Grants talk:PEG/SarahStierch/MCN Conference

Questions and review

• Thank you Sarah for submitting this application. Sounds excellent when a Wiimedian is interested in attending a conference, that is firmly adhered with the main goals of the Wikimedia Movement. But I think we lack more information about the number of participants and their affiliations. I see that it'll be held in November in Atlanta, and have found the conference program with the most general information. I'm also interested in performing the measures of success in a wider extent, so my other question is about your future projects (probably the projects of WMDC) and their accordance with this conference. Best regards.--Kiril Simeonovski 08:26, 17 August 2011 (UTC)

Hi Kiril. Upwards of 300 people will probably be attending, if not more. I have not attended this conference before, however. I'm highly active in the GLAM WIKI movement, and I'm hoping to also possibly serve as a US GLAM Ambassador in the future. I'm also applying for a fellowship, but, I don't know if this is the appropriate place to talk about that at this point. Events like MCN will tie into my roles. Missvain 22:52, 20 August 2011 (UTC)

• Can you, please, specify how many days are you planing to stay in hotels and what sort of hotels? Also $200 "per diem" a bit very excessive, as far as I know, usual scolarships cover only travel/accommodation/registration fee, which usually includes lunch and dinner. Is there a registration option, which includes accommodation and food?--Victoria 13:51, 17 August 2011 (UTC)

My per diem is below average for the area, and it's a standard thing to ask for in the United States. Hotels and conferences do not pay for your food here in the States. I plan on staying 5 days at the conference hotel. Missvain 22:52, 20 August 2011 (UTC)

Please see the WMF Travel Policy. Grants involving travel should abide by those guidelines. I've added a note to the Grants:Index page under Guidelines to explicitly refer to that. Sarah's per diem request is $200. 75% of the US government's per diem for Atlanta is $42/day, so Sarah was actually asking for $10 less. Ijon 01:45, 23 August 2011 (UTC)

• Can a single person apply for a grant? In Grants:Index#Key_guidelines_and_criteria it is written that only chapter or a Wikimedia affilated group can apply. This application seems to be rather for conference scholarship, not for grant. Polimerek 10:54, 19 August 2011 (UTC)

It appears I can. Other users have, so I assumed I could and when I informed Asaf he didn't question it. I don't have a chapter or an "affiliated group" to ask on behalf of. Missvain 22:52, 20 August 2011 (UTC)

Yes, the Wikimedia Grants program is open to individuals as well, and the Grants:Index page specifically says "or individuals". Whereas we are most comfortable with empowering groups rather than individuals for things like events or long-term programs, grants to individuals make sense in some cases, like this one, where it is the individual rather than any group affiliation (even if she had any) that is the source the grant's potential impact. Ijon 01:45, 23 August 2011 (UTC)

Reviewing the Budget for this

I find a bit strange a 1600$ grant for a conference (well, i don't live in USA, and have no idea how expensive are things there, but 1600$ for a 3 days conference is really expensive), so i got to look the prices myself. And here is what i found:

The conference is really 4 days -- 3 days of main conference + 1 workshop day;

• Travel: 227 $. (that is the cheapest one, but there are at least 10 under 240$)

$280 appears reasonable to me. Does the $227 include taxes? with The prices may fluctuate. Aude 22:28, 20 August 2011 (UTC)

Would be reasonable if that was the price of the flight. As i show above, is not. There are no point in giving away money only because "is reasonable". Béria Lima ^msg 13:08, 21 August 2011 (UTC)

I obtained my prices from using Orbitz. Flying out of Dulles airport. I travel frequently and changes are standard. I'm asking for a below average amount of money in general for this entire conference. Missvain 05:17, 22 August 2011 (UTC)

• Hotel: there are 100 options under 125$ / night. Even if he place 125$ /night (and that is expensive) would be 500$ for the 4 nights she need to be there. Missvain 05:17, 22 August 2011 (UTC)

Sarah probably needs to get to Atlanta the night before it starts (Tuesday night) and leave on Sunday morning. That's 5 nights. The conference hotel has a rate of $159 per night + ~15% tax, which equates to $915. I think it's important that Sarah stay at the conference hotel so she can maximize networking with other attendees. Aude 22:28, 20 August 2011 (UTC)

I pointed as Tuesday as the day of arrival in Atlanta. But i want to know why she should leave in Sunday if the conference ends in the saturday? There are plents of flights saturday afternoon and night, and that is a 2 hours flight. So, why she should stay in Atlanta one more day? Béria Lima ^msg 13:08, 21 August 2011 (UTC)

Beria, it's quite common to stay one extra day for an evening of networking with colleagues (i.e. why would I stay the extra day at Wikimania if the conference ended on Saturday and not leave after the end party?). However, if me staying that one extra day will not get me this grant, then I'll leave on Saturday and not Sunday morning. Missvain 05:17, 22 August 2011 (UTC)

About the per diem expenses i need to say before of all, i'm completely against that. But "just for the fun" i decided to look for it, so here it is:

• Per diem expenses: Assuming that the lunch will be served in the conference (as usual) and the breakfast at the hotel (also usual), we left with dinner. So what i did (because again, i don't live in USA)? I got here checked for "Affordable Fine Dining" in Atlanta (there are 4 prices categories in this site: Fine Dining, Affordable Fine Dining, Moderately Priced and Cheap Eats - and i chose the 2nd more expensive one). Got to the list and checked 3 randon restaurants with online menu (1, 2 and 3) and in all of they you might spend 25$ - 35$ to eat.

Per diem is a very standard and expected thing in the United States, and helps alleviate the financial burden -- she's already paid her own money to travel and do a lot of outreach within the DC region and I think it's about time we do better in supporting volunteers like Sarah, to alleviate that burden.

The MCN conference does not provide lunch -- it's lunch on your own. In the US, hotels usually do not include breakfast, I think especially true with the conference hotel. I also expect that wi-fi will cost extra.

To estimate per diem, I would use US gov per diem rates, for Atlanta it's $56/per day. Sarah is doing 4 entire days ($56 x 4 = $224) + 2 half days (traveling - $28 x 2 = $56) or a total of $280. That's a very modest amount for perdiem, yet Sarah's only asking for $200 -- even more modest.

So let me get that staight: You want her to be in a 200$ / night hotel who does not have breakfast because is close to the venue? Having several (hundreds in fact) of hotels near by who cost half of that? Béria Lima ^msg 13:08, 21 August 2011 (UTC)

It is standard to stay at the hotel that the conference is being hosted at. Also, I checked prices for hotels within blocks and they are compatible, if not more expensive. The cheapest I found a few blocks away is $130 as of today. I do not own a car, I do not know my way around Atlanta, and if I am "forced" to stay outside of the area of the conference then I'll have to modify my grant application to obtain funding for transportation between the venue and the hotel. Missvain 05:17, 22 August 2011 (UTC)

The total? 230$ for travel + 500 for hotel + (35$ x 4) for food expenses + 200 for registration = 1070 $ (930$ if we don't pay for food - which is the most right thing to do).

So Sarah, can you explain for what do need the other 500$ ? Béria Lima ^msg 13:55, 20 August 2011 (UTC)

I would estimate the costs:

• $915 - hotel
• $280 - airfare
• $280 - perdiem
• $200 - mcn registration

Total: $1675

Her budget is slightly less, but hopefully that will be enough to cover expenses of attending the conference. Aude 22:28, 20 August 2011 (UTC)

I'm leaving my comments above in blue. Aude 22:28, 20 August 2011 (UTC)

My replies in green. And btw, since that is her personall grant, why are you answering? She is sick? She can't write? Béria Lima ^msg 13:08, 21 August 2011 (UTC)

Aude was being helpful. I was unaware of how the grant process proceeded (I have never applied for a grant, and I have never asked for funding from the Foundation ever for any of the multiple projects I do (except a partial Wikimania grant) - and I admit, I totally did not "read the directions!" upon applying. So I take the blame for that. I did not receive outside funding for this conference, therefore, I am coming to WMF. I was unaware of the peer review, which is my fault for not reviewing the process. I wrote my proposal for review by people familiar with US conference procedures and who are aware of my work. Aude informed me yesterday about the review. I am grateful she lent a hand, I only found out yesterday that WMF granted Katie funding for the same conference last year. Your above comment about me being "sick" or not able to "write" is insulting, rude and unprofessional. Regardless, I appreciate your consideration on this conference grant and I apologize if I did not originally provide enough information, I was following general US procedure for funding requests (at least in my industry). Missvain 05:17, 22 August 2011 (UTC)

Support

As President of the Wiki Society of Washington, DC, I strongly support Sarah's application, as she's been extremely invaluable to our GLAM collaborations, especially with the Smithsonian. She's served as an unpaid Wikipedian-in-Residence ("intern") at the Smithsonian Archives of American Art this summer, and solidified our collaboration across the Smithsonian and beyond (e.g. Walters Art Museum in Baltimore), and WikiProject Public Art has also been a great success in DC. Unfortunately, Wiki DC does not yet have any funds (we are in debt!) and hope / plan to apply for some funding in the next couple months, but not in time to support Sarah ourselves, nor sure yet we'll have sufficient budget for things like this.

I had good fortune of attending MCN last year, and there was enormous benefit in outreach to the GLAM community in the US. We made good contacts in San Diego (GLAM collaboration now w/ Balboa Park), the Met in NYC (which graciously gave a backstage tour for GLAMcamp NYC attendees in May, Minnesota Historical Society (has since hosted a Wikipedia meetup) among other institutions. In the upcoming year, we seek to broaden our outreach efforts to include more US-based collaborations outside of Washington DC + NYC (though continue to strengthen those too). Although the conference takes place in the US, it also draws significant international attendance. (I met someone from the Victoria & Albert Museum, for example). As well, since we are hosting Wikimania 2012, with a GLAM track, we also want to get the word out to the museum community and continue to strengthen ties.

I strongly encourage the grant advisory committee to approve Sarah's application. Cheers. Aude 22:02, 20 August 2011 (UTC)

No one is saying she don't deserve or she is not capable Aude, we are only asking questions about the grant itself, not the merit or Sarah as a GLAM person. Béria Lima ^msg 22:25, 20 August 2011 (UTC)

I'm just giving my opinion and endorsement and I've left some comments above about the budget. Also, we're planning to organize Wikis Take Atlanta during MCN this year. Sarah will be helping with that. (PS -I'm also going, with a scholarship from MCN, but only $1000 and guess I'll pay the rest out of my own money :/) Aude 22:30, 20 August 2011 (UTC)