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Community Wishlist Survey 2023/Admins and patrollers/Stop-time blocks

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Stop-time blocks

  • Problem: Blocks are currently all running time ... they are set, and run the designated time, at the end of which they expire.

    This does not always deter vandals/disruptors blocked for the first or sometimes second time, as they can simply wait out the block, then come back and start right up again, perhaps getting away with more this next time. Eventually we have to block for longer amounts of time, which isn't fair, really, to other people on those IPs who might want to edit constructively or create accounts. Especially on ranges.

  • Proposed solution: Allow an admin to set a block to be tolled or, as we put it in the sport I officiate, "stop-time" (i.e., the normal arrangement for sports played in clocked time periods): Time on the block would run only as long as the IP or user was actively reading (and in the latter case, logged in) the wiki in question. By "actively reading", I mean clicking on links, viewing new pages, something that could easily be determined technically (I don't know how, it's not my department, but it seems from what I do know that it would be possible to monitor this and distinguish between a user looking at different pages (for what would be varying, yet realistic, amounts of times for a human to have looked at them) and a user trying to fool such a block with a script that just keeps refreshing the same small page over and over every second).

    These wouldn't have to be long periods of time, maybe 50 hours at the most (perhaps you'd want to go longer at places like educational institutions, where there's bound to be a higher amount of page viewing) to get their point across. It would make the magnitude of what they have done abundantly clear to those affected.

    We could also set these in multiples of five, independently of the clock.

    Since theoretically this could make a 20-hour block indefinite if the editor just gives up trying, admins (who would be able to see how much wikitime remains on the block) would of course have the discretion to lift these blocks if they had gone on for far longer than they would reasonably be expected to.

  • Who would benefit: Everyone. Productive editors would have less vandalism/disruption to deal with, admins might have to do less blocking and the admin work that comes with that, and prospective editors who just happened to pick the wrong school to go to would face less obstacles in making the kind of trial edits that could get them started.
  • More comments:
  • Phabricator tickets:
  • Proposer: Daniel Case (talk) 03:55, 5 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Discussion

I appreciate that you're trying to come up with a solution, but I think this could be problematic. If I understood correctly, I as an admin would basically be able to "force" a user to spend an X amount of time online, on Wikipedia, clicking on links and so on, or else that person would not be able to edit again? Most of the vandals are probably less than 15 years old, and I would much rather want to tell them to go outside and/or do your homework instead of reading random pages on Wikipedia. Also, I'm pretty sure that letting admins see how much time someone spends on Wikipedia is against the privacy policy. -kyykaarme (talk) 10:00, 11 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

You could set this up so admins wouldn't be able to see the exact time left ... perhaps just an indicator that would go from red to yellow to green as the block progressed. Daniel Case (talk) 02:44, 12 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • I don't see how this is going to be implemented. First, logging "minutes spent on Wikipedia" requires some privacy issues. Secondly, the block will be unbearable and too long for all editors. Let's consider 24 hours block, a block that is given as a "first offense". A person averaged 4 minutes on every visit. Let's say people visit Wikipedia 3 times a day, which goes for 12 minutes every day. Then, for 24 hours block, it will take 120 days for the editor to be unblocked. I usually spend around 4 hours per week reading Wikipedia outside editing, which is way above the average user. It will take me 45 days for a 24-hour block to expire. If you want stricter/stronger punishment, a longer block is an easier solution. SunDawn (talk) 12:34, 11 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    You'd go with a shorter block than 24 hours. Maybe 10. Daniel Case (talk) 23:51, 11 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    Also, remember, blocks are not supposed to be punitive. We are getting to the point where in some situations (range blocks, block evasions using IPs) admins are increasingly opting for longer blocks on the first offense. This is going to hurt us with some prospective editors who may want to start an account, find that their school or whatever was blocked six months ago and will be blocked for another six months when they can't, and then just give up on ever getting involved. Daniel Case (talk) 02:44, 12 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Voting

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