Grants talk:PEG/AbhiSuryawanshi/Wikipedia Club Pune

Why Club for Wikipedia in City Like Pune?

Wikipedia Club Pune Launch Poster

Pune came to be referred to as the Oxford of the East due to its large student population, and a large number of quality academic and research institutes.

Along with colleges, Pune is having many happening Student Driven Clubs. And Students participate in Clubs more passionately as compared to colleges. Keeping "Fun Editing" thing in mind, its essential to have Wikipedia Club in Pune.

Response :

We are getting pretty good response for club, Please have a look at - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Wikipedia_Club_Pune#Register

More Details - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikipedia_Club_Pune

Diary :

Behind the scenes of Wikipedia Club Pune http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikipedia_Club_Pune/Diary

Wikipedia Club Pune Diary

Diary of Wikipedia Club Pune. Diary is maintained by Abhishek Suryawanshi

Budget Details

Apart from Training Expenditure, main cost is associated with Sweat-Shirts. Passionate 30 Wikipedian Club Members will represent Wikipedia Club Pune at various college's and festivals. They will conduct regular Wiki Academies for Local Language Schools.Its essential to give them identity cards along with Sweat-Shirt and T-Shirt.

Minimum Target is to 1,000 New Readers/Editors to English and Local Language Wikipedia through various outreach programs.
(Due to India Education Program in Pune,colleges which were not part of Program, are interested in having Workshops for their students).

It will be ideal to give Club Representatives Quality Sweat-shirts and T-Shirts for outreach activities.

Sweat Shirts and T-Shirts

Like Wikipedia,Anyone is welcome to be part of General Member. But Only Regular Wikipedia Passionate (Deserving) Members will get Sweat-shirts.

How to identify active 30 Members? And to make sure that Sweat-shirt and club merchandise is going to right candidate?

Two Day Training will be conducted on 14th January and 15th January 2012. It will cover basics of Wikipedia and other Fun Collaborative Tasks. After Workshop, Specific Tasks and Projects (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikipedia_Club_Pune#Teams_and_Projects) will be assigned,and they have to report weekly.After their continuous participation for two weeks, we will give them Membership Card and Goodies.

Its not our first workshop and not our first club in general, We are hosting "Wikipedia" Workshops from past one year, and we do understand Local People very well. We are giving our best to identify deserving members, and At Last, Its about assuming good faith [WP:Assume Good Faith] .

See Also

Member Selection Preference
After two day workshop - Preference will be given to a applicant who knows following things - What is Wikipedia How does it work? Who edits Wikipedia? How to create a Wikipedia user account and user page? Understand Wikipedia user interface - various tabs like - View History, Edit, Languages, Print, Search box, Info box etc. What are talk pages and discussion pages? Protocol of writing on talk pages and discussion pages. What is a Sandbox? How to create a Sandbox Basic editing, wiki formatting Adding references, citation. How to make the font bold, italics How to insert numbered list How to insert bulleted list How to add headings How to insert tables What are good/bad references? What is copyvio? What is close paraphrasing? How to add internal/external links?

Teams and projects
Group of 5 members and one mentor will form a team. Individuals teams will work on different Indic language Wikipedia and other Wiki-projects. Current proposed projects: English Wikipedia - Group(s) of 5 members along with mentor will work on English Wikipedia. Group can select any favorite topic to work on. Hindi Wikipedia - Group(s) of 5 members along with mentor will work on Hindi Wikipedia. Group can select any favorite topic to work on. Marathi Wikipedia - Group(s) of 5 members along with mentor will work on Marathi Wikipedia. The objective is to improve the quality and increase the number of articles on Marathi Wikipedia. Bengali Wikipedia - Group(s) of 5 members along with mentor will work on Bengali Wikipedia. Gujarati Wikipedia - Group(s) of 5 members along with mentor will work on Gujrati Wikipedia. Wiktionary - Love playing with words? Then Wiktionary section in club is the place for you! Commons - If you don't enjoy writing or editing but would still like to contribute then Commons Group is for you! Upload media files that can be used across all Wikimedia projects in Wikimedia Commons GLAM - GLAM stands for Galleries, Libraries, Archives and Museums. Individuals and groups of photographers, art enthusiasts or people working with any form of media archiving can participate in this project and add their original media to the Wikimedia Commons repository.

Monthly Activities for Club Members
In order to keep membership "active", its necessary to participate in following activities Compulsory to all: Host two Wiki Academies with help fellow club members. January to March 2012 is College Festival Session in Pune.We will target to reach monthly 1,000 new readers/editors. Update Wikipedia Club Pune Page with all activities. Applicable as per Project Participation : MediaWiki Project Members : Update on on-going Wiki Software project to Club Page and to Wikimedia Team. Indic Language Wikipedia Members : Special Outreach Workshops in Marathi and other Language Schools and Colleges Commons Project Members : Have one "Wikipedia Takes Pune" Photoshoot tour of city followed by uploading photos on Wikimedia Commons Core Team of Club : Submit report of all activities on Project Page.

Few questions

Thanks for the submission. It seems like the idea is fine, but some things are really weird to me. I therefore must ask a couple of questions:

1. Why this project is not handled by Wikimedia India? Do you have members of Wikimedia India that will be working on this project?
2. Can you give more detailed explanation on the refreshment costs with amount of $379.36?
3. Do you perhaps know what is the number of students that really would like to participate and how you came up with the numbers of 5 per each language? How do you manage the same figures for languages that have relatively different number of speakers?
4. How long will last this project and when you can have the first effects of the activities done?

You mention that Wikimedia India will support this project, but it's really strange to me that the application is not from the chapter. My last question is mostly about the deadline and the time when you can perform the earliest measures to assess the effects of the project. Best regards.--Kiril Simeonovski 01:00, 28 December 2011 (UTC)

Reply :

I am glad you liked idea.And Here are answers -

• 1.I am member of Wikimedia India Chapter(Member No: INDI-31).As per other Members support is concerned, you can see their support and encouragement to the Club on the Club's Discussion Page. Most of them are Wikimedia Chapter India members.

• 2.We are planning to organize the launch of the Club as a 2 day Wiki academy for 100 people (including newbies, Club mentors and Club volunteers). Participants will be provided with full lunch and evening snacks with tea/coffee. It costs 100(1.89$) Per Head Per Day (Lunch+Snacks).
  For two days its [(2 x 1.89$) x 100 = 378$]. If you think its too high, we can do two of following things:
  i)Restrict Number of Participants to 50 which will bring down 50% cost.
  ii)Charge the Participants to attend workshop, in which case we will not need any funds for refreshments.
  Please advise.

• 3.Languages are selected specifically,depending upon availability of volunteers for club. Currently, We have Campus Ambassadors from Marathi,Bengali,Hindi and Gujrati Background. And These Language Community is strong in Pune.Thats why we have selected these languages. (Also Pune is a student's city we have good number of students who come here from different Indian states like Gujarat, Bengal etc.) Students can go back to Home-State after education, and they can start Club in their own city with respective language (Bengali,Gujrati or Hindi)
  Regarding Equal Number for every group : Again,its based on fact of interested people.There might be 3 Groups of 5 Members who will edit Marathi Wikipedia, and remaining will edit other language Wikipedia. But Ratio of 5 students in one team will remain same.
  And Importantly - In Current scenario, getting 5 Members for each language is not a problem.We have enough interested students. :)

• 4.We will be able to measure the effects of the activities starting from launch of the club, in terms of
  a)How many participants attended our Wiki academy
  b)We will follow-up with participants to check how many of them have started editing after launch of the club.
  c)Regular Activities organized by the club in terms of - Wiki Academies,Outreach sessions, Trivia Nights,Field Visits etc.
  d) "Collaborative Editing" by club members within each group.
  We would want to conduct these activities on a continuous basis throughout year.

Please do let me know if any further clarifications needed. Would be more than happy to answer questions,if any AbhiSuryawanshi 08:55, 28 December 2011 (UTC)

Thanks for the answers. Just another additional questions: What are the other costs you have regarding the project and how do you plan to cover them? What are the savings you have as result of your support by other organizations, institutions, universities, etc.? Best.--Kiril Simeonovski 12:29, 28 December 2011 (UTC)

Reply :

What are the other costs you have regarding the project and how do you plan to cover them?
* Other Major cost associated with Project is "Venue" and Internet Enabled Computer Labs for Workshop.We will be getting Venue and Computer Labs as in-kind (for free of cost).So We havent included cost of Venue/Logistics in Grant Application.

What are the savings you have as result of your support by other organizations, institutions, universities, etc.?
* We are not having savings as we are not supported/funded by other organization, institution, university etc. AbhiSuryawanshi 13:12, 28 December 2011 (UTC)

Thanks. Now everything is clear to me.--Kiril Simeonovski 14:45, 28 December 2011 (UTC)

Old wine in new bottle

The proposal what is presented here is nothing but the already miserably failed campus ambassador program in different name called Club. The person involved is also same and the future also looks same. The main difficulty with them is that they are not having workers and takers in field (the number is only on paper and for showoff).

Why another CLUB? When Poona has already multiple active wiki community platforms why we should go for again new platform called club. I will suggest that Abhishekh should work with the existing active community in Poona for some time and then if the activities grows, based on response the community should recommend having separate wing called CLUB.

There is no point in having many wikipediya platforms and no participants. It only confuses people if we work in fractions. Just a west of energy, time and money. --Bhimraopatil

Questions

• So If I read it right, 30 people will be selected and they will start contributing to WikiProjects further carry out outreach activities. How effective do you think would it be if members who are new to wikipedia themselves, go around and conduct outreach events, given the fact that physical outreach in general even when conducted by experienced wikipedians don't get enough people to contribute.
• How are you planning to select members of the club, when you are a newbie yourself. "After two day workshop - Preference will be given to a applicant who knows following things". If someone doesn't know the things you listed after 2 days workshop, the workshop is failure.
• Why is it the cap of 30 people set? Wouldnt that send across wrong signals to 70 others who attend and demotivate them not to contribute to Wikipedia.
• You had mentioned you have been doing workshops for the past one year, Can you give some results along with some numbers from it? (Please do not include students who came to Wikipedia through India Education Program, its an altogether different story)
• Can you tell what are the expenses thats required for conducting "Wikipedia Love City" / trivia nights? Wikipedia loves city is being done by many and it just needs bunch of people with camera to walk around and click pictures AFAIK.
• In-numerous Wikipedia academies / workshops have been conducted, and people who generally come to these don't expect food at all. Places where these are conducted typically would be colleges where people would buy food for themselves. There is no need to even collect money.
• "The objective is to improve the quality and increase the number of articles on XXXX Wikipedia" -- This seems to be very abstract and templated. Can you share something more specific in detail and something more measurable?.
• I find it odd that 35% of the grant is requested for Swags like T-Shirts that too for just 30 people. Usually these will be under "non financial requirements" on most grants. People who edit Wikipedia world over, dont expect anything when they edit and giving assurance that a member might get merchandise seems like Paid editing to me. What do you think?
• All the activities you had mentioned in grant have been done voluntarily for ages by 100's of people without expecting anything. Why do you think this grant needs funding? Logicwiki 14:29, 28 December 2011 (UTC)

Reply :

• Instead of Not doing outreach because experienced Wikipedians failed (to gather quality editors) in past, I would prefer to learn from their experience and mistakes to have effective and inspiring outreach on new level to get new Young Editors.

• Members : They will select whether to join club or not. Only Active Members after Workshop will be awarded with membership of club. 30 number we are targetting, because instead of managing 1,000 members, its easy to monitor 30 members.
  In other scenario - If 30+ Members are active, then we will be more than happy to enroll them. Its not about to demotivate its about encouraging to be active and participate effectively.I dont want Club to be like Garden, where anyone can walk in and walk out.I want it to be like Semi Protected Page, where people get right to participate only after certain edits/participation. According to me - Semi-Protected Pages on Wikipedia's are not to demotivate newbies-But to monitor quality of article and to encourage newbies to edit regularly.Same will be applicable to club.
• I dont see India Education Program is different story! We will give our best to minimize mistakes happened during India Education Program. Thats why we are starting with low number and Curated Audience.
• Major cost is associated with Field Visits and Trivia Nights.We wont be getting free venue for Trivia Nights and food part also we have to manage. Proposed money is for whole year activities.
• Wiki Academies will be for free of cost, without food! and No Food will be given,even if people ask. We are giving food to Potential Club Members, people who will be conducting monthly workshop. And will be doing Outreach throughout year.
• Regarding Sweat-shirts : Club Members will go from college to college to Host "Free WikiAcademies", and they will be face of Club as well as Wikipedia.Its essential to give them I-Card along with T-Shirt/Sweat-shirt, so they can be spotted easily. If you want me to put it under "Non Financial Requirements" then It okay, I would be more than happy to get it under that section only.
• Again, I dont want to comment about activities done by others,Everyone has their own way to work out things. At max, I can learn from their experience.
  No Club is active in India, and I believe Wikipedia Club concept will be popular in India, And We will be having more Indian Content on Wikipedia.

Before 11 years, World was not having Wikipedia, still World was working in fine way.It was started with concept "anyone" can edit Wikipedia, and after 11 years, Wikipedia is workd's 5th biggest website, still we have to complete Globe from Wikipedia Logo.

How much time it takes to remove darkness from room, if its dark from 20 years?
It wont take another 20 years to remove darkness, simple key to light can remove all darkness within seconds. It wont be apppropriate underestimate idea of club,because there is darkness with Indian Content.I believe Wikipedia Club thing will act as "Ray of Hope" and will remove all darkness over period of time.
It wont remove all darkness within seconds/months, but it will be in new direction for sure.Its not about where you are,but in which direction you are.As of now through Club we will be heading in right direction for sure.
Its about small belief and hope that creates most magical things in world.

Please do let me know if any further clarifications needed. Would be more than happy to answer questions,if any AbhiSuryawanshi 15:33, 28 December 2011 (UTC)

Just a quick comment: you did very well to budget for the shirts as part of the grant, please don't change that.

And, Logicwiki: I'm not sure what you mean by your last comment -- it sounds like you begrudge any activity that has expenses associated with it? We are grateful that our volunteers donate their time and skills, but they should not have to make out of pocket expenses on things like travel, food, etc., when they are doing Wikimedian work. Of course some volunteers have had the means to do all this, including covering travel expenses etc., without asking for funding from the Foundation; that's great! But it should not be a norm nor a requirement we hold everything to. Ijon 18:42, 28 December 2011 (UTC)

Food was budgeted for "prospective club members" (There is also a chance that not all club members might be wikimedians). Any person who has internet access and interest to contribute can certainly afford food in any part of world IMO. My question on paid editing is unanswered yet. I am too tired for the day, I shall come back tomorrow. Logicwiki 21:46, 28 December 2011 (UTC)

Thanks Asaf for quick comment.

Logicwiki : We will make sure that all Club Members are Wikimedians. And Club Members will make sure that Every Other College Student becomes Wikimedian in future.And regarding,all other queries - Its all about trust,hope and positivity :) AbhiSuryawanshi 01:35, 29 December 2011 (UTC)

Old wine in new bottle

The proposal what is presented here is nothing but the already miserably failed campus ambassador program in different name called Club. The person involved is also same and the future also looks same. The main difficulty with them is that they are not having workers and takers in field (the number is only on paper and for showoff).

Why another CLUB? When Poona has already multiple active wiki community platforms why we should go for again new platform called club. I will suggest that Abhishekh should work with the existing active community in Poona for some time and then if the activities grows, based on response the community should recommend having separate wing called CLUB.

There is no point in having many wikipediya platforms and no participants. It only confuses people if we work in fractions. Just a west of energy, time and money. --Bhimraopatil

Was going to refrain from commenting here as i am on record elsewhere as a strong detractor of the IEP, but Bhimrao has opened the subject, so let me continue. The IEP, Pune / Campus Ambassador program failed and was scrapped (for the time being) in major part because of the inexperience of the people involved. It took a long time for GEP/WMF to accept that it was a disaster but they do seem to have accepted that. Now we have this grant proposal, from the same group for establishing a club, with a similar mission of "improving wikipedia". The club organisers dont have the editing experience to conduct academies and teach other newbies what is wikipedia. This was demonstrated in the IEP time and again and has been hammered by multiple en wiki editors and admins trying to clean up the mess IEP has left - campus ambassadors lack the training and editing experience. Now the same group (without any addition to its editing experience) is going to conduct outreach and guide newbies. And they have even less experience (almost nil) in the regional language wikipedias.

It is nice to see that they have put a lowered the numbers radically this time, but the experience problem remains unaddressed. All the current club members put together have less than 1000 mainspace edits in en wiki. It worries me that they are going to be conducting academies and actively guiding new members to edit the english and regional language wikipedias when their earlier (albeit bigger) attempt at the same thing had to be scrapped after a bad backlash from the en wiki community. Except for Ashlin, who has signed up to be a "mentor" there is no one with even moderate editing experience in this group. Have we had enough damage caused by the previous effort?--Sodabottle 07:05, 29 December 2011 (UTC)

Reply

I am glad to have opinions from Bala(Sodabottle). Thank you for understanding our efforts and accepting our request for help.

Its nice to see, Experienced Editors are coming forward to help, instead of criticizing and blaming us for past mistakes.
We made mistakes,we learned from them.Its time to correct mistakes!
Support and Encouragement is driving fuel to such activities.

I would be happy to answer all queries regarding Wikipedia Club Pune.

Keep Supporting,Keep Inspiring! AbhiSuryawanshi 11:16, 29 December 2011 (UTC)

Please dont mischaracterize my reply. I offered to help you online - if and when you edit. Don't take this as support for the club per se. I will do that for any newbie or experienced editor who asks for my help onwiki. I still dont think you have experience to conduct workshops or academies and guiding newbies. You are repeating one of the biggest mistakes of IEP - running a program which you have no qualifications for.

For the record let me state again - This club shoudln't be conducting any academies, workshops. period. They dont know what wikipedia is and having them teach other newbies will cause exactly the same results the IEP caused - a mess.--Sodabottle 14:38, 29 December 2011 (UTC)

I suggest you start first a editing/content creation only club - which needs actual members editing wikipedia - no outreach by newbies, no 60k rs budget, no academies. If you can find colleges willing to organise workshops for their students, ask the india chapter (or the pune community editors like ashlin) to send experienced wikipedians to help you out. The chapter already has a academy program up and running, where workshops are being conducted by experienced wikipedians. This way you can focus on editing and gaining actual knowledge of wikipedia instea.--Sodabottle 14:47, 29 December 2011 (UTC)

Wikipedia Club Pune!

Invitation to Join Wikipedia Club Pune!

Dear India Education Program Followers, Your contribution(s) and passion towards Wikipedia is amazing! We made mistakes during India Education Program,Participant Number was high,no experienced editors/Ambassadors and many others... India Education Program Team is designing newer version of Program. Inbetween,Before IEP 2.0, We are planning to launch "Small" Wikipedia Club Pune. With limited 25 Number of students,and with experienced editors/mentors. I want Wikipedia to be a better place, I want to increase quality content on Wikipedia.But problem is (according to some people) I dont have enough experience, I am ready to accept the fact! I am newbie! But Today's Newbie one day will be experienced editor! And As newbie if I stop doing work, and stop editing Wikipedia, If I stop everything - How I am going to get Experience?? Please allow us to learn from our own mistakes,We want to correct our mistakes. And Wikipedia Club Pune is small effort with 25 students and 5+ mentors. We are having so much knowledge in India, but thats not available on Wikipedia. If we are not going to update it through our efforts, then who else is going to update that! There are two kind of people, who make fun of failed things, and who suggests improvements to failed things to avoid mistakes, I am glad to see all of yours positive behavior and suggestions to make Wikipedia a better place. All of us are working towards common goal,ways might be different,lets collaborate to have Better Wikipedia.Country with 1.2Billion people deserves better Wikipedia. As a experienced Editors and Veteran Wikipedians,I would love to invite all of you to Wikipedia Club Pune We would be graceful to have your guidance and support to make Wikipedia a better place. Wikipedia Club Pune will be fun place to edit and collaborate with like minded editors and contributors. Club will be also having exclusive interesting Activities for members. For More details, Please visit http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikipedia_Club_Pune P.S : I was expecting someone else/experienced to start efforts to improve Wikipedia, but later on I realized everyone is busy, and If I started efforts, I might get support from experienced one's. Better to start things instead of waiting for someone to start,thats what I believe. As you are experienced one,And you also believe in improving Wikipedia,Lets work together.If you are doing similar kind of activities,Please do let us know, We would be more than happy to join and Help. And if you believe and if you Assume good faith , Please Register Your Name on Wikipedia Club Pune's Discussion Page! Keep Editing, Keep Inspiring! AbhiSuryawanshi (talk) 11:34, 29 December 2011 (UTC)

And As newbie if I stop doing work, and stop editing Wikipedia, If I stop everything - How I am going to get Experience??

No one is stopping you from editing wikipedia except yourself. Your contributions prove that clearly you have been here for months and haven't edited. The reason you dont have experience (and the qualifications to teach others) is YOU haven't edited. You are interested in organising events where you will teach others about wikipedia before you yourself know about it. We all saw how that worked out for the IEP. First get some editing experience, learn what wikipedia is and then think about teaching others. Wikipedia is about building an encyclopedia - a serious business. Wikipedia is not a networking tool, a social media site, not a fun club running opportunity and definitely not a place for people teaching other people when they have no wikipedia experience themselves.--Sodabottle 13:41, 30 December 2011 (UTC)

Only and Only Experienced Wikipedian's will "teach" Wikipedia(not me). AbhiSuryawanshi 16:03, 30 December 2011 (UTC)

Incorrect representation

< deleted vide apology below > AshLin 14:17, 29 December 2011 (UTC)

No Doubt about Pune Communities support. Whatever is happening, and Whatever I am, thats because of Pune Community. Extreme Apologies for not writing diary in detail. AbhiSuryawanshi 14:55, 29 December 2011 (UTC)

STOP this CLUB immediately

What I can see is this guy Abhishekh is innocent, immature and quite young. Wikipedia should not afford to keep on experimenting for his personal ambitions. As mention by Mr. Patil above, ask him to work under existing platform. Ask him to prove himself and then with consent of all existing senior wikipedians in Poona (We have many in Poona) allow any further separate activity.

The CLUB in its formation itself has started creating problems in Poona community. We should STOP this immediately other wise it will create more problems in future. Wikipedia is not a platform for fulfilling personal ambitions, playing politics, creating groups, power play, etc… There must be one umbrella. Kamble 05:14, 30 December 2011 (UTC)

Way to Go!

ThanksAbhiSuryawanshi for showing us how to convert 'friendship' into 'club-ship',for showing us a brilliant way of 'working-together',for realizing the fact that 'knowledge is something,which is to be shared', and even more for implementing what exactly you have realized. Thanks for being matured enough to show the world,that not all young people are afraid of being matured and taking up responsibilities.

Make sure,that Wikipedia Club Pune doesn't turn into just another Club. Make it Special!

I would love to have similar kind of activities in Kolkata also. Shall be hoping your help for that.

All the very best with everything.

Way to go AbhiSuryawanshi !!

Keep Sharing. Keep Inspiring.

-Regards,

Sucheta Ghoshal 10:27, 4 January 2012 (UTC)

Thank you so much for comment and support, and Yes,After amazing support from everywhere including Experienced Administrators - It will be special for sure!
Keep Supporting,Keep Inspiring! :-) AbhiSuryawanshi 13:01, 4 January 2012 (UTC)

The local community, hierarchy, and facts

I see a lot of impassioned talk on this page, but little attention seems to be paid to facts. Allow me to make a few (factual, I hope) statements that I would like to serve as a basis for continued debate (and please make sure to remain civil and assume good faith) --

1. Abhishek, by his own admission, is a newbie.
2. The local community has veteran Wikipedians.
3. Abhishek proposes veteran Wikipedians, not himself, as trainers. He does not, however, identify those trainers, nor does he state he has already secured any number of such trainers in the target languages.
4. The local community seems to think a Wikipedian, however young or new, needs permission to do volunteer work. This is false.
5. This is a grant proposal; money is being sought from the Wikimedia Foundation to fund some expenses related to this proposal. The WMF may or may not decide to approve this request, and the community's opinion is certainly a component in the WMF's evaluation of the viability and efficiency of this proposal. The WMF welcomes the community's input on this proposal. However, a message like "STOP this CLUB", for instance, is less than constructive -- it does not adequately address the stated facts, and it does not suggest how the goals could be achieved otherwise. (Saying "these are unachievable goals with our current resources" is also a valuable assessment, but no one has said that either.)

I would encourage everyone to address their comments to these facts, and make suggestions or criticism related to this. Thank you. Asaf Bartov (WMF Grants) talk 19:18, 30 December 2011 (UTC)

Asaf,

I am not a local community member and i dont share the "they need permission" view. But i will point out where my opposition comes from:

• This club is continuation of the campus ambassadors group from the failed (and temporarily scrapped) IEP program. One of the major reasons for its failure was the inexperience of the CAs and people involved. They could not guide the newbies properly and it led to a mess of gigantic proportions that is still being cleaned up. Now the same group is planning to do the same thing with WMF funding (though in a small scale). The CAs have protested loudly everytime criticism was raised, but till date have not started editing wikipedia semi seriously. The IEP placed unnecessary emphasis on the "social networking" part of the wikipedia experience and ignored the actual project building part - this club is merely an extension of that misguided policy.
• The experience factor remains unaddressed. It is not like the club members don't know that there is opposition to inexperienced people taking academies/guiding newbies. This point has been raised multiple times with regards to IEP. Even in this grant, the proposer has conceded that he will get "veteran wikipedians" only after i raised the issue. Before that he was proposing, he and his fellow inexperienced members take the academies. As you point out, he hasnt been able to secure any experienced wikipedian to do that.
• Several of the club's proposed activities duplicate existing programs. Pune has an active local community which is already doing some of the things and the Wikimedia India chapter has an active and successful academy program running. So this club will duplicate the effort by inexperienced people.
• This club proposes editing regional language wikis - none of the club members, mentors, "core group" have any experience in regional language wikis.
• This entire proposal looks like an idea for a social club and having a good time at WMF donor expense. The people involved are not serious wikipedians. They are just people who like to talk about wikipedia, without knowing what wikipedia is. They have had months to actually do something good for Wikipedia. They haven't. The grant proposer has been around for nearly a year now. He has less than 300 article space edits to en wiki. The rest put together have even less!. Their contributions clearly show that they are not here to improve the encyclopedia - only to make something for themselves out of it. For people wanting to "remove darkness" from India etc, they have done NO ACTUAL EDITING. The grant proposer suggests that denying him this grant will be equivalent to stopping him from editing wikipedia. IMO, plain blackmail - give me money or i will stop editing wikipedia (the irony is he has no editing experience to speak of). Everytime this point is raised, AGF is being brought up. Well as the saying goes, AGF is not a suicide pact.

In summary this club has two angles a) editing and b)outreach. I have clearly demonstrated that this group has minimum interest in editing and has no experience for outreach. So what is left is just a social networking club with swag and funding from WMF.

IMO, a WMF grant should be given to people who have demonstrated atleast minimum commitment to improving the project - the grant proposer and the club members clearly have not. Their previous effort at IEP was not only a failure, but has created massive messes that remain uncleared to date. WMF should not be funding student social networking clubs from donor money. 60,000 rupees is a lot of money in India. If this grant gets funded, it will set a bad precedent that PR and personal promotion alone are enough to milk money out of WMF. --Sodabottle 08:46, 31 December 2011 (UTC)

I am not a local community member either and I for one strictly oppose hierarchy openly but my concern here is on "eligibility"

• I would pause my reply to comment on "inspiring outreach" since the plan was modified after discussions in this page. It infact calls for rework on grant even if other points are clear. But please read further.
• I would say the same point about Semi Protection,en:WP:AUTOCONFIRM(parallels in real world) status to Abhishek. Please do some more work onwiki before going for outreach.
• If Abhishek doesnt see a difference between IEP and this, I would urge all the more to hold on before starting any program / club since comprehensive learnings from IEP are yet to be published. However people are free to edit
• "The objective is to improve the quality and increase the number of articles on XXXX Wikipedia" -- This seems to be very abstract and templated. Can you share something more specifics in detail and something more measurable?. -- This was unanswered in my previous comment.
• I will still hold my comments on "no free food" for anyone. I am not commenting on swags since it might be modified since there might be a change on outreach.
• Overall, I would still maintain that all the intended activities can be done without funding. Its not that all people who did photowalks/outreach didnt know about grants / burnt their pockets(If they did, they wouldnt have continued their efforts). It just doesnt cost anything practically. Logicwiki 09:43, 31 December 2011 (UTC)

My two cents

After careful consideration of this grant, I do feel a bit nervous about recommending it be accepted in its current form. The prime concern I have, which has been echoed above, is that experienced Wikimedians on the ground are in my view essential if outreach activities are to succeed. Without wanting to in any way denigrate the contributions of the grant applicant, I do not think that they have the experience themselves to conduct outreach successfully. It has been suggested that other, more experienced people could do this work, however I would be more comfortable seeing a concrete commitment from whomever these people might be before proceeding. I would suggest that these experienced types, if available, mentor other local volunteers in how to do outreach, to increase the available pool of qualified trainers.

It would also be helpful to my mind to see some sort of endorsement from the board of Wikimedia India, rather than just a whole bunch of people saying "hey, that's a cool idea!". If they do not want to endorse it formally, why not?

My other concern is the large focus on "goodies" like sweatshirts and other gifts. Call me cynical, but I am skeptical of the value of the "give people free stuff and they will contribute" school of thought. In my mind, if this is to be the main draw the club will attract people who are interested in free stuff, rather than people who are passionate about the Wikimedia mission.

On the plus side, the budget does look well done to my mind and a quick back-of-the-envelope conversion the amounts look to be fair and reasonable - no problems there! I do also like the focus on Indic-language Wikipedias rather than just the English website. I do think that the idea has potential, but I would need the above concerns addressed before I could recommend it proceed. Craig Franklin 13:10, 31 December 2011 (UTC).

• Thanks for two cents. I have cleared important facts about club's current form in my new post.
• Administrators (from English Wikipedia as well as Outreach) will be with Club for all activities including training.
• No newbie for training or outreach, Only and Only. Experienced Administrators will conduct training.
• Only (and only) Passionate Wikipedians (after proving themselves) will get Sweat-shirts/t-shirt and ID Card.
• Hope so I have addressed all concerns, If you have any other concerns or doubts, please do let me know.

Keep Suggesting,Keep Inspiring!  :) AbhiSuryawanshi 13:29, 1 January 2012 (UTC)

Thankyou for the reply. Can I assume that User:Srikeit and User:Rangilo Gujarati are the admins you're talking about? I'm not familiar with the latter, but I have been impressed by the contributions of the former and if he is on board with this, then my concerns will be satisfied somewhat. Craig Franklin 08:52, 3 January 2012 (UTC).

Yes.Both of them are on board, and they have agreed to provide full "on-ground" training & support. User:Srikeit agreed to conduct special training sessions. And Thank you so much for reply :) AbhiSuryawanshi 09:36, 3 January 2012 (UTC)

Comment : Adminship on outreach wiki doesn't necessarily seem to have a criteria, Apparently there are 196 admins and only 85 active users. Its not to point out User:Rangilo_Gujarati, he is as much new as other CA's, but doing relatively decent job among the CA's, this comment was just to throw light to people who are not aware of adminship norms on outreach wiki Logicwiki 10:21, 3 January 2012 (UTC)

Since you have identified only 2 members for outreach, do you still think you need 30 swag tees/sweat shirts? Logicwiki 09:52, 3 January 2012 (UTC)

Comments

Hi,

I would like to start of by mentioning that I have spoken to Abhishek of this prior to this proposal being made. He has worked very hard during WCI - managing the hotels by himself, being woken up in the middle of the night on all the nights to sort stuff out. I commend him for his commitment to the project and am sure he has put this request in with the best of interests. However,

• I am worried about the fact that there is only ONE Wikipedian experienced with English Wikipedia (Ashlin) part of this club and the club wishes to hold academies! I cant comment on the indic aspect as I dont know the number of experienced editors involved there.
• I am worried that if this grant were to go through, it would set a very bad precedent in India like Sodabottle/logicwiki mentioned. People have been doing offline work since 2008 - and all these initiatives have been zero or low budget and self funded (with the exception of Wikipedia X). What is the need of these freebies? If at all they are to be given, I would like to see some activity from the club members first. I am scared that people might accept the freebies and never show their faces until the next lot of freebies are distributed - we dont want it to be equivalent to paid editing. I am not saying dont give money - WCI, where I was majorly involved received a large grant without which, we could not have conducted the event and we are greatful to the WMF for that. WMF has money and its great if its spent on the movement in India, albeit, we need to ensure its spent in the right places and in the right quantity.
• I would suggest rather than procure freebies for each city, we do it on a nationwide basis to have negotiating muscle. For example, WCI paid INR 110 per t-shirt (750 ts), however this proposal mentions INR 250 - which Im sure is the going rate for 30 ts. However I would like to reiterate that there need to be a mechanism to make sure that these freebies go to those who have done a fair bit of activity already.
• Sodabottle mentioned INR 60,000 is a big amount in India, I would tend to disagree with the general statement. In a city like Mumbai, bootstrapping a club with INR 60,000 is like granting peanuts. Im sure this may be different in other parts of our large and diverse country.
• I dont like the idea of providing for everything including local transportation. We have regular meetups across the world and I am yet to hear of one city community that pays for local transport - there needs to be some certain minimum commitment from Wikipedians - I cannot believe that someone with internet access (only 8% of Indians have internet access) cannot spare money for local travel or a meal outside.
• The idea of people being chosen to be members smells of exclusivity to me. I dont like the idea of choosing members and would like that to be a more inclusive and transparent process. I can understand the club management being in the hands of experienced Wikipedians, but surely membership should not be by invite only. For example, if you want to limit membership you could limit the number of members by edit count or by making sure none of them have been pulled up for copy vios or vandalism in the last 6 months, that they understand they Wikipedia Philosophy and that it be on a first come first served basis with a minimum number of activities required for membership renewal.

I am not against giving out grants such as this per say, though I would like to be more cautious about them to make sure that the foundation is not milked and the funds go to what the donors have pledged them for. To reiterate, I am in no way implying Abhishek has the wrong intentions, I am just basing my comments on the proposal itself and some previous comments, having been requested to give my views. Cheers, AroundTheGlobe 13:30, 31 December 2011 (UTC)

Answers :

Answers and Facts

Experience Training We are having two Administrators and sysops to conduct the training. On Ground training will be given by Experienced Admin on English Wikipedia Also for training, we are supported by Administrator from Wikimedia Outreach. Indic Language Wikipedia I am fortunate enough that I am able to read whatever is typed here, but I have many people around me who cant read and (sometimes born with disabilities), For them I am glad to see Spoken Wikipedia exists, Article Number is very less and in some Indic languages its very low. To start with small, We are going to upload Pronunciations.Regarding Pronunciations upload - Training will be given by persons who have already donated his voice to many pronunciations on Wikipedia. One Pronunciation file can be used on any language (including indic) Wikipedia. In India, People are not having internet,additionally they cant read.Its essential to have Spoken Wikipedia in Indic Languages. Newbies No Newbie but "Experienced Administrators" will conduct training sessions.And Number of Members will be just 25 Only!(Reasons already given several times) Support Apart from Anonymous WikiBullying e-mails and few supportive talk-page comment, We are getting Venue,Computer Labs and Well Equipped Recording Room for free of cost to run the Club Activities.They are future Wikipedians and from now onwards they Assume Good Faith. Also Along with Club-Concept-Newbies, I would be more than happy to see comments from Experienced Person with existing Wikipedia Club Experience. Bottom Line Only Curated 25 Members will be part of club. Will be trained (on-ground) by Administrators[1][2] with Help of Others. No Newbie is going to conduct any training/outreach.(Only and Only Experienced Wikipedians and Administrators will conduct training/outreach session.) Along with these, We will be having support from Editors and Veteran Wikipedians. [1], [2],[3], [4]. Apart from existing experienced Wikipedian support, if anyone experienced wants to join,You are more than welcome :) Keep Exploring, Keep Inspiring! AbhiSuryawanshi 07:32, 1 January 2012 (UTC)

Some background on Wikipedian student organizations

For all, here is a little background on Wikipedian student organizations: "Wikipedian student organizations" are a loose association of student groups with diverse goals and activities aligned in some way with Wikimedia or Wikipedia. In some cases, student organizations may share ties with formal education programs and in other cases they do not. Wikipedian student organizations are not officially endorsed by Wikimedia Foundation, but as most are mission-aligned groups we do encourage them to apply for funding for specific mission-aligned activities through the WMF grants program. Wikipedian student organizations may (in theory) range from very informal associations of students to registered nonprofit organizations and may be purely social, or may be groups of experienced Wikipedians making significant contributions as editors. They may be open or exclusive, small or large, formal or informal. WMF generally considers these organizations to be a good way to encourage interest in the projects among students. To this end, we've been trying to grow a community of student organizations on Outreach Wiki.

Wolliff 00:34, 5 January 2012 (UTC)

A few suggestions regarding your proposal

Abishek, thank you for your proposal and for your work in Pune! I'm very impressed with the work you've already put into this project and with the level of interest you seem to have generated, and I'm really looking forward to hearing more about your efforts. You've already posted a page for your club and a membership list, which are great first steps. A good next step would be to host a less formal open call event to gauge interest in membership. WMF is happy to send you the buttons and stickers you've already requested for this purpose. It might be a more practical place to start than the more elaborate workshop you've proposed.

On an additional note, we generally do not encourage student groups to apply for this type of general "start up grant", but rather to apply for funding for specific mission-aligned activities. I recommend withdrawing your grant as written or reframing the proposal to focus specifically on an activity for which you seek funding.

If you still think a more elaborate outreach event like the one you're proposing is needed, please consider the following suggestions and address them in your proposal:

• Rename your grant to emphasize that you are requesting funding for an outreach event / workshop, not what appears to be a "start up grant" for your student organization.
• Are the tshirts and sweatshirts for club members really needed? Is there a way the club members can fund the purchase of these themselves? I recommend removing them from the budget unless there is a very clear reason for keeping them there. Club members could be identified with pins, for example, that would be much cheaper to produce.
• What are the specific activities you are intending to fund in the amount of 142.26 USD? (These should be planned activities with dates, participants, and budgets, that are scheduled to occur. They would be best listed in a separate request.)
• Kindly provide a detailed breakdown of the costs of printed materials in the amount of 94.98 USD.
• Consider carefully whether the scale of your event is realistic. 100 seems like a large number! If the scale of the event were reduced, you could cut the costs of printed materials and refreshments considerably. (I see that you've opened registration for the event. What kind of response have you gotten so far?)
• Most importantly, if there is sufficient interest on campus to start the club, why is it necessary to host an expensive outreach event? If there is not sufficient interest, how will your club be successful in the longterm?

Wolliff 00:34, 5 January 2012 (UTC)

A small Comment

While, I choose to see this in a positive way, of helping the movement, as stated by others, 60k is a large amount for this matter. While Abhi shows a lot of enthusiasm, I wish he showed it by editing, uploading, etc. FIRST. Abhi, do consider supporting the movement. A club is normally not an exclusive event, especially NOT for Wikipedia/Wikimedia. I suggest you keep this a free and open for all event. Forget t-shirts, and other paraphernalia for now. All that is unimportant. The important thing here is to FOCUS on getting constructive contributions to Wikipedia. ----Rsrikanth05 (talk) 10:48, 5 January 2012 (UTC)

A few clarifications

Addressing all the above concerns by both experienced Wikipedians and the WMF, I thought I'd just clarify a few things. First let me claim, for the benefit of Sodabottle and Logicwiki that I myself am a newbie.

So, I am also one of the so-called feared campus ambassador and I have only around 255 article edits while my edit-count is around 1,160. I consider myself a Wikiogre and have a busy life with exams running around my neck but still I find time to edit Wikipedia. You may check out my contribs, no copyvios and I'd say, I've helped put in material to Wikipedia and also helped cleanup the mess of IEP, which was stopped only in one college but successful in others esp, mine, Symbiosis School of Economics, where I was the assigned CA. I'm not interested in trying to snub anybody but I've been trying to learn good editing from experienced editors like AshLin, Kudpung, Naveenpf etc, as well as managing other admin related activity like fighting vandalism as well as detecting copyvios and helping out protect Wikipedia. I've also tried to learn the policies to understand Wikipedia. For WMF statistics, I must say, as I newbie, its only my passion, the passion of the CA group, Hisham as well as Nitika's positive re-encouragement and well as the support of AshLin and Naveenpf. Otherwise, I have faced nothing but backlash and discouragement, hence, I can understand as to why WMF statistics state that newbies are decreasing.

As per the Club, let me give the following points:

1. Comments like "Stop this Club immediately" is deeply non-constructive and hurting - We are genuinely trying to increase editors and content on Wikipedia and such discouragement even before we start is not really required.
2. Inexperience for conducting Outreach and Editing: Well, don't mind me saying this, WP:AGF but I am not retired, I don't have the whole day to give to Wikipedia. I give well and above 5hours a week, except in time of my exams as I am a student. This goes for almost all the CA's as well as the other members in the Organizing committee of the Club. Asking people to edit in Wikipedia requires you to know basic wiki editing, a few policies and a bit of guidance if required. As per questions raised, all the CA's have been trained by "WMF" in terms of outreach. Till date, we conducted the single largest outreach in India but we do have the capability to do that. Whether it was a success or failure can't be judged from the outreach point of view. When you set up a stall in an expo, and ask people to edit and if you point out the severity of WP:Copyvio or that of quality and they decide to do otherwise, how can you blame the people conducting the outreach. Even the WMF states that the problems were not foreseen by them either, then how can you blame us? We are not babysitters, volunteer CA's facing constant discouragement. We have also been trained in basic editing and entry of content into Wikipedia, which we refined when we tried fighting the problems and clearing of the destructive content. I myself rigorously checked over 200 editors, far more than I was required to, because of my passion for Wikipedia. I hope that establishes passion, the intent to do good and ability to conduct outreach. But if inspite of this, the community wants us to wait till say I have 10,000 edits, well, I'd rather say, its an opportunity lost to tap the youth into editing Wikipedia. The message then is: Spread the idea of Wikipedia only when you are experienced.
3. Experienced editors: We had always decided to go on the mentor-ship route before anyone asked us to.

Currently, we have as experienced editors, who've signed up to mentor the students, as

• AshLin - English
• MikeLynch - English & Sanskrit
• Srikeit - English
• Jayantanth - Bengali

Check out: [1]

There are more, whom I might not be aware about, but no one is starting anything in any Wiki, English or otherwise without a mentor.

1. The social networking clause is hurting, frankly, don't mind me saying this, Facebook, Twitter are much much better, and I'd have to go crazy to start a social network in Wikipedia, I fell off laughing to this point. As per Wiki love, its a positive re-encouragement which I wish I got from experienced editors more often to encourage me to edit me more on Wiki instead of trying to deter me so heartily.
2. Abhishek might not have that much editing experience, but he has proved his mettle time and again when it comes to organizing events. If it helps the WMF to decide, he not only played a significant part in the Mumbai Conference, but is also the Curator for Ted in Pune. I believe he is competent enough.
3. Logicwiki: The membership is restricted based on edit count, but not only based on edit count as in adding a comma or quotes. But adding useful content to Wikipedia. Anybody who can keep up with the requirements which we will impose on ourselves also will be a formal member of the club. Those who can't will be provided support by us but won't be a formal member. The reason, using of positive re-encouragement to make a person active and keep him active.
4. Food, we wanted the participants to feel welcome, maybe we can cut down on that. But the tshirts I support. Its not edit Wikipedia and get a tshirt, but because of your constant editing in Wikipedia, you get a tshirt. These will only be given when formal members seem to have enough editing done. The reason, kill two birds with one stone. Give them a positive encouragement as well as promote Wikipedia and the club so that when people see other people in tshirts, it spreads the message.
5. We are not saying give us funding or else. But it will be difficult to launch this without funding. Its actually not that large an amount like AroundTheGlobe mentioned. Keep in mind, its for the whole year.
6. If there was not sufficient interest, we would not file a grant, but Abhishek can perhaps provide further details of that.
7. Pins are not a bad idea, but tshirts more vibrantly display the required information. In a country with so much population, a picture is worth a billion words.
8. As per the cost of the tshirts, if anyone knows where we can get cheaper tshirts but not too bad quality in Pune, please provide us the info.

Understand, we shall create the Club with or without this Grant, if you want to help or be a part of it, you are welcome. The grant would really help us in our way and the outreach might not be as successful without it. For those who are against it. Thanks for your opinion, we shall take it seriously and have already incorporated it with the mentor model and low number of editors. So we aren't blunt, we are dynamic and our passion for Wikipedia is evidently visible. I can never teach anyone how to destroy Wikipedia, when I myself fight Vandalism on a regular basis. But, I'd really like some encouragement to the newbies. As Jimbo even stated, that we need to be more welcoming.

Sorry for the long post, but this still increases my edit count by 1, which just shows how irrelevant a measure it is for judging contributions.

--Debastein 08:33, 8 January 2012 (UTC)

Question

I still don't understand why you want it to be exclusive. Also, since you have said that you SHALL create the Club, with or without the grant, you imply that you don't need it. ----Rsrikanth05 (talk) 11:29, 10 January 2012 (UTC)

Reply:

Exclusive because its better to have 30 interested editors making constant contributions than 100 non-interested editors, gathering together for social fun and not really contributing at all or very minimal. Everyone is encouraged, its not that we discourage anyone, but if you want to be in the club you have to do your part. If all 100 people do their part, then the club shall have 100 people, but if only 5 are serious, let there be 5 people. Also we shall start it because we are passionate about Wikipedia. The organizers might pitch in, but even our resources are limited and we won't be able to go too far. Hence, the grant is very much required to make the club of repute and keep the momentum once its started, but as per starting the club, we will try our best without the grant. I still don't understand what the issue is, we have the support of the Pune community, have experienced editors on board and I think the idea is pretty good and will catch up to the rest of the country soon. I see one editor wants to do something similar in Kolkata, i.e. Sucheta which tells you that the idea is already catching up.

I don't understand why this grant can't be funded with possible re-negotiation as I hope to have addressed most of the issues. If there is any point of contradiction or a point which requires clarification, please post. I am however, not going to bother myself with answering to personal opinions such as how incapable we are or not. If experience is the issue, I feel we have enough for 30 students, four very experienced editors are there to mentor, am sure will find more along the way, and we have over 10 trained CA's for ground and online support along with the mentors. I do feel we pack the experience. We also have India chapter members in this, Abhishek for one is, I myself am, IN-135. --Debastein 20:28, 10 January 2012 (UTC)

Question
I Fail to see your point.

• What does this have to do with the Chapter? I'm not a Chapter Member, but I'm still part of Wiki outreach programs.
• About being incapable, I believe your capabilities will be proved by the QUALITY of your edits.
• Has Sucheta asked for a Grant?
• What makes you so sure that 30 people will help out. Getting thirty newcomers trained, is one thing, but I hope you know that Wikimedia/Wikipedia editors are born out of passion and not mere training.

My two paise. ----Rsrikanth05 (talk) 10:56, 11 January 2012 (UTC)

Reply:

• I mentioned the chapter point as people were asking as to why the chapter isn't involved, and my point to merely to point out that they are.
• I agree with you regarding the capability point, but I merely want to point out two fact here, because out capabilities are questioned viz a viz our edit counts, that:

1. Mere judgement of a person's capabilities by only factoring edit count is not a good judgement.
2. I still fail to understand how edit counts can be co-related to conducting outreach. I do believe, we qualify for the minimum requirement easily esp with seasoned editors on-board to guide us.

• Its not about whether Sucheta has asked for a grant or not. I just pointed out that she showed enthusiasm, and it would be nice to see more of such enthusiasm.
• What makes me so sure? Well that's the whole point of the club, only the editors who keep on contributing will remain in the club. If they don't get that passion to edit, they are free to ask us for advice but won't be a formal member. Now, as we can't measure passion, we shall be monitoring their edits and the quality of their edits, and only the active remain as formal members. Hence the whole process is dynamic.

Hope to have earned your two paise. :) --Debastein 11:47, 12 January 2012 (UTC)

Response to a few clarifications

Debastein - thank you for the additional background and for your work in support of these outreach efforts in Pune.

I am not concerned myself about the number of edits of the volunteer organizers or the ability of the organizers to pull off the event in this case, but I still do have a few outstanding concerns about the grant request that should be addressed on this discussion page and in the grant proposal itself:

1. The scale of the event: Can you (or Abishek) provide any insight into the scale of this event? Do you think 100 a realistic number of attendees? Have nearly 100 people registered for the event? Would the organizers consider reducing the scale of the event and what impact would that have on the success of the project?
2. The cost of refreshments: Is there any way to scale back the cost of refreshments in order to reduce the amount requested? To this end, it would be helpful for someone to provide details within the budget as to exactly what will be provided and at what cost.
3. The argument for tshirts: I understand your arguments in favour of more visibility, but I am still not convinced that tshirts would be an effective use of WMF funds considering their high cost (relative to, say, pins). Producing shirts to promote your club is an excellent idea, but I would recommend that the students themselves fund these shirts (at least in part) because I simply don't think that funding tshirts for every student Wikipedian worldwide who asks for them is realistic.
4. The scope of this grant request: I still need Abishek to provide additional details on the budget items I mentioned earlier: stationary and other activities. If they aren't associated with the upcoming outreach event, I would recommend seeking funding for them in another request, as it is unlikely that WMF will fund a request to sustain the existence of a student organization over the course of a year. (WMF is however happy to consider funding one or several individual projects.)

Wolliff 19:01, 12 January 2012 (UTC)

Reply

• I have answered all queries in Latest Post. AbhiSuryawanshi 18:25, 19 January 2012 (UTC)

My response

Debastein, I never mentioned edit counts. I merely mentioned edit quality. That also includes uploading meetup photos to the commons. I'm not against anything here, but I just want to know why you are not contributing yourself. ----Rsrikanth05 (talk) 06:21, 14 January 2012 (UTC)

Update about Club!

40 People participated in two day workshop!It was conducted for free of cost. (P.S Everyone paid for their own refreshment and food.)

Wikipedia Club Pune Workshop Attendees

Experienced English Wikipedia Administrator Srikeit conducted sessions on Basic of Wikipedia and referencing.Feedback of All sessions conducted is Public.Please feel free to read it here.

Workshop

Apart from training,Experienced Wikipedians and Club team Members worked on different projects through Club.

Pronunciations

Pratik ,One of Club Team Member worked on the pronunciations of cities in India, preferably Maharashtra.
He has added more than 60 pronunciations to Wikimedia Commons.
All the audio files are added to Pronunciation of names of cities and villages in India category.

Articles about Sport

Abhinav worked on Sports Article,and he developed whole article about prominent Cricket Player VVS Lakshman on Hindi Wikipedia He also created List of Indian hockey captains in Olympics Hockey is National Game of India,and having less coverage on all Wikipedia's. He is working on improving those articles.

Facts about Workshop and Launch

• It was organized for free of cost,without charging anyone
• Only Experienced Wikipedians conducted training session.
• 85% were Girl Editors for Workshop!
• Attendees managed their own refreshment/food for both days.
• Full attendance was on both days! All people were present on both days.
• Workshop attendee's also celebrated Wikipedia 11th Anniversary Celebrations.

Regarding Grant and Controversies

No Refreshment,And No T-Shirts from Grant! That was major cost associated with launch. We already skipped that.

Thank You

Thank you everyone for support and suggestions. Its not over! It just started. We look forward for continuous support and suggestions, so we can learn from all of you.

Keep Inspiring! AbhiSuryawanshi 05:14, 16 January 2012 (UTC)

A couple of concerns

I'm not commenting on the grant itself, and the goals of the club are laudable. But I do have a couple of concerns. For one thing, it is hosted in English Wikipedia project space, and has begun bannering articles. However, projects on English Wikipedia are not private clubs whose members must pass a selection process, and they do not have membership limits. They are also expected to communicate on-wiki and on-record, not via facebook, etc. and they don't advertise as one of their joining benefits "Receive Exclusive Wikipedia swag". I would suggest that if anything this club should be hosted on the Outreach wiki like the other student clubs.

Secondly, perhaps Wikipedia talk:Wikipedia Club Pune hasn't been properly updated, but you have 7 mentors listed, of which only 3 are experienced enough to serve as such in my view. The remaining 4 are too inexperienced: 76 edits to article space (also listed as a member of the "core team" who will designing the workshop models); 88 to article space; 210 edits to article space; 261 edits to article space. There are only 12 actual members listed there but nearly 30 are listed at Category:Wikipedians in Wikipedia Club Pune. With only 3 truly experienced mentors, this represents a ratio of 10 members to each mentor. Already far more than originally envisaged and this banner appears to be recruiting yet more. Voceditenore 13:17, 16 January 2012 (UTC)

• Thanks for notice, Will update Project Page accordingly. AbhiSuryawanshi 18:22, 19 January 2012 (UTC)

Waste of time

For me this aproach is a bit strange, but I think we should be open for various initiatives and evaluate the results. The discusion over structure, effectivenes and fitting to core Wikipedia values should rather be continued on Wikipedia, not here. Here - if you can be succesfull without WMF support - why do you need this support so desparetely? Try to continue on your own... and apply in the future for something bigger. In all this disussion there is more than 10700 words - as you applied for 243 USD it gives 2,2 cents per word :-) Total waste of your and other contributors time IMHO :-) Polimerek 14:32, 19 January 2012 (UTC)

• It wasnt waste of time for me "at-least".
  We received more valuable suggestions and support (which was more important than money),Also it was great thing to learn that world is balanced with extremely negative people along with amazing positive people Who Assume Good Faith.  :)

AbhiSuryawanshi 18:21, 19 January 2012 (UTC)

Scope of Grant.

Thanks to all who gave their inputs for Club Launch.

We are going to continue Club Activities with existing support only. Sorry, If someone's time wasted because of this whole exercise. I learned so many things because of it,means alot to me.

Keep Supporting,Keep Inspiring! AbhiSuryawanshi 18:52, 19 January 2012 (UTC)