UTC)

Hi @Brahmavadini, thanks for following along last year as we co-created our campaign with the community. We’ve relied on feedback from community members and readers to improve the user experience and messaging we use in India.

There are many different standards around advertising and fundraising guidelines that we look at, for example the Donor Bill of Rights from the Association of Fundraising Professionals and the International Principle of Ethics in Fundraising provide some guidance. Different countries have different advertising standards that we need to be cognizant of.

We still have a few weeks to go before the campaign starts and the team is eager to hear your ideas to better connect with readers this year. The team is also preparing for the campaign at the end of the year in the US and other English speaking countries and has been working on new ideas with volunteers. Here are a few ideas from that process that may be interesting to think about for the India campaign:

• Wikipedia as a place where people can get information they trust
• Wikipedia as a place where the knowledge is trustworthy because humans create it
• The work of the Wikimedia Foundation to maintain Wikipedia’s technology and protect people’s right to free knowledge around the world.
• Wikimedia Foundation’s commitment to reader privacy and never tracking or selling their information. To quote this new Wikiminute video, “in a world where personal data has become currency, privacy is worth every penny.”

What do you think of those newer ideas? Thank you for your input and ideas for how we can better reach our readers in India. - SPatton (WMF) (talk) 16:27, 23 July 2024 (UTC)

Hi @SPatton (WMF), thank you for the response.

I agree that different countries have different advertising standards which any organisation needs to be cognizant of. The Donor Bill of Rights from the Association of Fundraising Professionals (AFP) and the International Principle of Ethics in Fundraising from CFRE International do offer valuable insights into the best practices of ethical fundraising.

However, all advertisements displayed in India (online and offline) need to adhere to the advertising guidelines set by The Advertising Standards Council of India (ASCI). The ASCI is a self-regulatory body that promotes responsible advertising by focusing on the content and the messaging of advertisements. It is thereby necessary to ensure that the upcoming fundraising banners comply with India’s advertising standards.

Guidelines of The ASCI Code are of particular relevance in the current situation. With this context, I want to draw your attention to the initial inputs shared here, with specific reference to:

• The fundraiser headline, which is misleading.
• The sense of urgency & the plea of support to reach an undefined financial goal in a few hours (here, such messaging is only seen during medical emergencies & the amount being raised is always disclosed; example case: the top banner reads, “this fundraiser is in an urgent need of funds”).
• The mixed messaging w.r.t language usage.

(Please refer to the prior discussions above; I wanted to avoid repeating the details & pinpoint to the three major issues).

Therefore, it is necessary to recreate / redefine the existing banners keeping the Indian cultural, social, and language nuances in mind, irrespective of how the control/approved banners perform in other fundraising markets.

Regarding the four new ideas for the US and other English speaking countries, I do not have relevant details to assess and comment on, since I am not aware of their fundraising rules, culture, social, and language contexts.

For India, none of them will work.

Sorry for being blunt but I have learnt with experience that it is better to be blunt where money is involved; it saves everyone’s time and resources, and sets the right expectation.

Why will they not work?

(In order of ideas shared)

• Hard to prove.
• Humans have bias; always.
• Unclear on how Wikimedia Foundation impacts both.
• Masses don’t really believe this, in general (not specific to the Wikimedia Foundation).

See, donations are impact-oriented to us. What constitutes ‘impact’ could be debatable, depending on from which side of the world one views it. The How India Gives, 2021 - 22 report from the Centre for Social Impact and Philanthropy, Ashoka University will be an excellent read. Giving to the poor, medical emergencies, institutions for orphaned kids, religious institutions, and in-kind gifts are some prominent ways we give/donate. Why? There is a measurable impact. I would close this with two questions:

1. What is the expected impact of the fundraising banners?
2. Is that expected impact visible or recognisable?

Have a great day. Happy to engage further. Brahmavadini (talk) 16:29, 24 July 2024 (UTC)

Hi @Brahmavadini, thank you for these links and all your input. I spent some time reading through the ASCI Code and appreciate the scope and guidance of this document.

When it comes to informing readers and donors about the impact of giving, we try to do it in several ways. In all our banners and online donation flows, we link to our Frequently Asked Questions, which describes our funding model and the work of the Wikimedia Foundation. We are actively working on banner designs that make the FAQ even easier to find because it contains so much good info.

We also publish an annual report, financial reports, a yearly fundraising report and frequent blog posts. We are experimenting with more multimedia content like the amazing WikiMinute videos put out by the Comms department.

Finally, we’ve launched a standalone Thank You campaign to donors after our fundraiser is over, sharing details about the Foundation’s work and highlighting important community work that is funded through Foundation grants. This will be our second year sending this in India. - SPatton (WMF) (talk) 21:40, 31 July 2024 (UTC)

Delay in fundraising campaign - new start date 27th of August

Dear all,

Initially, we planned the campaign to start tomorrow and run until the 10th of September. We have had some issues with our local payment provider in India and due to this we are postponing the campaign by a couple of weeks. Our new campaign dates are the 27th of August to the 24th of September. Let me know if you have any questions or concerns. Best,   JBrungs (WMF) (talk) 10:41, 12 August 2024 (UTC)

Donor Numbers

Hello again, I saw the live banners via my mobile. Per the banner:

1. on 28 August, it says "Last year, over 350,000 people in India donated".
2. on 31 August, it says: "Last year, over 444,000 people in India donated".

I understand advert split testing (A/B testing) & the difference in numbers piqued my curiosity. If the advertisements are indeed stating the number of donors from India, why are the numbers different in various banners?!

Thanks for your time, Brahmavadini (talk) 10:19, 31 August 2024 (UTC)

Hi @JBrungs (WMF) and @SPatton (WMF), wanted to bring your attention to the above message. Kindly look into it. Thank you. Brahmavadini (talk) 09:04, 25 November 2024 (UTC)

Hi @Brahmavadini,

Thanks for the note! We first tested the mention of last year’s donor base before realizing the number we mentioned, 350k, didn’t include all our email donors. We felt the 440k was more accurate so it was updated. Best, JBrungs (WMF) (talk) 14:23, 26 November 2024 (UTC)