Grants talk:PEG/Wikicology/100 articles contribution to Yoruba Language Wikipedia

This grant is currently under review. Comments are welcome on this page. Remember the Friendly space expectations!

GAC members who support this request

1. --DerekvG (talk) 17:25, 17 November 2015 (UTC) success

GAC comments

DerekvG comments

I will motivate why I did not asks any questions:

• the limited amount requested : 800 U$ and the fact that the expenditure is very transparent could be proven and reported quite easily,
• I looked at the grantees trackrecord (now i cannot read Yoruba, but i can read stats) and it looks sincere,
• Knowing the situation in Nigeria through my contacts inside and outside the Wikimedia movement, with Nigerian people and the country, I found this a quite ligitimate request,
  • For most of Africa there is urgency to record, describe and preserve and archive the Heritage and history. Africa including most of the Arab world was until the 2nd half of the 20th century an area where traditions and history were predominantly handed down orally. Western colonistation and subsequent liberation (independance) has changed these countries into modern more western societies where written records are testimony to the history and heritage. Audio visual sources exist but are often in a sorry state preservation and recovery onto digtal media is of the highest urgency. The traditions handed over orally are at risk too if stories told dances, rituals, daily activities, lifestyle, survival techniques (some of them handed down from prehistoric age) are not recorded, described and documented they risk to be lost in the eternal mist of oblivion. So if these people don't register either in written form or in Audio-visual documents then their oral history and their heritage is for eternity lost.

As an example allow me to draw the parallel with ancient nature healing and herbal medicine in europe, most if not all knowledge has been lost for 2 reasons healers and masters of the herbal medicine arts were burnt at the stake or hanged for witchcraft their scriptures burnt and so the millennia old tradition was lost because no written records remained and the practisioners were murdered so they was nobody to teach new practitioners.

Modern medical research is trying to research numerous kinds of components as potential medication ... how do they do this by throwing a substance at some illnesses in labrats and if by mere chance they hit on some reaction publications follow about potential only 80% of potentials turn out to be empty shells. The west is working with Antibiotics only, to the extend that we have now deseases that cannot be treated anymore with the current generation of antibiotics and its unclear wether another generation lie behind the next decencium threshold. Russia was denied antibiotics so they kept up their research on bacteriophages but the research was never developped like in the industrial west and knowledge about them is obscure, and fragmented in western medicine. Also modern western medical research is trying to rediscover the benefits of herbal substances for medication, but by comparison they need to reinvent the wheel becauas knowledge which up until the 17th and 18 th century had been build and handed down generation upon generation has been lost.

If our Yoruba friends don't register their heritage it will be lost, and its not only unde rmenace form the elites educated in the west in a written culture, but also from the religious fanatics from the east. There are thousands of ethnicities like the Yoruba many of them extinct, terminally lost for eternity. Not only animalspecies can become extinct, also cultures.

• Knowing Africa, for 800 usd Wikicology will probably buy a 2nd hand modern computer, so

Last but not least, I could imagine a project that the WMF suppliess a package with the latest state of the art technology (computer, DSLR camera, tripod, software, communication equipement etc), bought in tghe west and send to thr grantee rather, then bought on the local market; for which grantees could apply provided a grantee undertakes to produce a minimum of contributions like the numbers Wikicology provided in this request. I would even support a WMF project that distributes 5 or a dozen of such packages.

To make this kind of contribution is nearly a fulltime job. Moreover I would also support a budget that gives these people a volunteer compensation of somewhere between 50 and 100 USD per month if they contract with WMF to supply wiki contributions for 12 months, and a training to train other contributors. I know this position is controversial, this would revolt many western volunteers their argument being that paid contributions are unacceptable, however the compensation would be to cover miscelanneous expences itś not a salary. This would be something extended to certain countries, because it would enable the people from those to actually do what they like to do, without having to invest their minimal income into expences that benefit others (the wikiproject) and don't contribute for their survival.

The motivation for such an approach is that they would perform work that the institutions ( universities, archives and museums) cannot handle because they don't have the funds, the technical amd human resources for such projects.

--DerekvG (talk) 20:52, 21 November 2015 (UTC) @Kharold:Why was this moved back to draft ? I see no reason for such action --DerekvG (talk) 18:44, 26 November 2015 (UTC)

DerekvG this request was moved back to draft because the request to purchase a laptop for an individual is out of scope for PEG funding guidelines. Another issue is that we cannot fund projects where individuals will create content as that comes very close to paid editing. Instead, we fund projects that engage or motivate groups of people in editing or adding content to Wikimedia projects, such as editathons, photo walks, or contests. I have discussed these issue with Wikicology, along with suggestions for activities that the Nigerian user group could plan to meet some of the goals in the original request. We moved the request back to draft while Wikicology works with the Nigerian user group to revise the plan. Please let me know if you need more clarification about the kinds of projects and expenses that can funded through the PEG program. Best, --KHarold (WMF) (talk) 21:35, 8 December 2015 (UTC)

KHarold (WMF) i understand about the guidelines and I was thinking slightly outside the boundaries for the reasons I mentioned, i will not dispute the correct application of the guidelines. Howevver I could imagine a project in which the WMF funds the purchase of /donates Laptops or computers and camera's for chapters like Nigeria with which they could set up a loan pool from which volunteers can get a computer/camera on loan for a period of time : i.e. weekly/forthnightly or monthly basis. --DerekvG (talk) 21:16, 10 December 2015 (UTC)

Hi DerekvG, we did discuss the option of creating an equipment loan program, and moved the request back to draft while the Nigerian user group decides what they want to do next.--KHarold (WMF) (talk) 00:36, 11 December 2015 (UTC)

Community comments

Tony1

This is difficult, because editors on WMF sites are volunteers, and we don't normally fund pure editing, or the purchasing of equipment for a single person.

I wonder whether you might have skype, phone, or email exchanges with KHarold on WMF staff to determine whether the project can be designed in terms of things we will fund, like training, school/university activities, etc. Tony (talk) 04:30, 19 November 2015 (UTC)

Tony1 Thanks for your comments but you probably do not understand the project design. I'm not in anyway requesting to be paid. I'm a prolific content creator who had created over 500 articles on the English Wikipedia. Wikimedia projects had a special place in my heart. I've always been looking for thousands of ways to improve Wikipedia. My project has its goals and my budget is clear enough. I won't sit in my house to take the images of yoruba culture, fashion and adornments. I only requested for what I need to execute the project. Wikicology (talk) 14:31, 19 November 2015 (UTC)

Tony allow me to object to your comments, I find your remarks as utterly unfriendly and disrespectful of the friendly space environment

(comment redacted)...we do not all live in suburbia with unlimited access to computers and broadband highspeed communications ... and allow me to wonder (comment redacted) that you may speak with "WE" as in the phrase "things we will fund " because a)you don't fund anything , neither do I, so there is no such thing as WE unless you offer to personally pay for this grant request, an the you can say "things I will fund" b) you represent only yourself here Tony , and so do I, (comment redacted), and last but not least : we're talking about 800 USD. (comment redacted)

--DerekvG (talk) 15:35, 19 November 2015 (UTC)

Derek, I recall that this is not the first time you've been abusive towards me. (comments redacted). As you'll read above, I was trying to be helpful. I'd returned to add more, look further, since African languages are a priority for the WMF movement. It's shocking to find that I've been insulted in the meantime.

I'll move to the application. If didn't look properly at the budget, you'll understand that my comments were at least partly relevant. First, it's unusual to pay for a laptop computer for an individual editor, and you've managed 35 articles per month without one (I'm just asking for more details). Usually equipment usage and ownership would be through an affiliate, like UG Nigeria, where an item could be registered and lent out over time to more than one person.

Second, the goals are in terms of two months; will there be longer-term goals? I'd also like to know whether you're in the position to recruit more editors to the cause of the Yoruba WP. It can't exist in the long term from the efforts of just one person.

Travel: I'm trying to translate into $US or euros to get a feel for the cost. Is it car hire? Fuel? How many kilometres is your rough estimate—or how many days in travel?

I presume the photos will be of landscape (or wildlife, settlements, or a combination)?

It would be nice to know just a little about Yoruba—where, how many native speakers? And how big the is the WP? Is it written in roman script? Is see no links to the site, so please teach us a little.

I know it's only for $800 or so, but we're here to understand, and to optimise the design and outcomes, and possibly to establish the ground for longer-term activities. ... to help, despite the abuse. Tony (talk) 13:36, 20 November 2015 (UTC)

To be honest wit you, I find your remarks unfriendly, disrespectful and unhelpful. Allow me to disagree with you on your claim that "It's unusual to pay for a laptop computer for an individual editor". The fact that an individual grantee has not requested for it to execute a project is not an indication that such request is invalid. Individual, groups or affiliates have no reason to request for it, if they already have one to execute their projects but at the same time, they have the right to request for one if need be (if they don't have). Like DerekvG rightfully said, we do not all live in suburbia with unlimited access to computers and broadband high-speed communications. We pay heavily for internet connections in my country but I didn't requested for funding to subscribe to the internet.

If I may ask you, do you think I created over 530 articles without a personal computer laptop? Of course I had a personal Laptop computer I often use for Wikimedia projects but lost it to robbery in Northern Nigeria and I can't afford one now.

Yes, the goals are in terms of two months and there will be longer time goals. I am also trying to recruit Yoruba Professors, scholars and teachers who can help to improve the Yoruba Wikipedia. I have a mailing-list for them and I will be glad to include you on the mailing-list if you are interested.

I actually cannot give a rough estimate of the distance that will be covered in kilometers since the images will be taking in different regions/locations in the states. I will fuel my car for the number of days I will visit this region/locations (aprox 3-4 times in 2 months)

This is the link to yoruba Wikipedia if you want to know about the Yoruba Wikipedia. Wikicology (talk) 15:55, 20 November 2015 (UTC)

I find your remarks unfriendly, disrespectful, and unhelpful.

That information you should have provided in the application, not after painstaking questioning by me. The WMF doesn't buy individuals replacement stolen personal laptops.

I will return to example the site in question. You need to concentrate on being civil to reviewers, not taking sides with an abusive GAC member. Tony (talk) 16:06, 20 November 2015 (UTC)

I'm not asking neither you nor the WMF to buy my stolen properties or laptop. I'm only telling you how I lost my laptop. I'm sick and tired of your condescending tone. I will rather not respond to your comment again. Wikicology (talk) 17:55, 20 November 2015 (UTC)

Hi Wikicology, DerekvG and Tony. You have all brought up valid and interesting points in this discussion, and I appreciate that you have all engaged in a discussion about this request. It is unfortunate that many comments include unfriendly accusations and sarcasm. Would each of you be willing to review your comments and revise them so that they focus on questions and concerns about the request? I am requesting this revision so that current and future commenters feel that they can participate in the discussion without having to make or receive unfriendly comments. Community, GAC and grantee engagement is this process is important and valuable, and we appreciate that all of you have continued to participate despite the tone of the discussion. Please send me a message if you have concerns about this that you would like to discuss. Thanks again, --KHarold (WMF) (talk) 19:59, 20 November 2015 (UTC)

Hi KHarold (WMF). Thanks for your comment. I personally do not have any issue against Tony1. I appreciate Tony's contribution to PEG. Tony might not mean to be gruff and I'm convinced this wasn't intentional. As you rightfully said, Community, GAC and grantee engagement in this process is important and valuable. Tony, accept my sincere apology. Here is not a battleground and let us meet the friendly space expectations. Let's not disrupt Wikimedia projects to illustrate a point. DerekvG, I know you weren't too happy with Tony's initial comment but let's take it as constructive criticism and move on. Wikicology (talk) 17:49, 21 November 2015 (UTC)

I don't know what you mean by "let's not" .You and DerekvG are the protagonists. I'm appalled that I wrote what was intended to be a helpful comment and returned to find personal abuse. I will take measures from now on to ensure that GAC members and applicants do not abuse my good faith. Tony (talk) 01:07, 22 November 2015 (UTC)

Olushola

1. ~~Olaniyan Olushola (talk) I support this noble position user:wikicology is taking to assist in keeping the WikiYoruba from going to extinction. At the moment, there is no one contributing to this project and if anyone deem it fit to venture into such project. In my opinion, it's a wonderful initiative. Moreso, he's not asking to be paid for contribution but for the tool to be used for the execution of the project.Olaniyan Olushola (talk) 12:15, 20 November 2015 (UTC)

agree with you Olaniyan Olushola--DerekvG (talk) 17:35, 20 November 2015 (UTC)